Foam Fighters Union

[debuenzo]

so you basically want an accepted truce?

or for both groups to come back together?

[Hunter S.]

so you basically want an accepted truce?

or for both groups to come back together?

Funny enough, I see both sides fighting together, but there will never be a truce

[Argyll]

our goal is to establish community among both groups fighter so that at least for everyone beside's those in charge feel like their part of one sport. After that is accomplished I could forsee the formal division themselves dissolving once unity is undeniable.

[Tor]

Dag already had a falling out before us. The schism group was Amtgard. We here in Utah fight with them. Wouldn't it be better to unify ourselves with another group that'd actually welcome our style of fighting?

[Argyll]

amtgard is a completely different sport.

[Olos]

It's actually quite similar with a few things added in.

You could take your bel-legal weapons, and do just fine once you learned the class dynamics and the rules regarding magic and such.

[Shyftir]

Hey count me in!

I'm from Muxlovia, on extension in Wisconsin, but.. I'm coming to Spring War and I want one of those belts. I'll help the cause of unified Foam fighting. These days I tell people who ask that I play H.A.C.S. and Bel. I'd love to say, "I'm part of the NFMCS." (National Foam-based Medieval Combat Society.) or some such thing.

[Sir Sasquatch]

I will try to make me a belt sash and wear it at thaw brawl here in the west on april 20th and 21st I was in amt for a while a few years ago. I think politics and power monging ruin alot of fun that could be had. Here in I Enga Emyn we have had sca and ampt both fall apart because of politics. (same people causing the same problems) I have stayed away from sca just because of the politics (also the whole "need hard suit to fight" and I prefer the being able to fight with or without armour) so I would say go DBU

[GvK]

Dag already had a falling out before us. The schism group was Amtgard.

That's not a very accurate way to summarize what happened. In brief, a dude going by the highly original name "Musashi" that was briefly involved in Dagorhir in the early years (around 1980 or so) moved to Texas and tried to start his new game (now Amtgard) pretty much using the then Dagorhir rule book (not yet copyrighted) verbatim, just replacing the name Dagorhir with the new name. Apparently, he was also involved in Emarthgengarth (I'm sure the spelling is wrong; though I went to a few of their battles back when) and similarly "appropriated" at least some of their ideas/rules as well. Once Dag found out about it, I think as he was trying to copyright the rule book (that were mostly Dag's rules), Dagorhir (Aratar and Graymael) copyrighted the rules (sort of had to) and his "claim" on the rules was thrown out with predjudice.

Anyhow, the game evolved further and he was essentially removed from the game. Twenty+ years later or more, it is a much different game than Dag or Bel.

So, not really a schism, more like an pre-internet attempt to hijack the rules by a lone person seeking to make a slightly different game in a very different part of the country.

[Zzyzx]

The Dagorhir-Belegarth Union
"One Sport for All of Us"

What I see as being the most effective means to accomplish this is to start a genuine social movement within the sports.
Give it a powerful name, a slogan, a symbol to be worn on tabards, or flags, all representing an urge to bring us together as we should be.

I've always known in my heart since I joined this game that they would not be divided forever, and it is in the nature of both games (perhaps not in the minds of those who hold power) that these sports reunite given the goal to spread this great thing that was created and we have discovered to everyone whose ever dreamed of fighting like their literary, historical, and cinematic heroes.

Skorr touched on this - I do think that the relationship between Bel and Dag is similar to the relationship between the US and England. At this point, we acknowledge England as our mother country and they are one of our allies, but the separation was an important part of both of our histories and we have both grown as separate groups since then.

You have great intentions. Aratari has no reason to merge with us, Dag is the sport they created. War Council will not dissolve - regardless of how or why the split happened, Belegarth has gained independence and flourished on it's own through the efforts and dedication of its members and would not give up all they/we have worked so hard for.

If the goal of this group was for more awareness and support of foamfighting events as a whole, I would support it. Of course, that is what Talon was doing with NFFA (National Foam Fighting Alliance). If you have any questions at all about how the people in power at Dag feel about promoting Foam Fighting as a whole and not just their sport, I suggest you look into the history of this before you repeat it.

