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 Post subject: Are we just partying and swinging foam?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2015 11:52 am 
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Location: Louisville, KY
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Have you ever noticed that Dagohir has a lot more events than we do? For that matter have you noticed that the SCA has a lot more going on than we do? This topic came up on our home page and it has me thinking about some things. Arguably they have been around longer than we have but I think that we can learn from them.

I have often heard the accusation that all we do at events is party all night and swing foam all day. I am not saying that there is anything wrong with that. It is exactly what a lot of people want to do and that is why they come to events, but it is not what everyone wants. Some people have children and they don't want them around a bunch of drunks. Some people don't like to fight but they are very good at arts and crafts. I think that we can be more. We have become to myopic.

This is about recruiting. If we want to recruit new people then we need to reach out to a new demographic. One of my SCA friends pointed out to me that Bel/Dag is more of a LARP than anything because it doesn't do anything to really embrace medieval culture. In a way I agree. One way that we can do that is by encouraging the arts and sciences. We can get people that know how to do things to run classes and teach those skills. We can hold contests for cooking, brewing, garb making, etc. We can have live entertainment that includes music and dancing. (I am aware that some of this happens at events sometimes but I am spit balling ideas.)

Just a thought but I think that it may be time that we start getting out of our comfort zone a little. Thanks

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 Post subject: Re: Are we just partying and swinging foam?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2015 12:10 pm 
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Here is another question what do all the people that are not interested in fighting do during the day at events? Are they destined to be nothing but cheer leaders and spectators? I guess that is all well and good if they enjoy cheering and watching but if they don't then we lose them. They walk away thinking "this is lame." and we lose any chance of recruiting them in the future.

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 Post subject: Re: Are we just partying and swinging foam?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2015 12:12 pm 
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You're not alone in thinking this. There has been a lot of effort put forth by a lot of people over the past few years to try to fix this. The Artificer and Seneschal guilds come to mind. I've seen a big uptick in arts & sciences type stuff at events lately. More classes, more merchants, more contests that don't revolve solely around fighting.

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 Post subject: Re: Are we just partying and swinging foam?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2015 1:39 pm 
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I completely agree! Our biggest untapped recruitment potential is (older) family oriented people and people interested in medieval society. We just can't do that if all we do is drink and fight. We loose out on responsible, established, and frankly monied individuals who mature out of the sport at the time when they could be making the largest contributions toward giving our members stability, mentorship, and resources. It is a factor that keeps us perpetually "young" as an organization. If we are able to make an effective transition to include these people in addition to our more combat focused youth - we would have such a strong organization - something that we could have multiple generations participating in far beyond our time on earth.

What can we do?
I have tried a few things at my own event that I would like to share in case they can help other groups and events. I believe many of these items are contributors to the exponential growth seen in my region. These are in addition to the normal event activities people do.

Suggested Event Activities

Merchant Row provides non-com activities all day
Nightly gameroom for board games and other table top games (safe, non-drinker alternative)
Arts and Sciences Competitions with craft write-ups and excellent prizes
Field-side Kid activities to allow parents to fight while kids are watched by responsible adults
Arts and Sciences classes distributed through the day during the event
Leadership classes during the day: heralding, realm/event running, weapon's check, ect.
Kit classes where an activity fee pays for materials where you make something
Community meeting blocks - allowing other groups space at your event for approved public meetings
Luncheon activities for pre-approved groups that serve aspects of the community, e.g. Valkyries
Engineered social activities that encourage mingling: bardic night, pub night, smores night, ect.
Feast - this is a powerful way to bring people together for event wide cohesion
Awards Ceremony: Recognize volunteers- bribe with icecream/treats - foster leadership/cohesion

TLDR: Events are opportunities for social engineering that allow us to create community cohesion while providing us with our greatest retention tool - throwing people a party so EVERYONE has a good time.

