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 Post subject: Streamlined BoW
PostPosted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 1:15 pm 
Scout
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Is there a chance of making a streamlined, easier to read BoW? Not to replace the existing one, but just as something to print out as a hand out to new players? Maybe have some little diagrams of things like target areas and the like?

Would anyone be opposed to something like this?

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 Post subject: Re: Streamlined BoW
PostPosted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 1:40 pm 
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I don't think anyone would be opposed, in fact, it sounds like a really good idea to me.

If you're interested, go ahead and make one up.

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 Post subject: Re: Streamlined BoW
PostPosted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 3:13 pm 
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I know at some point someone had a Bow that fit on an index card and was surprisingly readable as long as you don't have crazy vision problems.

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 Post subject: Re: Streamlined BoW
PostPosted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 3:21 pm 
Skull Crusher
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I like this idea.

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 Post subject: Re: Streamlined BoW
PostPosted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 6:24 pm 
Scout
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I could try to whip something up I suppose. If anyone has any other thoughts or suggestions, spill 'em.

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 Post subject: Re: Streamlined BoW
PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 6:13 pm 
Bandit
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If we just wanted it on a double-sided sheet of paper, or even a single sided one, I think alot of the descriptions of target areas could easily be condensed into a diagram. Not only would it take less space, but sometimes people don't register when you try to describe things to them in terms of "inclusive of joint".
Also if this is something we're handing out to people who just want to learn the rules then we don't need descriptions of what classifies as each weapon, because people can look at the more in depth one when they are constructing weapons.

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 Post subject: Re: Streamlined BoW
PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 9:56 pm 
Barbarian
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I think this would be an amazing thing to have. Currently, our BoW (imo at least) looks like a freaking legal document, and not a rule book for a foam fighting sport. I think us, and maybe Dag (can't recall off the top of my head) are the only groups that format our rules as such. Even the SCA writes their rules out in more of a paragraph/novel style, which (again imo) makes it much easier to read multiple times, thus making it easier for new people to absorb info.

Something short, and written more in a readable fashion would be amazing.
And yes, a small diagram would cut a lot of fat out of the text.

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 Post subject: Re: Streamlined BoW
PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 11:06 pm 
Scout
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I like the idea of a single page (front and back) with all the combat rules. I think the weapon checking segment could be left off, as this would be primarily for noobs whom we could help personally when they decide to make their own gear.

Does anyone wanna come up with a hit diagram?

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 Post subject: Re: Streamlined BoW
PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 1:19 pm 
Bandit
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I'm at the coast this weekend, but I can make one by Monday evening and I'll post it then.

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 Post subject: Re: Streamlined BoW
PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 12:18 am 
Bandit
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Image

Here's a preliminary diagram. I think it is pretty self explanatory for anyone who knows the rules, but it's really simple, and requires only a sentence or two about it.

For example: The effects of each class of weapon on each target area are shown above. A total of two points equals death. 2 adds two to the point total, resulting in instant death. 1 means the target area is removed, and a point is added to the point total. 0 means the target area will be disabled, and will not count towards the two points for death.

The gray thing is a rock, I'm not sure if it's necessary, it's just the only rule as far as target areas not covered in the diagram. I added in some ways to explain foot on ground and hand on weapon in a few short words as well.

What do you guys think? Does it work, and if so what could be changed to add clarity, or just make it better?

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 Post subject: Re: Streamlined BoW
PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 2:52 am 
Scout
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Location: Springfield, OR
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Favorite Fighting Styles: Anything big and heavy.
I had to look at that for a while before I figured it out.

Maybe I'm just a tard, but I like symbols a lil better.

How's this?
Image

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 Post subject: Re: Streamlined BoW
PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 6:54 am 
Warrior
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Def like Aslaug's. Dont have to think very hard

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 Post subject: Re: Streamlined BoW
PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 9:19 am 
Warning: Knows Math
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Just a quick note, everyone:

Remember, if you're working on graphics that are intended to be printed out at some size, please work at some large pixel size. A lot of printing gets done at 300 DPI (dots per inch) so a 900 x 900 image comes out as 3"x3".

Remember to work BIG and keep your edges smooooth for a professional look.

I'll likely be jumping in on the design and wording of this (these) excellent idea(s) in the near future.