More interaction between the two groups would be beneficial for all. As GvK said, we are for the most part welcome to each other's events. Going to both Bel and Dag events in an effort to grow both sports is an admirable cause.

I, however, do not think either side should be expected to give up their separate identities to create "One Sport". Realistically, the ONE way I could see this ever happening is if we follow the lead of the UFC and their recent acquisition of PRIDE. Possible, not probable.

[ICARUS]

Aryll- Seeing as that you have a rather good size request for belts I would like to toss out an idea as to make your job easier and make them faster. Go to wal-mart or meijer to thier respective hobby area and buy some of thier yellow fabric paint, a foam sheet and, a foam brush. Use the foam sheet to make your crown template and just paint your crown on the half black and half white belt flag. If you do that it should be really easy and save you a lot of time.

[Argyll]

sure, i'll give it a shot. What brand of fabric paint and what type should I use? Is it carried at wal-mart? What foam should I use as well?

[ICARUS]

If you go to wal-mart use thier puffy fabric paint it's like a dollar a tube (don't be fooled by thier size it covers really well) and the foam sheet should be like 33 cents any color. Like I said it should all be in thier little hobby section near each other.

[Argyll]

Domo!

[Argyll]

here's the document detailing our cause which will be handed out to all members:

The Foam Fighters Union

The Foam Fighters Union is a coalition of fighters from both the Dagorhir Battle Games Association, and the Belegarth Medieival Combat society committed to establishing a sense of unity and commitment yet to be seen between the sports of Belegarth and Dagorhir. While in name, and political structure, Dagorhir and Belegarth are separate, but members of the Foam Fighters Union acknowledge that the sports are truly one in the same. They acknowledge that members of both groups are passionate about the same things and in the same ways. The intention of the Foam Fighters Union is to rise above the occurrences of the past that brought about the initial split and looks ahead to a future of unified foam fighting among the communites of both Dagorhir and Belegarth.

How We Do It:
1. Promotion: FFU members will promote both games of foam fighting, Belegarth and Dagorhir. Members of the FFU will spread the word of the great games we have discovered and encourage attendance at both Dagorhir and Belegarth events.
2. Attendance: Just as FFU members encourage bi-sport attendance in others, it is of course required that FFU members make an effort themselves to be active members in both sports, and attend both of there events as possible.
3. Respect, Honor, and Presence: In order for the FFU to be a respectable group, its members need to hold themselves to a higher level of respect honor and presence than the average fighter. All members should do so in all forms, be it teaching new fighters skills, hit taking, etc. all members should present a positive image to others. FFU members should keep their weapons, equipment, and garb in good order as well.
4. Service: Another aspect of respect is that FFU members should do what they can to serve both sports. They should help at events by volunteering at troll, cleaning up, organization etc.. FFU members should be an active member in the community as much on the field as off the field. Starting up fighting groups at schools, universities, and areas where Foam Fighting is not yet present.
5. Bearing the symbol: All of the above won?t mean anything for our cause unless people know what FFU members are standing for. Members should show their support for the group by bearing our symbol whenever in the presence of other foam fighters, be it at events, practices, feasts etc.. People will identify you and your deeds with our organization and this will foster positive sentiment for our group and our cause.

What We?re Not Out to Do

1. Gain political power within either sport
2. Make a monetary profit
3. undermine either sport
4. use violence, hatred, scheming, or other disrespectful means to achieve our goal.

For information on joining the FFU, contact Argyll at Onorhelm@yahoo.com

i've noticed some typos and such that I will edit when I get the time, but for the moment i've got to get on a train and start packing for the event.

a bunch more flags to make! GRAGH!

[Tren]

I think it sounds exceptional.

[Tor]

Why stop with just those two? Why not invite the Amtgard, Nero, Darkon, and others who like to spar? Sure we tend to hit a bit harder than they do, but they tend to be much faster; there'd be a good trade-off in inviting them to spar "our rules" for a while.