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 Post subject: Re: Are we just partying and swinging foam?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2015 4:07 pm 
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You raised a good question, Thorne. What do non-coms do during the day at events? What do they do at local practices? I'd love to hear from non-combatants on what they do during the day, and what they wish they could be doing instead.

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 Post subject: Re: Are we just partying and swinging foam?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2015 8:54 am 
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I believe this is about more than just recruitment. It is also about retention. I am married and I can tell you that my wife and kids are bored to tears at events. They refuse to come with me so I only make it to about 3 events a year. Basically that is the max I can go to without making my spouse angry. I know a lot of people who started this game as young single and focused on combat, but as they age their priorities change. That doesn't mean that they stop enjoying the game but they get families. They want to spend time with the people that they love. If their spouse absolutely hates this sport then in many cases it will permanently pull them out of the sport. In many cases you get my situation, an understanding spouse that doesn't like the sport so my access is limited.

Here is the thing. She loves going to rent-faires with me. She will go to SCA events with me. Why? It is simple there is stuff for her and the kids to do and trust me in the case of many mom's having something for the kids to do is more important than having something for her to do.

If we had a few Ren-faire type activities for non-coms, and somehow made an effort to separate the drunks from people with families it would go a long way toward retaining people.

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 Post subject: Re: Are we just partying and swinging foam?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2015 12:45 pm 
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Sir Anastasia some great ideas by the way.

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 Post subject: Re: Are we just partying and swinging foam?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2015 1:58 pm 
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I have a very similar problem with events vs. my family. Last event I went to was in 2013 because my wife doesn't want to cart the kids over and doesn't want me leaving for multiple days. If there were more than fighting and drinking, I'm sure I'd be able to get more.

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 Post subject: Re: Are we just partying and swinging foam?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2015 8:04 pm 
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I've been having some discussions with noncoms that I know and one thing I've heard is a little disheartening. Basically when some non-coms in the past have offered to volunteer their time and expertise to organize and run some non-com activities they have been discouraged or ignored.

I know that there is a small resistant group that wants to keep this a combat only game. They do not want to allow this game to evolve into more. Ultimately our non-coms are the ones who make all this possible. If they weren't cooking, making garb, running troll, etc. We couldn't have events at all.

Now maybe it is just a communication break down. These things happen and that is always an area that every organization can improve.

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 Post subject: Re: Are we just partying and swinging foam?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2015 3:00 pm 
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Could we please stop referring to a portion of Bel's members as non-coms? One of my friends said it far more eloquently than me:

Note: This was not in a specific response to this thread but a discussion we were having.

"... one of the points of discussion has been inclusion of "non-coms"... And dear Lord am I disgusted. So many of the responses sound like early racial integration jargon Or like non-coms are a totally separate species. Comments that are phrased as "them" vs "us." I hate to use the term, but this is classic "othering". Gah. Even the most positive language about non-coms frames the discussion as a labor force or servants for the [group]. And I will join [name edited out] in being sick of the term non-com. We're all Belegrim, why is that so hard for some folks to wrap their minds around? I happen to enjoy cooking for camp, volunteering at events, making garb, helping run my realm AND hitting people with foam weapons. No single activity defines me in Bel... 'Kay, I feel a bit better now.

I know these attitudes are pretty common in all of Bel, but I just don't have to hear such blatant ignorance and misconceptions very often. And it's made even more frustrating by the fact that I can tell that they are speaking from unconscious assumptions not intentional thoughts..."

I'm of the opinion that we shouldn't be actively trying to find activities for "non-coms" but to offer activities that ANYONE can choose to participate in that fit within the medieval milieu we have created.

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 Post subject: Re: Are we just partying and swinging foam?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2015 10:25 pm 
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This is an interesting thread, and I find myself having two strong and conflicting reactions, one positive and one negative. Please bear with me and read both.

