Wooden Armor

[Spike]

Even worth considering play testing?

[Soo Ma Tai]

I think it would be cool if done right, and I like the idea. If I felt it was safe I would pass it.

[Cib]

From my understanding of that issue is that the rules would be to complex. The Rules are supposed to be safe in-spite of stupid people. And also simple. Wood doesn't allow for both.

[Claymore]

Not exactly a realistic material. Historically, I can't think of any culture that used it. Possibly because the wood treatments back then was tar, and that wood has an express weakness to fire. It's a lot of effort for something that is going to be hard to keep together in combat. Aside from high quality craftmanship with good quality woods, it will probably break down and splinter appart in a short period of time.

That in itself is another weakness to play testing it right away. How dangerous can larger splints of wood become when they break.

[Sicarian]

Safety issues.

[Arrakis]

Not explicitly illegal. Build it safe and pretty and I'd bet most armor checkers would pass it.

Wood lamellar, wood segmentata, wooden bracers, wooden greaves, wooden pauldrons, wicker armor...

[Derian]

I think a wood & leather lamellar might be alright.

If one used sufficiently thick & sturdy wood, I really doubt there would be any safety issues. Certainly no more than a suit of metal lamellar.

[To'Gur]

the japenese wove bamboo at times, so it can be done.

[Big King Jimmy]

Spike, I would think you would know better. tsk tsk.

[Porthos]

There were some small African tribes that used wooden armor, mostly for hunting as some form of protection. Granted, I think they turned it into a plywood of sorts with animal fats, and I believe used a hardwood for it (my gut says the professor said ebony, but I'm not sure.). I know they used small ivory pieces as well in it, and used some sort of bark as an outside covering for it.

[Davit]

From what I remember as well many many many layers of lacquer were used in most cases of wood armor....

[Oisin]

A well-done armour made of laminated and laquered hardwood? Maybe, sure, but that's one of those things where if you don't do it right, it shouldn't be passed, and doing it right will take far more effort than making some other type of armour . . . which is great if you want a cool project, but it'll be expensive and time consuming (seen the price of hardwood lately) and anything less would almost certainly be unsafe or otherwise unacceptable.

If you were going to do it, though, making them into a form of lamellar would be the way to do it. About the only way to do bone armour that's actually effective in combat, as well.

[Mekoot Rowan]

The trouble as I see it, having watched many discussions similar to this, is not from high quality wooden armor that someone put the time and effort into creating and making look good. You run into problems when Joe Noob looks at that handcrafted ebony and laquer armor and then runs home to make the same thing out of plywood and glue.

It really has less to do with safety than it does with setting a precedent that we'd might then be expected to stick to.

[OldSmoke]

I say go ahead and make a set of ebony armor.

You best have a strong back and be in good shape though. That's some heavy ****. And some extremely expensive armor. The 2 types of ebony I can get my hands on run anywhere around $40 b/ft. And if you're not around an exotic hardwood supplier, it's going to cost you a couple arms and legs to get it shipped because of the weight.

[Kirethorn]

I'm not sure whether or not to post it here because I wouldn't be using it in any Belegarth event, but how would masonite do? A single layer dosn't last very long (against wooden weapons at least) but one thing I love about it is that adding an extra layer dosn't double the strength, it squares it.

[Mekoot Rowan]

Don't forget that all belegarth armor must be "period materials." Thus wood might be allowed, but masonite not so much.

[Outhro Youkker]

I am thinking how it would take a powerful blow.
-Metal bends and dents when struck realy realy hard. If it breaks, Something is very very wrong.
-PVC snaps with a clean edge that is not jagged
-Wood will snap and spinter.
-bamboo breaks with its long strangs but no pointy splinters

I wouldent body check, shield bash, grapple anybody with wood armor. And if the weapon snags on a rough edge, it might rip cover and could eat into the foam.

[Arrakis]

Outhro, I don't think they're talking about wooden armor made out of unfinished plywood.

Well-made (read: passing) wood armor should be well-finished, totally smooth on all edges, sealed, and safe. If you're making wooden plates larger than lamellar, and you're worried about them breaking under impact, you could face them with thin leather. Truly, I think that stout wooden plates, say 3/8" thick hardwood, wouldn't splinter under foam weapon impacts or falling/grappling stresses.

[Forkbeard]

The Japanese used wood in some Samuria armor peices. THey laquered the **** out it so it wouldn't rot or splinter.
I can't beleive I'm the first one to say that.
I would totally pass wood armor if it was safe.
FB

[Claymore]

Well, that's because I always used the links in the belegarth armor forum for information regauding armor. And the site that I used for inspiration and ideas was http://www.sengokudaimyo.com/katchu/katchu.html. And right on the front page...

One thing that needs to be addressed first is probably my biggest button: Japanese armour was never made of wood or bamboo. It was either leather, steel, or a combination of the two. Don’t even ask me.

and so far, in my research, I have to agree. I have yet to find an actual historic wooden samurai armor.

I don't deny that he might be wrong though, the early jappeneese culture was very tribal. Nor would I deny the idea that forkbeard mentioned would work or not. After all, early laquers were thick and hardened strong. But I cannot find evidence of any culture using wooden armor. Probably because the suits wouldn't protect very well, or degraded to a point where it's impossible to tell.

Still, I would like to see someone make a solid atempt. After all, there are many solid objects made of wood. Barrels, drums, even bows seem to hold up to greater strains of outdor life. I guess it would be a matter of making sure you create a finished and sanded piece, as well as using a good grade of wood.

[Outhro Youkker]

I am imagening drift wood, chunks of tree with bark, etc.