Conversely, it'd be much easier for us to foster good will with those groups than it would to try and "repair" a relationship with our counterpart anyway.

[Dragon of Fire]

could someone (please) who knows of what happened between the sports pm me with the story? i dont want to start a topic on this and cause trouble, and i sure as heck wouldnt ask on the dag boards, but i'd like a small explanation of what happened.

i dont think its stupid, but thats because i dont know details. i say, let there be peace, but if there were lawsuits involved, it sounds like it might be hard to do if the sue'er and the sue'ee are still in the sports

[Shyftir]

Hey Guys,

The Foam Fighting Union sounded like a great name until the acronym started getting used, might want to rethink any name resulting in the acronym FFU. Possible mistakes are bound to come up on that meaning...

Plus, yes. Let's invite all "battle sports" into this thing, with the understanding it is to be for full (ish) contact, no magic fighting. No disrespect to the magic thing in other games, but combat is an element in all the games, magic only in some.

I would like to see Bel and Dag someday be like the American and National Leagues of Baseball, separate but equal and friendly. (I do realize that MLB is united now but sanz that I mean.)

[Big King Jimmy]

Just to show I'm not a total jag off:

The intention of the Foam Fighters Union is to rise above the occurrences of the past that brought about the initial split and looks ahead to a future of unified foam fighting among the communites of both Dagorhir and Belegarth.

Foam fighters union is the singular "union", and should be placed with the singular "look."

2. Attendance: Just as FFU members encourage bi-sport attendance in others, it is of course required that FFU members make an effort themselves to be active members in both sports, and attend both of there events as possible.

I still kind of see a problem here. Your asking that, as a person who wishes to support both sports, they must travel perhaps outside their financial limit. 'Geddon isn't just smaller than Rag, it's also closer and cheaper. That's another big reason for attending 'Geddon. And I don't think Ohio has Gross Burger. I don't think you should word it as "it is of course required that FFU members make an effort themselves to be active members in both sports" but instead something along the lines of "Not limit themselves to practices and events of one sport or the other." Otherwise, if I don't live near a Dag realm, and choose 'Geddon or Rag, I'm not allowed. I can't make practices to a realm a state away, I've got 4 weekend events close than any Dag event, and that leaves giving up 'Geddon for Rag as my only way to participate.

What We?re Not Out to Do

I understand you're using all caps to draw attention, but I think you should bold instead, and other sections of the document as well. This just looks like a second grader wrote it.

i've noticed some typos and such that I will edit when I get the time, but for the moment i've got to get on a train and start packing for the event.

Doh.

[Beoren]

You keep saying that this isn't just an attempt to boost numbers for Dag events...and I believe it...and I think you're a bit confused. I know this has been said before, but I'll repeat it again. This is an effort to get members of each sport to attend the events of the other, yes? But, seeing as you, due to their fascist forum system, you can only really discuss this openly with Bele fighters, leading to what has been cited before- drop in attendance for our events, and a boost to theirs. You can try the underground support campaign with them, but don't expect much. Belegarth advocacy at Dag events isn't exactly welcomed with open arms. There will not ever be an official union of the two....anybody think the Aratari are ready to give up power? We are run democratically, people can say what they choose and not worry about any retribution other than people disagreeing with them, and welcome anybody and everybody to our events. Why not try to help build up this sport, the one you originally joined, instead of, with all the best intentions, i'm sure, hurting it and trying to support programs that will cut our attendance?

I'm not telling you to completely shun Dag, i've got plenty of Dag friends myself. Just be realistic about what's going to happen here, and maybe rethink how you want to spend your time.

[Tren]

Argyll and I have already talked to Dag fighters through their boards and talked about mutually supporting each others practices. The dag boards aren't as unresponsive as you'd think.

[Beoren]

mind putting up a link to the thread there?

[Peregrine]

is anyone aware that Arm is in July this Year so it is not competing with Rag.
I have had a lot of time to think about this with all the driving I have had to do this week. I know this is not Argylls intentBut I feel this is not a reunification of two sports but the growing of Dag. at the expense of Belegarth . " the road to Hell is paved with Good Intentions"

[Cyric]

It's not just a competition of days, but also a competition of vacation time and money.

