Belegarth
http://board.belegarth.com/

Armor Rules
http://board.belegarth.com/viewtopic.php?f=107&t=14552
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Author:  Stahlgrim [ Thu Aug 27, 2009 11:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Armor Rules

# 2 here is my reasoning as anyone who wears chain can atest the weight of it falls mostly on the shoulders, if you wear a tight belt you can get some of it onto the hips ,but I digress,Plate is attached to different areas of the body; greaves on the legs,vambraces on the arms, ect.so the weight is distributed better and the wearer feels like they are hauling less weight around. at least thats my experience.ymmv.

Author:  D-9-13 [ Thu Aug 27, 2009 5:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Armor Rules

Arrakis wrote:
Tevas, cotton haks, and T-tunics don't grant an in-game advantage, nor do they appear to. THAT's the difference, jackass.


Thats why the discussion was originally about the description of ARMOUR MATERIALS being period...thus the discussion of why clothing was not required to be period... read the thread to figure out the real point of the discussion, even if it is old.......it's always nice when someone can step up the maturity level of a discussion...thanks for being the one to take it in a nice downward direction Arrakis...makes the world a better place for everyone... :unsure:

Author:  Spike [ Thu Aug 27, 2009 11:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Armor Rules

This thread was useful almost 4 years ago. Now it's just douchey.

Author:  Wence [ Sat Jul 17, 2010 10:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Armor Rules

I'm an avid armourer, and I would like to put in a plug that I actually like most of these rules - the only thing I think is that plate ought to give a little more of an advantage, but that would complicate things. I like these rules because they define the parameters I can work in, giving me elements of design to work with. As a designer I hate complete freedom because I don't know what to do with it. Any limitations by their nature define what one can do with designs, and allow someone to creatively apply them. That's my two cents!

Author:  No'Vak [ Sat Jul 17, 2010 10:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Armor Rules

Oh god.

Author:  Thorondor [ Sun Jul 18, 2010 9:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Armor Rules

Image

Author:  SerisFoxglove [ Mon Oct 18, 2010 11:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Armor Rules

Odd for my first post in the society however it is somethingof interest to me having rad most of the by-laws of the armor rules.

Personally I couldnt care less about the materials of armor so long as it provides equal protection because they didnt have rubber-foam swords in what now everyone is referring to as a "period".
However they did use practice weapons by wrapping wasters with down and cloth so same difference.

Also, As for the SCA reference earlier in this thread, I also have fought there and it does make a difference, my main reason for using plastic armor was because it was a cheap material for lamellar armor.
, steel etc
I say this much. Do Strike Testing with real steel weapons and see which material you would rather wear.
Also, modern clothing does make a difference in fighting as in this time you all are referring to as "period" most clothing was actually made from wool in europe, not cotton. Silk has always been a common thin for asia, however so has cotton, but it was styled very, very differently.

As for the standard armor rules, do STRIKE TESTING on the base materials (plywood, steel etc) for specifics. This is what we did in the MCRS in Pocatello, which I already know has no basis in Bel, but stfu and listen for a bit. it helped make rules that made sense.
Also, think about changing some of these rules because of the economy being the way it is. think of plastic armor providing a soak 1 hit instead of soak 2 for plate.

seriously, you would find alot more people willing to play.

Author:  Caleidah [ Mon Oct 18, 2010 11:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Armor Rules

SerisFoxglove wrote:
Odd for my first post in the society however it is somethingof interest to me having rad most of the by-laws of the armor rules.

Personally I couldnt care less about the materials of armor so long as it provides equal protection because they didnt have rubber-foam swords in what now everyone is referring to as a "period".
However they did use practice weapons by wrapping wasters with down and cloth so same difference.

Also, As for the SCA reference earlier in this thread, I also have fought there and it does make a difference, my main reason for using plastic armor was because it was a cheap material for lamellar armor.
, steel etc
I say this much. Do Strike Testing with real steel weapons and see which material you would rather wear.
Also, modern clothing does make a difference in fighting as in this time you all are referring to as "period" most clothing was actually made from wool in europe, not cotton. Silk has always been a common thin for asia, however so has cotton, but it was styled very, very differently.

As for the standard armor rules, do STRIKE TESTING on the base materials (plywood, steel etc) for specifics. This is what we did in the MCRS in Pocatello, which I already know has no basis in Bel, but stfu and listen for a bit. it helped make rules that made sense.
Also, think about changing some of these rules because of the economy being the way it is. think of plastic armor providing a soak 1 hit instead of soak 2 for plate.

seriously, you would find alot more people willing to play.

If you don't like it, oops, too bad. "Period," for anything but armor, has always referred to a style or appearance. Yeah, they didn't use cotton. We have access to it, though, and might as well make use of cheap, lightweight materials in that regard.