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 Post subject: Re: Streamlined BoW
PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 10:51 am 
Bandit
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Ya, I think anything that shows a graphical version of target areas helps. I like Aslaug's version too, my mind just works in numbers, so I defaulted to that (which is probably a bad idea considering how many people rebel against numerical descriptions). A thing to add on to any explanation that is provided is to say that any hit in an area that you feel is in between target areas should default to the worse of the two target areas. Is everyone fine with where the lines are drawn? I don't know if specifically it shows the shots to the buttocks equaling death, but I'm also not sure how to show that in a diagram without wasting space to show both sides just to clear up that one discrepancy.

Also, on the size of image, I literally just stole the body outline off the internet, which limited that. Sadly, I'm not an artist in any way, I just wanted to get my idea across so that someone with some kind of artistic talent can take a crack at it.

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 Post subject: Re: Streamlined BoW
PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 11:58 am 
Bandit
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Sorry to post again right after myself here. Rocca wanted me to post an image that she worked up and see what you guys thought. The things she changed that she wants evaluated are the half skull idea, and making all stabbing effects into symbols instead of letters. (It was done in paint, so its even more jaggy, just evaluate the new ideas, not the entire diagram)

Image

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 Post subject: Re: Streamlined BoW
PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 2:39 pm 
Berserker
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Might as well sever both feet and hands. None of them mention armor, I'm not sure how exactly to diagram that in a simple fashion.

-bort

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 Post subject: Re: Streamlined BoW
PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 3:20 pm 
Bandit
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Ya, sadly I can't think of a way to show armor, but this pamphlet will have alot of explanation on it (I'm assuming) of at least the basics. As far as the other hand and foot, I thought having an empty hand connected was a good was of showing that when there's nothing in it, it's part of the arm's target area. Making it disconnected would say that the hand is a separate target area in all cases.
As to feet, I agree that my halfhearted attempt at making it look like one is on ground and one is above is a silly one, but if we get someone who can properly show the person's other leg in the air I think it could be nice to show the "foot off ground is part of your leg" rule.

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 Post subject: Re: Streamlined BoW
PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 3:30 pm 
Hero
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Timid wrote:
Ya, I think anything that shows a graphical version of target areas helps. I like Aslaug's version too, my mind just works in numbers, so I defaulted to that (which is probably a bad idea considering how many people rebel against numerical descriptions). A thing to add on to any explanation that is provided is to say that any hit in an area that you feel is in between target areas should default to the worse of the two target areas. Is everyone fine with where the lines are drawn? I don't know if specifically it shows the shots to the buttocks equaling death, but I'm also not sure how to show that in a diagram without wasting space to show both sides just to clear up that one discrepancy.



You could just use a side view of the torso section to illustrate the torso section especially up by the neck and down by the legs. Another option might be to include some text indicating that the groin and buttocks are part of the torso.

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 Post subject: Re: Streamlined BoW
PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 7:00 pm 
Brute
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1) I was planning on working on a streamlined BoW. If one already exists that would save me some effort. Has anyone completed this project? If not, I'll be happy to post mine as soon as it is done (my tentative deadline is early March).

2) Not trying to knock a good idea down or anything... but why do we need a graphical hit location chart? Back in the day... the DD handbook had a simple table with columns of body locations (Head, Arm, Body, etc.) and rows of weapon types. That's how I learned 12 years ago. It was simple and effective.

I'm not saying that a pretty picture detailing where our hit locations are located wouldn't be nice to have. I just hate to see effort expended when something simple could work just as well.

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 Post subject: Re: Streamlined BoW
PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 7:33 pm 
Skull Crusher
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I think Dag still uses a table on there site at some points. A table might work very well for a streamlined BOW. Other than being easier to read (less effort), might it also take up less space? Cuz that would be good.

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 Post subject: Re: Streamlined BoW
PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 8:21 pm 
Hero
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Here's a chart I put together using Excel:

Image

It's sized to fit on a single sheet of paper.

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 Post subject: Re: Streamlined BoW
PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 9:27 pm 
Warning: Knows Math
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0 for no effect.
- for pierced target area.
\ for first hit on armor on target area.
X for disabled target area.

That might clean that up a hair.

Good chart, though.


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 Post subject: Re: Streamlined BoW
PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2008 7:02 pm 
Brute
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Nah, I like it as it is. It is a bit more complicated than the old-school one that I remember. But I like that it goes that extra step in detail. Giving it a more cryptic key would put it beyond the newbs that would benefit most from this.

Thank you for making this ^.^

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Horde marched to the field. Their leaders up in the air, adorned in furs and animal skulls. Women from camps chained underneath the platforms, fire-breathers & flag bearers ran about before of the procession. I have never in my life felt closer to being in a fantasy world. I will always remember that for a moment I thought so many things were possible.


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