[Colin]

You could take your bel-legal weapons, and do just fine [in amtgard]...

Reminds me of a good point. This is not always true with dag, they in fact have some different rules.

[Hunter S.]

Seriously, I'd love you to post a link to that thread. I want to see what they have to say...

[Skynet]

Not being able to fully understand the scope of the thread I do want to throw out there an agreed apon mutual event day, World Series of foam fighting. With a delegation between the two groups to work out rules/money. Both sides have no real gain, but rather just massive fighting. Or maybe seperate the camps and call it high noon till the last man drops.

[Sir Sasquatch]

at first I was thinking it sounded cool I am all for trying to get people from all forms of medievel combat to get to together ( we have had Adrian empire, Sca, Larps, Ex amptguard fighters) all come to our fight practice. I also think belegarth and dag split (even though it was before my time in belegarth ( I was involved in an amptguard group locally for a while)) is a shame but sounds like power monging. There are a few issues i have with some of the rules. I do support the Idea and the intention but I dont think I can put my full backing behind it at this time


2. Attendance: Just as FFU members encourage bi-sport attendance in others, it is of course required that FFU members make an effort themselves to be active members in both sports, and attend both of there events as possible.

well ok mainly this one rule as there is no dag group near me and I dont think I would join a dag group for one of the reasons I do not fight in sca or amptguard anymore (the politics just make me twitch) and I would like to see it be a more all around promotion not just dag and bel
[/quote]

[Skynet]

Ok so I?ve sat down read the thread and took a couple days to think it over.
(WARNING LONG POST-GET BEVRAGE OF CHOICE BEFORE READING)

Reunification of the sport is mostly beneficial to the participants. The real problem lies at the foundations of the organization. Where are we going? The short term goal has always been create more interest to provide more fighters which in turn makes bigger events. Bigger events draws more attention and more ?fun and excitement? thus continuing the cycle. But imagine for a second what would happen is both parties simply shake hands and create a new organization. Both sides, as well as common sentiment is to democratically create a confederation and use delegates to a council to decide the greater governing direction. The current leaders from both sides would most likely be retained in this endeavor. This is the exact reason that the split remains.

Just taking a look at the Dagorhir argument it is clear that the directed antagonist is Kegg or rather the bulk of the remaining leaders from the split times. By leaders I also mean those behind the scenes. However in terms of perpetuating our sport it is those same leaders who are constantly looking for way to increase our sports longevity and scope. I am an avid supporter of Edhellen it is those opportunities that will increase the game. Standards are key in projecting to the masses, which by most is what everyone seems to want to do. Those masses are very skeptical of do-it-yourself equipment and more importantly the non-norm projection of wearing ?garb?. In that aspect it can be related to paintball. More and more people started playing, but the idea of dressing up in camouflage and stalking about in the woods was a turn off. But the speedball image of logo uniforms, sleek looking goggles and markers exploded the industry and now most Television broadcasts are of Tournament paintball. Granted the obvious limitations of trying to record people running around in the woods is plain. But it remains that those with the money to advertise the sport wanted to portray something less ?military?. Same goes for those who are potential players who just dislike the idea of having to buy/make a tunic and then try not to be made fun of when he tries to get his friends to play. If HACS had say a uniform very similar to those worn by the contestants in Harry potter and the goblet of fire?s Triwizard Tournament, that would clean the image and draw more attention to the idea of foam fighting ultimately drawing more attention from those who are interested in wearing ?garb? and the atmosphere of the field events that otherwise were blind to the knowledge of the sport.

HACS is a great idea; a for the masses style system complete with projection outside the forests and playground fields. Conventions and other venues that would normally not be ideal for large battles being solicited coupled with a standard gear company backing them is an awesome idea. It is safe to say those involved have thought this very point out long ago. I would also like to point out that the Edhellen customer service has always been good to me. Those involved in that know of the price to pay if they are not and obviously have the game at heart with every order. Because you never know who you might upset and who they will tell. That person who hears of bad service and might not order might not ever play.

