Leather Scale Chest Piece (Help wanted)

[Kraesh]

So I have three shoulders of 3/32" leather and was thinking what to do with it. So, after thinking for a bit I got down to either making lamellar or scale mail so that when two layers were put together it would be armor legal. Then after thinking for a bit I figured the scale mail would fit my persona history a bit better than lamellar.

After looking at how to make scale online I found that most scales that people use are metal and have large holes in the top making for a thin wall of metal on the edges (seen here). I was wondering, if I were to make the scales leather would taking my armor into combat wouldn't the metal rings pull through the leather and tear the scale? If so then what would be the best way to fix said problem? (i.e. Hardening the leather, placing the hole lower in the scale, both, etc.)

And last of all, what brand of dyes would you suggest for dying leather black?

Thanks for the help,
-Kraesh

Edit: Also, what would be the best way to cut the wholes out of the scales. I was thinking of using a drill but for some reason that just doesn't seem like it would work out right.

[tyorl]

I recently just finished a scale mail torso made from leather. The problemss you mentioned can be avoided by simply creating a a semi-form fitting tunic of upholstery leather. This is hot as hell, takes care of the ripping problem. then onto this backing you rivet the scales on, each with two rivets, making sure they overlap evenly. Starting from the bottom work your way up to the top. Keep in mind how your arm moves and cut the base accordingly. Once you finish riveting them on you will want to decide whether you want to buckle the sides, or lace them. I laced mine because the straps for the buckles must be riveted onto a rigid surface to be effective. I used eyeletsfor the holes and each lace is individual instead of one long one on each side.

The dye I use is fiebrings oil dye, but its slightly more expensive then spirit dye. I use it because I think it gives better coverage. Just a tip, but since you are going to need a minimum of 150 scales if you make them big(ie. 2"x3") so using rapid rivets speeds up the process a lot. It is a long project, but if you do it right it looks pretty cool. Good luck!

[No'Vak]

Clicky.

A leather hole punch, for the holes.

[Old Horse]

Like Tyorl mentioned, use some backing material (in this case thin leather) to rivet the scales into.

I suppose you haven't cut the scales yet? If you look at the top row on the brown chest piece, you can see they cut the row of scales in one piece, they are joined at the top.
This would probably be easier and cheaper to make (way less rivets).

[Kraesh]

I recently just finished a scale mail torso made from leather. The problemss you mentioned can be avoided by simply creating a a semi-form fitting tunic of upholstery leather. This is hot as hell, takes care of the ripping problem. then onto this backing you rivet the scales on, each with two rivets, making sure they overlap evenly. Starting from the bottom work your way up to the top. Keep in mind how your arm moves and cut the base accordingly. Once you finish riveting them on you will want to decide whether you want to buckle the sides, or lace them. I laced mine because the straps for the buckles must be riveted onto a rigid surface to be effective. I used eyeletsfor the holes and each lace is individual instead of one long one on each side.

The dye I use is fiebrings oil dye, but its slightly more expensive then spirit dye. I use it because I think it gives better coverage. Just a tip, but since you are going to need a minimum of 150 scales if you make them big(ie. 2"x3") so using rapid rivets speeds up the process a lot. It is a long project, but if you do it right it looks pretty cool. Good luck!

I think I will use this method. Thanks for the advice. I think the scales may a bit smaller than 2"x3", that or they may be around 2"x3.5". I'll find out what I want to do when I start doing the test runs with poster board.

Clicky.

A leather hole punch, for the holes.

I will see if I can get hold of one. This is pretty much the very first leather project I've done ever (excluding the knife pouch that I "made" at scout camp. The instructor practically made me watch him make it. ) so I don't have many tools. Also, I thought I might need a bigger whole but I'll probably be able to find a good hole punch.

Like Tyorl mentioned, use some backing material (in this case thin leather) to rivet the scales into.

I suppose you haven't cut the scales yet? If you look at the top row on the brown chest piece, you can see they cut the row of scales in one piece, they are joined at the top.
This would probably be easier and cheaper to make (way less rivets).

I don't know if I want to cut the scales out in one big strip. I'll be using quick rivets so if a rivet pops or if the leather rips in combat I can just replace the one scale rather than the entire strip. I think that's actually one of the main advantages of why people preferred scale in the medieval ages wasn't it?

Thanks for all the help everybody. Any more advice is welcome, I don't know how soon I'll be getting to work on it, hopefully I can finish it by Chaos.

-Kraesh

[Embara Cayosin]

I don't know if I want to cut the scales out in one big strip. I'll be using quick rivets so if a rivet pops or if the leather rips in combat I can just replace the one scale rather than the entire strip. I think that's actually one of the main advantages of why people preferred scale in the medieval ages wasn't it?
-Kraesh

from my experience the fewer rivets you use the better. once they are set they are more than likely going to stay. the line method looks the strongest rather than having every scale individual (don't take me at saying you should only use 2 or three per line. you should use 1 rivet every 2-4 inches). it will have fewer stress points in the piece which lead to tearing, ripping and ruining of hard work and less and easier maintenance . if your still not sure on its durability you could use these instead http://www.tandyleatherfactory.com/home ... =Product_4. i have personally never used them but they look stronger and the way they are attached they will hardly ever come off. on the subject of rapid rivets, i used the double cap version when i made my bracers and i haven't lost a single rivet that i didn't know i botched up wile installing.

