METAL ARMOUR RULE CHANGE???

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METAL ARMOUR RULE CHANGE???

Postby tartarus » Mon Aug 22, 2011 10:24 am

I've noticed the lack of metal armor on the field countless numbers of times. I wanted to know why armor only counts as one point and not two. It's heavier and in some cases takes more effort to create a piece. I heard somebody say it counts for one point to keep people from trying to use metal armor. I believe it should possibly be two points rather than one, and if people are up to the task of math on the field then they can wear it. Once again it is harder to wear so the reward for wearing the heavier material should be slightly greater. And if the one point rule is meant to deter people from using the armor then why allow metal to begin with? It is a period material.
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Re: METAL ARMOUR RULE CHANGE???

Postby Thorondor » Mon Aug 22, 2011 10:34 am

Our game follows the KISS method. Metal armor can actually be easier to create than leather (look * chainmail). If you're talking about plate, it still can be easier in some situations. Armor gets one extra hit...simple as that. More than that and the game becomes "how many hits do you have on your metal armor spots" instead of just assuming you need to hit everywhere twice to kill them unless they say otherwise.

Start using the search function, it will save you a lot of grief from people on the boards...also, talk to your realm, they should be able to explain this type of thing to you in person.
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Re: METAL ARMOUR RULE CHANGE???

Postby Archer » Mon Aug 22, 2011 9:11 pm

I wanted to know why armor only counts as one point and not two.


The best answer I've heard is to avoid this:

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Re: METAL ARMOUR RULE CHANGE???

Postby tartarus » Tue Aug 23, 2011 11:13 pm

what douche bag would use armor on a noob???
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Re: METAL ARMOUR RULE CHANGE???

Postby tartarus » Tue Aug 23, 2011 11:21 pm

Once again i still think it should count for more simply because of the fact that it is HEAVIER to wear and fight in. Who has more mobility, someone in soft leather armor or someone who is in metal armor?
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Re: METAL ARMOUR RULE CHANGE???

Postby Forkbeard » Wed Aug 24, 2011 6:29 am

You are wrong on several points.
well made steel armor is not hard to wear. When made properly, it fits like a glove and doesn't impact your ability to fight at all.
leather armor is usually not soft. Most of mine is hardend leather plates. Not as rigid as steel, but rigid enough to hurt your if it doesn't fit right.
many suits os leather armor wiegh between 20 35pounds. Not quite as much as good steel, but about 2/3 the weight.
lastly, you have no experience with battlefields of 300 to 500, or more, highly competative fighters who are. Beating the living hell out of each other.
I realise that in your head, doing that extra math to figure your extra hit is no problem. But in the chaos of a huge battle, where there may or may not be people intentionaly cheating, that extra hit really gumms up the works. People can not do it,.
also, it isn,t one extra hit, its 5. One on the torso and one on each limb.
that is ALOT of extra math. Do you realise that some of us block with armored body parts in order to stay alive as long as possible?
This will not happen. It would change too much.
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Re: METAL ARMOUR RULE CHANGE???

Postby Sir Anastasia » Wed Aug 24, 2011 11:13 am

I am a bit embarrassed to say it, but I was watching deadliest warrior with the Joan of Arc/King William? episode and they did some very interesting range of motion tests for chain mail and plate. To everyone's surprise plate had the better range of motion by a considerable amount. I think you have likely not considered that aspect of the armor with your proposed change. I also think impromptu plate is the ugliest and most dangerous armor. I keep failing stuff made from heating ducts in my realm, so I don't think we want to encourage people to find scrap metal and beat it into armor.

On a completely different note, I would personally be more likely to wear armor if it didn't convey any extra points. In fact, FB makes beautiful armor for himself (full sets) fairly frequently, and I know it isn't to influence game play as much as it is to make the sport look fantastic. I like to think of armor not as a way of staying alive longer, but as a way of looking great and showing off. I think the community generally wears it for that purpose.
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Re: METAL ARMOUR RULE CHANGE???

Postby Soo Ma Tai » Wed Aug 24, 2011 11:39 am

Most people wear armor because it confers an extra hit. That's why they wear armor, or most wouldn't. FB wears his for the advantage, he makes lots of kits to improve the look of Bel. They are seperate ideas. I don't know anyone who wears their armor simply to look cooler/better. If armor didn't give some sort of in-game advantage, almost no one would wear it. I don't wear mine because I don't want to be hotter and more out of breath than i already am. Whe I do wer it , I wear it to get the advantage and to look more intimidating.
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Re: METAL ARMOUR RULE CHANGE???