This all merges together the counter to Belegarth-Dagorhir reunification. What?s in it for Dagorhir? They stand only to gain our players. At the expense of allowing those they view as detrimental to their sport back to the voting seats. In their eyes they don?t feel that to gain players from Belegarth they need to do anything. If someone wants to play with them, join a group and play, if not leave. One obvious benefit from this side of the table is the HACS group and those that support it. But in turn those that support it are those that Dagorhir dislikes, with exceptions. What does Belegarth have to gain from Dagorhir? More players and those that dislike the very people that seek to propel foam fighting in general.
So does a grass roots revolution seek to quietly force the hand of those that are propellants on both sides? Yes and it is that very thing Dagorhir seeks to prevent by blocking non-Dagorhir comments or groups, and rightly so. For they have their own game to protect. By protecting I mean they seek to keep the system they have worked so hard to create, regardless if it is right or wrong.

I don?t see either group shaking hands again. At least while the objectors and targets are firmly implanted in both the leadership and proponents of each game. Something has to be brought forth that is worth wild for the each side to give up their objections. I would venture a guess as a main objection is those viewed by Dagorhir to be detrimental to their sport would not be allow in a seat of decision making. Would those identified be willing to give that up for the pure sake of having more fighters? That is a membership question, as they choose who to represent them.
For a game neutral event to happen Belegarth would have to make many concessions in order to get the Dagorhir folks to agree to it. Concessions many here would be against, such as those banned not attend. Petty difference some say but in reading the arguments, both believe it canon of their view and backing down is a sign of wrong judgment. The scope is so large now politically it is the right decision.

Back to the beginning; the foundation of the sport. It has to be re worked in order to solidify the grounds for a combination. I?m pretty sure that no one(from Belegarth) would be opposed to making a new organization in which the objections from both sides are removed and everyone maintains the same fight as before. Rules hammered out, leadership roles and governmental decisions all re done in order to provide a clean slate.

But still why should Dagorhir or Belegarth do all this? For more players? If the answer is yes and no side is willing to join the other, join the third side and start something new. But if you should fail would you risk detraction from both sports? Is it worth it?

I do understand that Belegarth is that something new and if that is the case Belegarth is truly the renegade force and should seek to recruit new members from all sports. After all they are already interested in foam combat and have gear. Maybe an addition rule book called the Belegarth Book of Combined Combat? A new set of rules made to incorporate the fundamental ideas of each disparity of the other sports. Used when the Dag or Arm or Nero ect? Come and fight at a combined event. In essence start to create no reason for people of another sport to come and play. Now a key point I want to bring up in these combined events. Separate the fighters of each sport administratively. They pay a reduced entrance fee, which returns to their organization. If they want to get in on the feast they pay a separate fee for that since it is combined. Feature ?there rules only? battles and ?our rules only? then have ?Belegarth Book of Combined combat? games. This will allow even more visibility to HACS and our vendors ect?

It may seem that we are promoting other games at the expensed of Belegarth. We are simply rolling the dice so to speak as gaining or loosing member if someone determines that they like a different game better. Besides I think that if it works Belegarth would be the transformed group drawing all fighters to a truly unified Foam Fighting group. It would not water down the ?Belegarth? as we know it because that is the core, and there would still be core events, which in turn would have more attendees because there would not be other games to draw players away, because they would still be latched on to the new organization. Those groups who join would have more players for their game as well. Think Gamespy and what it did for online gaming.

Call it more or less ?One group to rule(not really)them all, One group to find them, One group to bring them all and on the field fight them?

