Chain armor pattern

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Chain armor pattern

Postby Saxavarius » Wed Oct 13, 2010 11:48 pm

I'm new to making chainmail and was wondering about the durability of a pattern i found at http://artofchainmail.com/patterns/japanese/hitoye_gusari.html
It looks like it would take less rings/time/money so I thought it might make chainmail easier to make
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Re: Chain armor pattern

Postby NessiePop » Thu Oct 14, 2010 12:21 am

At first glance, to someone who has never made armor, it seems like you would need much smaller rings than some of the other patterns in order to pass for gap size, which seems like it would cancel out the advantage of not using as many rings as those patterns. But I may be totally wrong. Someone better qualified will come along soon, I'm sure.
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Re: Chain armor pattern

Postby Derian » Thu Oct 14, 2010 12:42 am

You need two sizes of rings for it to work, but yeah, it can work. It's probably less rings and less weight, but in the end, it's not going to be that big of a difference. The main difference is going to be the appearance. If you'd rather have Eastern looking armor, go for an Eastern weave. If you want something European, well, go for a European weave.
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Re: Chain armor pattern

Postby Cib » Thu Oct 14, 2010 12:00 pm

I have made this type before. I love the look and it uses lass rings than a European 4 in 1 weave. Derian is right, you will want 2 sizes of rings for the mail to sit right, and you will need to make sure the sizes of rings is small enough that you cant get your fingers caught in the mail easily.

Of the big differences between this pattern and the European pattern on a finished product are that a European 4 in 1 will be more form fitting and will result in a more one size fits most type armor. The Oriental 4 in 1 is a one size fit one, it doesn't have the same expanding and compressing qualities, if it is to big, it will hang like a big shirt, if it is to small, you will never git in (or if you do, you will never get out).

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Edit: On a side note, chain mail has a way of making you more aware of hits, and of all the weaves this one does so the most IMHO. It stings a lot when hit, you wont have any trouble feeling your shots. If it become to painful, some thick padding can make a world of difference.
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Re: Chain armor pattern

Postby NessiePop » Thu Oct 14, 2010 9:20 pm

That does look really nice. And far less complicated than the euro stuff. i may have just found my next project.
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Re: Chain armor pattern

Postby Saxavarius » Sat Oct 16, 2010 11:55 am

Thanks for the responses
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Re: Chain armor pattern

Postby Cade » Sat Oct 16, 2010 8:15 pm

Yea that pattern will hurt when you are hit...probably why it was never really used as actual armor to my knowledge.

It may take fewer rings, and be a little easier to understand, but a standard European 4-1 weave will take less time. There are two reasons for this.

One: Once you understand how to put together a standard Euro weave, its stupid easy.

Two: One size of rings. You don't need to fabricate two different sizes of ring, and then use them in alternating patterns.

One size of ring, one way to put it together. Its easy, it doesn't hurt as much when you get hit, and its actually armor. If your going to spend the time, i would go with European.
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Re: Chain armor pattern

Postby Cib » Sat Oct 16, 2010 9:48 pm

Having made both kinds, the weave time on the oriental is much faster than the euro, but you are right on the making of rings, that does take more time. Over all, the ring count is significantly less enough as to make the production time much less.

This pattern was usually used to join plates in an articulated way I believe. Due to the oriental nature of the weave, I suspect that it was meant only as minimal protection on joints, particularly as protection against draw cut type attacks and glancing bows. But that is mostly speculation on my limited research, I don't believe anyone is confidently sure where or when it originated or its original intended use.
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Re: Chain armor pattern

Postby Rhajhiin » Sun Oct 17, 2010 1:17 am

Having made both and used both, I would go for Euro if you're looking to wear it on the field. As mentioned before, the oriental 4-1 hurts more when struck and does not have the same mobility. Cib is right about the utilization of the Oriental weave, being used to join plates together instead of being used as an overall piece, though, nice work Cib.