Postby Forkbeard » Wed Aug 24, 2011 1:31 pm

I make armor nice to improve the game. I wear it when I want to win.
Like I said, I activly block my torso with my good leg armor by putting my leg in front of a shot.
I do this as much as I can in some fights. It would be great if I could have twice as much armor and be arrow proof if I wore plate. Hell, if that was the case, I would make a suit and wear it. If the rules change, I could sell plate armor to a **** load of folks and make a ton of money.
But it would greatly overcomplicate the game. I would never vote to change the rules, nor would I argue that we should do so.
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Re: METAL ARMOUR RULE CHANGE???

Postby Zuloo » Wed Aug 24, 2011 11:11 pm

may i suggest darkon? there rules are different for armor in the exact way your asking about here
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Re: METAL ARMOUR RULE CHANGE???

Postby Arrakis » Thu Aug 25, 2011 6:55 am

Go check out the mega-sloughing cheat-balls insanity that is an Amtgard class game with 6th level Warriors in 6-point plate armor.

Then shake your head.
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Re: METAL ARMOUR RULE CHANGE???

Postby Slagar » Thu Aug 25, 2011 11:23 am

One thing that doesn't get a lot of attention is how freakin' hard it is to notice hits in full plate armor. Even in my SCA kit, which is mostly impact-grade plastic, I've had buddies take turns winding up and wailing on me with Bel weapons. Almost everything feels light, and if I'm not looking it's hard to even notice anything shy of real bruising swings.

I'm not saying plate isn't cool, and all, but I've always sort of appreciated the lack of it on our fields. There's only one Dag unit I know of that wear it a lot, and they have the reputation of being basically bulletproof unless they're looking at you when you hit them. No malice intended, they just can't feel padded hits through metal armor all that well. Add the math of something like an Amt armor system, and I just can't see any good coming of that.
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Re: METAL ARMOUR RULE CHANGE???

Postby Arrakis » Thu Aug 25, 2011 11:46 am

Slagar wrote:One thing that doesn't get a lot of attention is how freakin' hard it is to notice hits in full plate armor. Even in my SCA kit, which is mostly impact-grade plastic, I've had buddies take turns winding up and wailing on me with Bel weapons. Almost everything feels light, and if I'm not looking it's hard to even notice anything shy of real bruising swings.

I'm not saying plate isn't cool, and all, but I've always sort of appreciated the lack of it on our fields. There's only one Dag unit I know of that wear it a lot, and they have the reputation of being basically bulletproof unless they're looking at you when you hit them. No malice intended, they just can't feel padded hits through metal armor all that well. Add the math of something like an Amt armor system, and I just can't see any good coming of that.


That's thoroughly true. I can't feel a hit from a bel weapon AT ALL through my SCA plate legs.

Rome ends up resorting to sound of impacts to know when they've been hit; if you make the plates on their armor clank together and they notice it, they'll take it, no problem, light or not. But that's a big if.
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Re: METAL ARMOUR RULE CHANGE???

Postby Peanut of Loderia » Thu Aug 25, 2011 9:39 pm

Arrakis wrote:
Slagar wrote:One thing that doesn't get a lot of attention is how freakin' hard it is to notice hits in full plate armor. Even in my SCA kit, which is mostly impact-grade plastic, I've had buddies take turns winding up and wailing on me with Bel weapons. Almost everything feels light, and if I'm not looking it's hard to even notice anything shy of real bruising swings.

I'm not saying plate isn't cool, and all, but I've always sort of appreciated the lack of it on our fields. There's only one Dag unit I know of that wear it a lot, and they have the reputation of being basically bulletproof unless they're looking at you when you hit them. No malice intended, they just can't feel padded hits through metal armor all that well. Add the math of something like an Amt armor system, and I just can't see any good coming of that.


That's thoroughly true. I can't feel a hit from a bel weapon AT ALL through my SCA plate legs.

Rome ends up resorting to sound of impacts to know when they've been hit; if you make the plates on their armor clank together and they notice it, they'll take it, no problem, light or not. But that's a big if.


However in the fray its hard to notice your banging compared to the banging of the people next to you. Case in point, I smashed this dude 7 times in the same shoulder (he jsut kept throwing the HC) and I was staring right at him, and he didnt take anything. I broke one the dudes buckles. He only took the shot I (accidentally) hit him with my pommel. And he still kept throwing the HC. I think Olos killed him in the end.....


Anyway, yes, plates a * to feel weapons through that are not meant to permanently hurt flesh.
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Re: METAL ARMOUR RULE CHANGE???

Postby Arrakis » Fri Aug 26, 2011 6:11 am

Peanut of Loderia wrote:
Arrakis wrote:
Slagar wrote:One thing that doesn't get a lot of attention is how freakin' hard it is to notice hits in full plate armor. Even in my SCA kit, which is mostly impact-grade plastic, I've had buddies take turns winding up and wailing on me with Bel weapons. Almost everything feels light, and if I'm not looking it's hard to even notice anything shy of real bruising swings.