[Beoren]

I'm sorry, and don't mean to sound like an *, but I think this whole thing is just stupid. If somebody is curious about another sport, they can just look it up online, or maybe try to make a practice/event. If you have fun, hell, go back some other time. If they think you're cool, try to get the body count on our side up too. If you do an event with mixed-sport rules, you have the porential to have a decent sized event, but by and large, when it's NERO rules, you'll see NERO fighters, when Amptgaurd rules are in play...well, you see what i'm getting at. why not just try to recruit for Bele? those in dag who aren't hostile towards us can feel free to come out whenever they choose, and plenty of them do as it is. Hell, the rangers section of House Dregoth is based in Philly, coming out of a Dag realm. Things on a lower scale between Dag and Bele are getting better just due to old friends staying in contact, and chance meetings of local groups, stuff like that. why not just let things get better with time, and let people mature a bit before trying it out in the open. the simple fact that you guys are going to have to pussyfoot around this whole issue to avoid getting sued is probably a good sign that they aren't ready for this. and if they never are? too bad. the worthwhile people will see past the * and come on out anyways.

[Tren]

Things on a lower scale between Dag and Bele are getting better just due to old friends staying in contact, and chance meetings of local groups, stuff like that. why not just let things get better with time

That's all we really want to do is help foster that small scale sense of community between both games, and hope it ultimately grows to something bigger. Obviously, not everybody has a Dag practice near them or is able to drive to a Dag event. But I think all those who do believe in the idea, and really don't care what name is at the top of the waiver, should make an effort to attend any foam fighting game in their area. Obviously Dag and Bel lend themselves more so to that kind of cooperation, but you can bet if there were an amtguard group near me I'd go give it a shot.

As for that conversation on the Dag boards, it was going great up until Graymael went nuclear on the thread. I haven't been banned yet though, so who knows?

[Beoren]

What i'm saying is, don't try to force this. None of that "oh, if you won't switch your avatar, you're just talking out your *." or the whole trying to pressure people into going to certain sport's events. let them go where they wish. if you want them to go, just suggest it, don't try to push it or coerce them.

still waiting on a link to this thread, btw. and the fact that he locked it kinda proves what I was saying about that, doesn't it? there isn't freedom of speech on the Dag boards. i'm surprised they just locked it, i was expecting deletion.

[Talion]

I'm not going to post a link, but it's quite easy to find if you head over to the boards in question. Tren's post is actually regarding starting a Dag group near NIU. The post actually wasn't locked, which is what confused me. Rather, Tren was given a "warning" of sorts for suggesting that Bele members be contacted.

Now, I realize, Tren, that you were suggesting that the Bele members join up a new group; however, you sort of need to realize that some of these people might be a touch paranoid. The fact that you said you were from another group as opposed to just saying you were in Belegarth, and then telling people to contact Belegarth members probably seems suspicious to them is all.

In other words, I don't really think that post could even remotely be considered to be representing our or their ideas on some kind of cooperation. So, if there is indeed another thread where an open discussion is taking place, I'd like to see it. I couldn't find it.

[Tren]

It's impossible to say Belegarth on the Dag boards, which definitely puts some constraints on how to word things. In order to not have it asterisked out the best you can do is say other game or sport.

And You're right, they are sensitive about the topic of other games (even downright paranoid). That in mind, it's not particularly tactful and definitely not effective to simply go in and lay out the whole concept of fighters fighting in both groups. If the moderators consider talking to people from the other sport seditious, I'd had to see what they think of Foam Fighters Union.

Fortunately we're not trying to convince the moderators of Dag. I offered to support a couple fledgling Dag realms, and suggested talking to belegrim about getting support for their new practices. If that's ban-worthy, I'll still try to visit those new practices and offer them any support I can. Whatever the moderators of Dag do doesn't change the idea behind inter-sport cooperation.

[Atman]

From what I can see things seem to be turning more and more ambitious as this thread goes on. Developing new rule sets and whatnot might be interesting hypotheticals, but as Tren siad, small scale should probably be the goal for the time being. The most immediate way I see to tear down barriers is to promote things like both sports attending smaller, local events that don't represent a large expenditure of money/time, or joining up for the occasional Dag/Bel practice when it's possible. Personally, I think you'd be hard-pressed to find any smaller realm that wouldn't want to have more people at practice. Looking at the Dag chapter list, it looks like it's possible to contact just that individual realm and side-step any dag board filters.
I think the majority of the points made in the proposed document are great except for number two; it's just too soon and asking too much of people to try attending major events of both sports.