The reason that plastic is not allowed for armor is that armor is not a requirement. Those who want to wear it have to go through a few more rings to make their stuff legal. Is it a pain that someone can't walk on with SCA picklebarrel gear? Maybe for them, but not for everyone else with the benefits that their armor gives them. Given that there is no distinction between armor types (meaning ALL forms of armor only soak one hit), it would necessitate the implementation of a whole new chain of rules to make your lovely little idea work.

Less QQ, more making stuff to fit our rule set.

Author:  Derian [ Tue Oct 19, 2010 10:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Armor Rules

Also, keep in mind that we're not building a game from the ground up here. Belegarth has been around for a decade and is heavily based on Dagorhir, which dates back to the mid-70s.

Author:  Thorondor [ Tue Oct 19, 2010 5:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Armor Rules

I've gotta agree...why listen when we're not building from the ground up? Fit our rules or fit another's. Don't try to change the thousands of people who play this game in your first two posts.

Edit: removed part about necroing since the thread is stickied

Author:  Derian [ Tue Oct 19, 2010 5:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Armor Rules

It's not really considered necroing when the post is stickied.

Author:  Thorondor [ Tue Oct 19, 2010 6:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Armor Rules

Holy cow, this is stickied? Didn't even see that...oh well, off to edit my other post.

Author:  Darkspawn leader [ Tue Oct 19, 2010 6:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Armor Rules

what about motorcross armor
is that legal

Author:  Thorondor [ Tue Oct 19, 2010 6:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Armor Rules

If you read the BOW...or this thread...you'd realize that your armor needs to be period to count as armor. If you had medical need, you could wear motocross armor as protective gear, but that would be a really weird case to be able to motocross and fight and need that much protective gear.

Author:  Dondarian [ Tue Oct 19, 2010 6:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Armor Rules

Darkspawn leader wrote:
what about motorcross armor
is that legal


Did you even read this thread?

Author:  SerisFoxglove [ Wed Dec 15, 2010 2:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Armor Rules

I understand that we are not building a game from the ground up, however I have noticed that thigs change with the times. Everything does. Admittedly i am suggesting a radical change of the rules, however this would make armor more beneficial towards the drawbacks. For example if you expend the time and finances to craft a suit of full plate armor and only get a soak 1 hit from it wouldnt you be rather upset? I mean that would upset just about anyone that I know. Admittedly armor isnt required, and since it only grants a soak 1 hit why wouldnt it be allowed to be made of non-period materials (BTW in order to be truly period all armor would have to be made of either spring steel or iron, both of which are expensive.)

Author:  Embara Cayosin [ Wed Dec 15, 2010 3:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Armor Rules

Thorondor wrote:
Image

Author:  SerisFoxglove [ Wed Dec 15, 2010 3:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Armor Rules

Embara Cayosin wrote:
Thorondor wrote:
Image



Post is stickied, thus is an open discussion

Author:  Caleidah [ Wed Dec 15, 2010 5:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Armor Rules

SerisFoxglove wrote:
I understand that we are not building a game from the ground up, however I have noticed that thigs change with the times. Everything does. Admittedly i am suggesting a radical change of the rules, however this would make armor more beneficial towards the drawbacks. For example if you expend the time and finances to craft a suit of full plate armor and only get a soak 1 hit from it wouldnt you be rather upset? I mean that would upset just about anyone that I know. Admittedly armor isnt required, and since it only grants a soak 1 hit why wouldnt it be allowed to be made of non-period materials (BTW in order to be truly period all armor would have to be made of either spring steel or iron, both of which are expensive.)


You hit the exact reason why your reasoning wouldn't work in your own post. Armor is not required. Because of this, we can be more restrictive in what people use for it. Why? Since it is not required, provides a tangible benefit and can still be cheesed to fit within the letter of the law and still not provide much, if any, resistance, we require that it be a "period" material. The reason that it does not upset the people that make metal plate in our game is that they know what they are getting into when they make or order it. It might anger cross gamers, yes, but we conform to their rules when we play their game and can reasonably expect the same of them.

As far as "proper" period materials, you will note once again that "period" is based on a style or motif. In this instance, "period" is a setup that is close to what was realistic but not unattainable by modern standards. The leather and metal are easily attainable but require some work to be usable. Once again, armor is a straight up benefit. We are not the SCA. There is absolutely no required equipment to play Belegarth, though common decency is encouraged. For that reason, there is no reason to allow any materials that would allow for armor rules to be stretched even thinner. Thus, things like plastic armor and azon mail will continue to be illegal until the flow of the game changes more dramatically.

In the future, I would still recommend logging in a bit more frequently to keep up with your own posts. To the people that posted "thread necro," come on.