To carve wood for armor would have to be very very thick and well made. I still imagen the acidental pileup and the chest piece cracks down the middle

[Cib]

But I cannot find evidence of any culture using wooden armor. Probably because the suits wouldn't protect very well,

I would think a well made wood armors main strength would be against arrows. Or does that not make sense?

[Oisin]

Cib: That makes a lot of sense, and I agree. That being said, I have no clue whether it's true or not, it may be another example of common sense leading the non-materials-scientist astray. And even against arrows, I'm not sure how well it would protect against anything but a glancing blow. And, really, I'd have to think that it would be fairly stiff and encumbering.

Outhro: You're way off about both PVC and bamboo. When bamboo breaks, it splinters really, really badly, and the splinters are so sharp and so hard to remove cleanly, that the ancient Chinese used bamboo splinters as a torture method. PVC, while not quite so bad, can break with some really sharp edges. Sometimes it breaks cleanly, this is true, but at the right (or wrong, depending on how you think of it) angle, it can have a sharp jagged edge that could do some major damage to people, especially eyes or other soft targets, but would be able to cut skin anywhere, and deeply. I've seen people cut before, although never badly, by broken pvc cores.

Also, we're talking about a refined, well-made lamellar or similar of wooden plates, not driftwood and chunks of treebark roped or glue together. That's called camouflage, not armour. ;-)

[Arrakis]

Hmmm.

Bracers made of wooden rods (oiled hand-carved hardwood limb segments preferred) connected with a series of jute or hemp bindings would be pretty sexy and pretty * effective, I believe.

[Jeggrim]

Hmmm.

Bracers made of wooden rods (oiled hand-carved hardwood limb segments preferred) connected with a series of jute or hemp bindings would be pretty sexy and pretty * effective, I believe.

I would dig it.

Just because something doesn't have a "historical" foundation, shouldn't exclude it from Belegarth use. I mean, C'mon, I'm a freaking orc! Not historic at all.

In fact, *most* of the Units have no historical basis whatsoever. I could defiantly see a forest dwelling people using stone, wood, hemp,vine, bark, and reeds as armor.

Historically, people used the materials at hand for their tools of war. Look at the differences between cultures such as the Mongols, the Aztec/Mayan, Zulu, Western Europe, Native American, and Asian styles of weapons and armor. They each are dominated by the type of materials readily available , factoring in the common technology available as well.

Personally, I think a well done piece of wooden armor would be amazing. I say go for it, and see what happens. If nothing else, you have a unique set of armor, that you could at least wear for feast/off the field.

--Jegg

[The Lost Celt]

Feast:/off the field being key point, on a local level I think it *could* be done, on the national level hell no - the simple problem being stated before you really have to know what the armourer is thinking on something like that.

I'll level with you, I love the concept of bone, wood, and horn armours - the bamboo thing is a myth btw, leather was mainly used, but anyhow...

simple truth is bone, wood, and horn all have different properties that make them undesirable as armour, (cost or safety) and the builder has to recognize how this material behaves under stress and account for that. Now on the local level this can be communicated, on that national level it cannot.

For example, I believe both bone and wood *could* be done for this sport in lamella or scale format only, both are prone to "dry rot" and shattering, both of these products splinter when shattered and I personally believe that your responsibilities as an armourer are not only protecting yourself but your opponents. - Now if I were checking a person wearing either of these armours I'm not only thinking (as a builder) how his/her movment in the armour can affect that potential failure, but also what the builder has done to present such events. Sealing for moisture is an obvious choice, but it gets down to the direction of the grain and length of the grain in the product (most obvious example being wood - oak vs. pine)

So yeah, if you wanna do wood armour cool, but expect is more as a labor of love as opposed to spending $80 for a roll of 12oz hide at tandy or whatnot Also expect to provide a sample piece and a hammer to prove it's affectiveness - the newbies who copycat your idea without those advanced ideas are my worst fear however, because of the danger they pose to us and themselves

so yeah, food for thought,

Incedentally, I've played with the notion of rawhide, horn, and theringlords's scales for this sport- for cost and labor vs. durability none of these have held up vs. leather and metal, and the ringlords scales were just plain unsafe for this game.

[Hardscrabble]

if you want something that looks, sounds, and pretty much feels like wood, overboil some thick leather. you get about double the thickness at the cost of about half of the area. and really, you need a saw to cut it at this point.

[Jeggrim]

Astrix? Really? Wow...Long time....

[kree]

doesn't the BOW state that it must be made of tanned animal hide though

and of course period metals?

you have to think about possible splintering

and it would rub like a 400 pound mans thighs.....

[Big King Jimmy]

As you check this post, realize that A: it's a resurected topic, and B: the BoW problems have already been discusses.

[kree]

my bad, i tend to not read what was previously posted

the previous post by me was just my overall view from my past research and experience

dont nbust my balllllssssss maneee

[PhotoJoe]

So, here I am bring back an old thread from the dead.

Was it resolved if wood armor would be allowed or not?

If there was still a question about it being legitimate armor in historic times I would like to refer you to http://www.fioredeiliberi.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=3461 for a brief description of some First People's/Native American's useage of wooden armor.

If the book of war does indeed limit armor to tanned animal hides and period metals then this is still an interesting historical tidbit to be shared.

[Forkbeard]

Are you going to MAKE wood armor?
If not, then shut the hell up, please. It's a dumb idea.
FB

[Tobia Blackthorn]

I made wooden lamellar once. It ends up so heavy, and its honestly not very strong, not when compared to my hardened Leather. It was also a lot harder to make sure it fit, at least, that is my experience.