I'm not saying plate isn't cool, and all, but I've always sort of appreciated the lack of it on our fields. There's only one Dag unit I know of that wear it a lot, and they have the reputation of being basically bulletproof unless they're looking at you when you hit them. No malice intended, they just can't feel padded hits through metal armor all that well. Add the math of something like an Amt armor system, and I just can't see any good coming of that.


That's thoroughly true. I can't feel a hit from a bel weapon AT ALL through my SCA plate legs.

Rome ends up resorting to sound of impacts to know when they've been hit; if you make the plates on their armor clank together and they notice it, they'll take it, no problem, light or not. But that's a big if.


However in the fray its hard to notice your banging compared to the banging of the people next to you. Case in point, I smashed this dude 7 times in the same shoulder (he jsut kept throwing the HC) and I was staring right at him, and he didnt take anything. I broke one the dudes buckles. He only took the shot I (accidentally) hit him with my pommel. And he still kept throwing the HC. I think Olos killed him in the end.....


Anyway, yes, plates a * to feel weapons through that are not meant to permanently hurt flesh.


LOL awesome. The one day I was really fighting Romans a lot, I was using a really mean and angry little 6 foot glaive and primarily just hammering shoulder armor with murderstrikes. I didn't have any real problems... but then again, I also knocked a couple of them to their knees with shoulder shots, so.
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Re: METAL ARMOUR RULE CHANGE???

Postby Marrow » Sat Sep 03, 2011 7:38 am

Arrakis wrote:Go check out the mega-sloughing cheat-balls insanity that is an Amtgard class game with 6th level Warriors in 6-point plate armor.

Then shake your head.



when I joined a new group that had once been an amtgard, my first experience was being shot in the eye with a nerf gun. no one had told me nerf was legal. that group has FINALLY adopted bel standards for armor, but it took a lot of pushing. went from 3 points to 2, and only got down to 1 this last week.

I hate amt.
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Re: METAL ARMOUR RULE CHANGE???

Postby Arrakis » Sun Sep 04, 2011 8:03 am

Amtgard can be fun; I'm posting this from my phone from an Amtgard event. I just don't think their armour system works.
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Re: METAL ARMOUR RULE CHANGE???

Postby Tyrieal Isenguard » Sun Sep 04, 2011 10:55 am

I like people wearing leather armor better, leather doesn't cut my swords when I hit it. When I check my swords after events, If I fought someone with plate that day, there are nicks and cuts in my sword foam. You would figure people would check their own armor for edges that are sharp or exposed, but most dont. Darkon is full of plate wearing fighters, so I have to be careful where I hit them.
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Re: METAL ARMOUR RULE CHANGE???

Postby Tiberius Claudius » Mon Sep 05, 2011 6:10 pm

Tyrieal Isenguard wrote:I like people wearing leather armor better, leather doesn't cut my swords when I hit it. When I check my swords after events, If I fought someone with plate that day, there are nicks and cuts in my sword foam. You would figure people would check their own armor for edges that are sharp or exposed, but most dont. Darkon is full of plate wearing fighters, so I have to be careful where I hit them.
The rules already state the metal must be penny round. Its a problem with the armor checking if there are sharp edges. Rule is safe enough for weapon longevity as it is, IMO.
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Re: METAL ARMOUR RULE CHANGE???

Postby Arrakis » Mon Sep 05, 2011 6:59 pm

Tiberius Claudius wrote:
Tyrieal Isenguard wrote:I like people wearing leather armor better, leather doesn't cut my swords when I hit it. When I check my swords after events, If I fought someone with plate that day, there are nicks and cuts in my sword foam. You would figure people would check their own armor for edges that are sharp or exposed, but most dont. Darkon is full of plate wearing fighters, so I have to be careful where I hit them.
The rules already state the metal must be penny round. Its a problem with the armor checking if there are sharp edges. Rule is safe enough for weapon longevity as it is, IMO.



Ehn. Everytime I fight Romans, my fresh swords need re-outer-layered.
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Re: METAL ARMOUR RULE CHANGE???

Postby Stahlgrim » Sat Sep 17, 2011 6:12 pm

Remember Plate spreads the weight of the armor out over the body while chain tends to place it on the shoulders and waist if it is belted.So while plate may weigh twice as much it feels lighter. I have seen guys win foot races and do backflips in full plate. Keep in mind the tempered spring steel armor used in period was thinner than the mild steel reproductions we are used to wearing so in period it was even lighter still.
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