Author:  Forkbeard [ Wed Dec 15, 2010 5:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Armor Rules

No. Discusion over. We will not change the rules.
It isn't going to happen, We don't discuss it becuase the people who make these decisions are long etablished realm leaders and very experienced players. We, having been around in the foam fighting comunity since it's very inception have a great apreciation for the way time change and rules change with them.
We also understand the nature of rule systems in mass game play, that is battle with over 100-200 people. A game with multilevel armor points is a totaly differnt kind of game from belegarth. You are obviously to **** ignorant to get that.
We do not want to play a larp combat game like amygard. We sure ad **** don't want to start with weapons acting realistic, which is the next discusion after multi level armor.
You should come to the big city and play some gay LARP, there's tons of 'em here. You can be a 100 hit point super palidin or whatever there.
But here, we keep it simple and elegant. I hit you, you die.
Easy Squeazy
FB

Author:  Derian [ Fri Dec 17, 2010 3:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Armor Rules

One thing that many people don't consider when thinking about our armor rules is that the benefit of wearing armor is not insignificant. People often say something along the lines of, "It's only one extra hit!"

True, but one hit is very significant in our game. Wearing armor doubles the number of strikes required to disable the target zone. Are you sure you want to tell me that's not significant?

Author:  Purgatory [ Fri Nov 11, 2011 3:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Armor Rules

so i feel like im coming in a little too late but i did have a question and didnt want to start another thread.

so i have misunderstood teh armor horribly and i have a few questions now that the thread didnt answer or i wasnt sure of

first is copper period. if wanted to do different pieces with it if itd be allowed. or what about brass too?

second i have a pair of leather boots.. no its not the 3/16 leather its fashion but they come to my knee- would that count as leather armor? yes it looks like real leather but i dont think it is.

third, i wasnt clear on the chain mail rings.. can they be the aluminum? or was that what was meant when yalls said aluminum armor was not legal?

and last about the helm.. were a viking group and the viking helms cover the nose and what not (http://www.armourarchive.org/patterns/n ... pangen.jpg) so how do i go about doing that with out having too much metal on the head? any suggestions would be nice.
im new at this armor stuff and our group is doing a lot of leather which i can do ok but some were asking about metals and how to convert sports "armor" to legal armor

Author:  Thorondor [ Fri Nov 11, 2011 3:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Armor Rules

Copper, brass, bronze = legal
Aluminum = illegal
Leather that's not 3/16" thick in 1 or 2 layers = not armor.
Leather that's not real leather = not armor.

Author:  Purgatory [ Sat Nov 12, 2011 3:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Armor Rules

3.6.2. A Combatant wearing plastic safety equipment is treated as leather Armor for grappling purposes only.
it doesnt say it cant show. so why does the BoW say it has to be period yet i read farther and there's this... im confused again can someone clear it up for me?

Author:  Forkbeard [ Sat Nov 12, 2011 6:14 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Armor Rules

It means that if you are wearing hard plastic knees or elbows, or like a motocross chests plate, you are restricted to grappling people in Leather, chain or plate armor. You may NOT grapple people who are unarmored.

Plastic safety equipment should always be covered unless it is imposible and you NEED it to fight. But I've never seen anything that could not be covered by garb.
FB

Author:  Thorondor [ Sat Nov 12, 2011 9:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Armor Rules

accursedoffenrir wrote:
3.6.2. A Combatant wearing plastic safety equipment is treated as leather Armor for grappling purposes only.


I underlined the reason that this rule is in there. Fork covered the details, but I wanted to point out the last part of the rule. Every rule needs to be fully read, don't just read the first half of the rule and expect to fully understand it.

Author:  Purgatory [ Sun Nov 20, 2011 9:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Armor Rules

so new question armor geniuses! what about fur....it has leather under it and period.. is it legal armor .. we are vikings and all and its just leather with soft fuzzies on it.

Author:  Arrakis [ Sat Nov 26, 2011 1:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Armor Rules

You will be unable to find armor-grade-leather-backed furred hides.

Author:  No'Vak [ Sun Nov 27, 2011 5:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Armor Rules

Take your fur. Put it on leather armor. Bam.

Author:  SeanDarkskul [ Tue Sep 25, 2012 2:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Armor Rules

I need clarification regarding the bit on scale armor. my armor is all scales so it fits the requirement for coverage, its also real leather. most of the scales are just short of 3/16 but its is double layered everywhere but the edges (neckhole, bottom of cuirass, edge of sleeves, etc.) so basically all but a 3/4 of an inch strip around the edges is thick enough. is this armor?

Author:  Derian [ Tue Sep 25, 2012 7:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Armor Rules

If your description is accurate, then yes.

Author:  SeanDarkskul [ Tue Sep 25, 2012 3:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Armor Rules

ok thanks alot derian, I plan on attending samhain and dont want to carry 10 pounds or so of armor only to have it fail.

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