Negative: I hear that you want to make Bel more inclusive in order to improve recruitment and retention. I totally support that. But I’m kinda worried about the idea that an event should be an active source of entertainment for people who aren’t interested in Bel in and of itself, and I think the comparison to a ren faire isn’t accurate. You pay admission to attend a ren faire, and the faire pays for entertainers and activities that everyone can participate in. Ren faire guilds volunteer because they are passionate about acting or reenactment. Some Bel events have activities like boffer/kiddie fighting and goblin night because passionate people decided to create the activity for themselves and others. I’m not interested in forcing events to create activities for family and children because I’m personally not interested in other people’s kids (I love my family and my friend’s kids, but I’m pretty much indifferent to the children of strangers so long as they are safe and healthy).

A Bel event is more like cooperative camping than visiting Disneyland. People who want family activities must be will to suggest ideas, help organize and run them, and promote participation. Bel is 100% volunteer and no one is being paid to entertain you. And it's frankly not everyone's cup of tea.

Positive: I 100% support growing events to include all sorts of activities. Having talked to many event coordinators, they love new ideas but have limited time and energy to implement them. They need eager teachers and excited students for classes and workshops. They need extra volunteers to coordinate class schedules, camp open houses, cook-offs, fashion shows and other shenanigans. There are lots of great ideas on how to engage everyone at an event, they just require the time and effort of the community.

I think all events should have classes, workshops and craft competitions. I love shopping at merchant’s row. And because these things are important to me, I help make them happen.

As for what do Belegrim do at an event when they aren’t fighting… I generally volunteer at troll, because I get to meet all sorts of people. I take a class because there are so many amazing crafters that I only see at events, and I’m lucky enough to attend events that have classes. I teach a class because I want to help raise everyone’s skill level, and we all need better garb ;-) I’m usually in bed before the nightlife really gets going, but I love to sit around the campfire for story time. And I spend a lot of time just hanging out with friends. I also act as goffer for event staff, cook for my camp, spray people with sunscreen, and try to help out anyone who looks lost, confused or overwhelmed. I do fight, but I’m often too busy having fun elsewhere to bother at events.

I think the best place to grow a more inclusive Bel culture is actually in our realms. Encourage crafting circles, workshops before or after weekly practice, or BBQs/bonfires. Give everyone, not just "plus ones," something to do beyond swinging foam.

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 Post subject: Re: Are we just partying and swinging foam?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2015 3:43 pm 
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I think the discussion needs to be more about broadening what Belegarth is rather than about making what it currently is stretch to accommodate "others." Belegarth is a combat sport, but that's not all it is and treating anyone who isn't primarily a fighter as someone who just needs entertained to keep our fighters happy or able to participate is demeaning. Just because they aren't here for fighting doesn't mean they aren't here for Belegarth.

Belegarth can have more appeal than just what it offers as a fighting sport. However, though it's good and well to say that if people wanted to see other activities and interests represented that they would step up and do them, if people feel like the majority of members wouldn't be interested then they aren't going to waste their time. Furthermore, people aren't going to be attracted to our sport if they don't see these things already here. As others have said here and on Facebook, one of the things that gives groups like the SCA staying power with people with family or friends that aren't interested in fighting is that those other interests are already there. We aren't going to recruit people based on what we could be, nor will we keep people based on it.

We can address our problems with recruitment and retention simply by broadening what the sport is. That isn't going happen via passive volunteerism.

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 Post subject: Re: Are we just partying and swinging foam?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2015 9:13 am 
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Kyrian I can see your point about using the term non-com to refer to non-combatants. In my case it is just a bit of laziness not wanting to write out the whole word. There are all kinds of different people that count themselves as Belegarth. I don't expect our sport to become a Ren faire, I don't want partying to stop altogether. I'd just like the sport to expand a little to include everyone, and the partying to be done responsibly.