My advice... Remember that chain will take time, no matter the weave. Hurrying is never a good idea. Don't rush it and make sure your closures are tight and well butted, or the rings have a tendency to catch on clothes and hair.

If you're still going for the Oriental pattern, do like everyone here says and use 2 sizes of rings, where the center ring is the larger size. Though instead of the 4-1, I would go for 6-1.

I'll add more if I think of anyhting else
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Re: Chain armor pattern

Postby Saxavarius » Sun Oct 17, 2010 10:08 pm

Again thank you; this was more a "could this work" than a "i want to do it this way" idea
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Re: Chain armor pattern

Postby Dacian » Sun Oct 24, 2010 6:33 pm

Rhajhiin wrote:Having made both and used both, I would go for Euro if you're looking to wear it on the field. As mentioned before, the oriental 4-1 hurts more when struck and does not have the same mobility.


Just for clarification, but isn't the Oriental weave actually 2-in-1, whereas the European weave is 4-in-1?

Or am I just completely missing the point of the given nomenclature?
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Re: Chain armor pattern

Postby No'Vak » Sun Oct 24, 2010 6:37 pm

Dacian wrote:
Rhajhiin wrote:Having made both and used both, I would go for Euro if you're looking to wear it on the field. As mentioned before, the oriental 4-1 hurts more when struck and does not have the same mobility.


Just for clarification, but isn't the Oriental weave actually 2-in-1, whereas the European weave is 4-in-1?

Or am I just completely missing the point of the given nomenclature?


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Re: Chain armor pattern

Postby Rhajhiin » Wed Oct 27, 2010 8:03 am

Oriental and European are two completely different types of weaves with very distinct looks, properties and uses. The numbers 4-1, 6-1, (4 in 1, 6 in 1) etc... means that for every 1 ring there's 4 or 6 others linked to it.

Oriental weaves also usually use 2 different size rings as opposed to Euro, which only uses 1 size

Both of these pictures are of 4 in 1 weaves. The top is European the bottom is Japanese

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Re: Chain armor pattern

Postby No'Vak » Wed Oct 27, 2010 9:37 am

I thought the nomenclature meant that when you said 4 in 1 EVERY ring had 4.

The Japanese some have four some have two..
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Re: Chain armor pattern

Postby Rhajhiin » Thu Oct 28, 2010 4:42 am

No'Vik wrote:I thought the nomenclature meant that when you said 4 in 1 EVERY ring had 4.

The Japanese some have four some have two..


I'm a little confused about what you're confused about. When you say that on the Japanese weave, "Some have 4 and some have 2." Are you referring to the edges and corners? The sheet needs to end somewhere.

The naming convention is not literal. The numbers (4 in 1, 6 in 1, etc...) refer to the body of the piece and not the edges and corners.
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Re: Chain armor pattern

Postby Dacian » Thu Oct 28, 2010 6:01 am

Rhajhiin wrote:I'm a little confused about what you're confused about.


wait...now I'm confused...
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Re: Chain armor pattern

Postby Arrakis » Thu Oct 28, 2010 8:56 am

Rhajhiin wrote:
No'Vik wrote:I thought the nomenclature meant that when you said 4 in 1 EVERY ring had 4.

The Japanese some have four some have two..


I'm a little confused about what you're confused about. When you say that on the Japanese weave, "Some have 4 and some have 2." Are you referring to the edges and corners? The sheet needs to end somewhere.

The naming convention is not literal. The numbers (4 in 1, 6 in 1, etc...) refer to the body of the piece and not the edges and corners.


Each small ring (staple ring) in Eastern 4-in-1 connects only 2 larger rings together, whereas each larger ring is pierced by 4 staple rings as in the traditional definition of Western 4-in-1 (wherein all links are supported by four other rings).
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Re: Chain armor pattern

Postby No'Vak » Thu Oct 28, 2010 9:57 am

Dacian wrote:
Rhajhiin wrote:I'm a little confused about what you're confused about.


wait...now I'm confused...


My brain just **** itself.
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