[Derian]

Don't use quick rivets, they're terrible.

If you use copper rivets and set them properly, they'll never pop. Similarly, if you're using armor grade leather, it will never tear. Ever.

[Fangesta]

For doing alot of holes...which you will be doing...a drill works just fine. Just make sure you get the hole cleared after drilling. Your hand will give out on you after a while of using a hole punch.

For holes that will still be showing like for lacing use a hole punch. Otherwise for your rivet holes the drill works just fine.

I agree with derian...copper rivets are soooooo much more worth the money and time.

[No'Vak]

But hole punches are so cool.

I mean you get to hit it with a hammer and make loud noises and look like a badass.

[Kraesh]

It's like being a blacksmith but with leather!!! hehe

-Kraesh

[Kraesh]

Don't use quick rivets, they're terrible.

If you use copper rivets and set them properly, they'll never pop. Similarly, if you're using armor grade leather, it will never tear. Ever.

I'm worried about the scales tearing because the leather is half armor grade, it's why I'm making scale, so the layering will make it legal thickness.

-Kraesh

[Derian]

Oh. I wouldn't worry about that either.

6 oz. leather will probably never tear.

[Embara Cayosin]

Oh. I wouldn't worry about that either.

6 oz. leather will probably never tear.

what i was talking about was tearing of the thin layer underneath.

[Kraesh]

Oh. I wouldn't worry about that either.

6 oz. leather will probably never tear.

what i was talking about was tearing of the thin layer underneath.

... Could 6 oz. upholstery be a thought?

If that's a horrible idea just say so, this is my first leatherworking project so I don't know what would be absolutely crap or not.

-Kraesh

[Cade]

Oh. I wouldn't worry about that either.

6 oz. leather will probably never tear.

what i was talking about was tearing of the thin layer underneath.

... Could 6 oz. upholstery be a thought?

If that's a horrible idea just say so, this is my first leatherworking project so I don't know what would be absolutely crap or not.

-Kraesh

Yes its crap...but if you can make it look like armor and not like a leather jacket, im sad to say, its legal. The rules only make a distinction that it needs to look like armor, and that the materials be legal...the make no distinction that the piece must actually function as real armor. So technically if your couch is 6oz leather, you can rip it apart, cut scales, and then sew them so you have 12oz leather overlapping and its perfectly legal.

Would it ever function as real armor? No
Will it protect you from foam weapons? No
Is it legal...Yes.

[Kraesh]

Yes its crap...but if you can make it look like armor and not like a leather jacket, im sad to say, its legal. The rules only make a distinction that it needs to look like armor, and that the materials be legal...the make no distinction that the piece must actually function as real armor. So technically if your couch is 6oz leather, you can rip it apart, cut scales, and then sew them so you have 12oz leather overlapping and its perfectly legal.

Would it ever function as real armor? No
Will it protect you from foam weapons? No
Is it legal...Yes.

I meant to use as the base then use my actual 6 oz. armor leather to make the scales. That way I'll have a 6 oz. upholstery base with to layers of 6 oz. scales that are overlapping riveted to it.

-Kraesh

[Derian]

Unless you already have the materials on hand, spend the money to get the proper materials. You'll thank yourself in the end.

Purchasing sub-par leather won't save you much, if any, money. You'll have to end up throwing it away or never wearing it because it'll look terrible. If you wait for a sale at Tandy you can get a full side of armor grade leather for less than $100 easily. That will probably be enough to fully armor you.

[Kraesh]

I already have the leather. My friend called me one day and said "Hey we found a sale of leather $30 a shoulder and it's armor grade". So I had him buy me three shoulders. Then when he gave it to me it was half as thick as armor grade so now I'm just trying to find something to do with it.

-Kraesh

[Kraesh]

Alright, my friend that gave me the leather is stupid. When he gave it to me he showed me that it was only 3/32" from a spot where it was really thin. I'm also stupid for not checking it myself. I was just cleaning up my foamsmithing area and picked up the leather and it looked just as thick as my bracers, so I remeasured it. Yeah, it's armor grade, there's just one little area where it's half the thickness. I guess I don't need to double it up, I'm probably still going to make scale though, that or I'll just have patches of scales on a normal suit of armor.

-Kraesh

[Cade]

I would do a normal set of armor, and just use scale for the bits that need to flex. So, make like a nice chest piece that covers your chest and shoulders...but then for your stomach, use scale. Something like that.

Leather scale looks great as an accent, but not so much as a full suit.