Regarding Avatars: I know putting it in a sig was discussed; is it possible and how can I do it?
Everyone putting it up in their avatar sounds like it would defeat the purpose of having it.

[ICARUS]

just insert this text into your sig:
[IMG]http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q248/trixster_87/bele-dag/sig.jpg[/IMG]
its from my album so I'll make sure to leave it up. If your not comfortable with that then you need to find someone who has it in thier avatar left click on it choose save picture as. Then upload that file into you choosen picture hoster.

[Peregrine]

Tren

I think that your disscusion was counter perductive to your cause. you should have let it drop after the first warning.


http://www.dagorhir.com/cgi-bin/ultimat ... 1&t=001040

[Argyll]

banned or not, the people got information on attending the more convenient practices in the area.

[ICARUS]

But looking at their overall view its safe to say FFU= Usa DAg= Iraq. Sorry but thier way of thinking was shown after Tren said other combat groups didn't matter to them he was saying he was going to try and bring some people to their practices they weren't dag so the must be evil.

[Winfang]

Tren or Argyll do you either one of you sit on War Council?

Please, for the love of god, QUIT POSTING ON THE DAGORHIR BOARDS CONCERNING BELEGARTH! Every time you post about Belegarth on their site you add fuel to the fire. Circumventing their rules to get your message across, weather good or bad, is childish. All you do is tarnish and taint the public image of Belegarth by your insistent posting trying to get them to see your way.

[V-Hil]

I agree with Winfang and Peregrine. That was very counter-productive and it will effect myself and other Belegrim who just want to fight.

This organization you are trying to start isn't going to back you up if you continue to do what you did on the Dagorhir boards.

Also, there are Dagorhir people who read these boards (some "spy" on it). They (the governing body of Dagorhir) are ready to resist what you are trying to do.

I suggest you attend events and talk to people, not attempt to get organized online because one wrong statement will ruin this endeavor you are attempting.

[Skynet]

I agree with above as well.

[Elebrim]

I agree; I read the thread and think it was pretty clear that they wanted you to back off. The attitude was frank.

Keep in mind that there are more than just you who use both boards; crossing back and forth with comments that aren't productive can jeopardize their status, as well.

[Argyll]

aye, it wasn't my personal intention to make an unauthorized effort on the dag boards, as I'd like to abide by the rules set out by both organizations in our cause, but thankfully Tren tried it, and we've learned from that mistake and need not make it in the future.

Let's play by everyone's rules in doing this. Showing respect for everyone is the best way to accomplish our goals.

[Beoren]

You were told several times in this thread alone that they wouldn't like it, and it says very specifically in their forum rules that you are not to advertise or discuss other groups in their boards- "Do not post about non-Dagorhir organizations or non-Dagorhir events." it's in the rules that pop up as soon as you click on the "Bulletin" option on the frontpage, so i find it hard to believe that it was a harmless mistake. you were also lying to somebody, somewhere. you were either lying when A. You told us that the point of this was to help all of the foam fighting sports (including our own) grow, or B. You implied to them that your primary reason for posting on their boards was to help build and support dagorhir.

glad to see you guys are conducting this little effort so responsibly.

[Barthalemue]

Is tension meant to be heard when any of you talk about Amtgard? I am just wondering, other than a dislike of magic, what the big deal is?

[Beoren]

A good part of the time when you hear somebody talking smack about Amptgard, it's as a joke, or the person is just ignorant. I'm not aware of any widespread hostility between the Belegrim and Amptgard.

[Tor]

"Do not post about non-Dagorhir organizations or non-Dagorhir events."

Like Rome?

Hypocrites.

[Beoren]

"Do not post about non-Dagorhir organizations or non-Dagorhir events."

Like Rome?

Hypocrites.

agreed, but their own hypocrisy doesn't make it any more acceptable for a person claiming to try to cool the tension to go onto their forums and break their rules.