I believe the responsibility for creating activities for people who are not interested in fighting for the most part is on people who do not wish to fight. If they want to stand on the sidelines and watch because they enjoy doing that then that is fine. If they are standing there complaining that they are bored and want something to do then I say come up with some activities that you enjoy and set them up. I believe that you will find that many people who are fierce fighters on the field have other interests. Personally I fight, paint, brew, make armor, weapons and do wood work. Even Musashi thought to be one of the greatest swordsman in history is credited for writing Haiku.

To event coordinators I say, please do not ignore people interested in setting up non-combat activities or prevent them from setting anything up. There is room for all of us to have fun here.

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 Post subject: Re: Are we just partying and swinging foam?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2015 1:48 pm 
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Not everyone wants to fight all the time or have that be the only thing we do. Belegarth is beyond fighting. Having activities that anyone can enjoy is a boon to all events. I recommend that events make it a priority to block time for a variety of activities.

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 Post subject: Re: Are we just partying and swinging foam?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2015 5:33 pm 
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Our realm of Khador has had in place for quite some time now both a ranking system and duties for non coms that is actually being updated at this time. We always have many things for our non coms to do as well as recognition for jobs/tasks well done! Please feel free to contact any of our leadership for more information!!

IE: Bill Wllhem Timm
Stephen Geezer Jolliff
Aron Blikkz Cates
Ryan Sax Mowry are current leadership of the realm.

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 Post subject: Re: Are we just partying and swinging foam?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2015 7:07 am 
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Thorne the mercenary wrote:
Kyrian I can see your point about using the term non-com to refer to non-combatants. In my case it is just a bit of laziness not wanting to write out the whole word. There are all kinds of different people that count themselves as Belegarth. I don't expect our sport to become a Ren faire, I don't want partying to stop altogether. I'd just like the sport to expand a little to include everyone, and the partying to be done responsibly.

I believe the responsibility for creating activities for people who are not interested in fighting for the most part is on people who do not wish to fight.


I think you missed Kyrian's point entirely. As I understand it, it's not really the word "non-com" that's the issue so much as the assumption that there is a specific group of people of any sort who are distinctly different than fighters. Furthermore, it's the underlying assumption that fighters are there to fight and that's it.

Your goal here should not be to entertain "non-coms" or convince them to entertain themselves. Your goal be broader: to increase the range of activities for any Belegrim at your event to participate in. Participation in a bardic contest isn't related to one's fighting status. Participation in a cooking or sewing class isn't related to one's fighting status. Sitting around a fire and telling stories isn't related to one's fighting status.

Stop talking about entertaining and retaining non-fighters. Start talking about increasing non-fighting activities (that Belegrim can participate in whether they also fight or not).

Continuing to make a distinction between fighters and non-fighters (rather than simply fighting activities and non-fighting activities that anyone can participate in) is alienating.

I've been fighting for 11 years (5 Bel, and more recently 6 Dag). I fight at practices, but at a typical weekend event, at this point, I only fight for an hour or two. I'm still fully engaged with Dag/Bel the whole time, but I spend a lot of it building a camp, trading at trading post, wandering about as a bard, etc. Redefine "belegrim" to capture all that in the back of your heads, then start doing more of those other things, then you may start seeing more retention. Don't just give me awards for service though (even though I herald, water herald, garb herald, take photos, etc). I'm not your servant.

(Or at least, that's my interpretation.)

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 Post subject: Re: Are we just partying and swinging foam?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2015 10:08 am 
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You see this page?

We need this page.
http://welcome.sca.org/

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 Post subject: Re: Are we just partying and swinging foam?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2015 8:48 pm 
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That's a good page.

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 Post subject: Re: Are we just partying and swinging foam?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2015 11:23 am 
Become One With the Wind
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Cheeseheart and I talked about this, and we do have something along the same lines coming up in the new site. He also gave me some good suggestions that I'm going to build in.

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 Post subject: Re: Are we just partying and swinging foam?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2015 1:39 pm 
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You guys are unparalleled in awesome. Thank you

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