Foam Fighters Union

[Argyll]

Foam Fighters Union


"One Sport for All of Us"

Facebook Group: http://uic.facebook.com/group.php?gid=2266143654


What I see as being the most effective means to accomplish this is to start a genuine social movement within the sports.

Give it a powerful name, a slogan, a symbol to be worn on tabards, or flags, all representing an urge to bring us together as we should be.

I am sure that their are plenty of well known and reputable people in power within the sport that would enlist their units/realms in joining such a movement. Convince the liberal groups to join this movement. Groups involved in both sports for example The Fianna, The Dark Angels, the Uruk Hai (i've seen V-Hil and others at Dag events), and more. Eventually some of the hardcore conservatives that pledge allegience only to their respective sport might see the light and join in, eventually only the most hardcore * would be opposed, and the truth is if enough people want it than it will happen, no matter who thinks their in charge and how things should be.

People would need to give up grudges, be willing to make compromises small and large, but that would be a insignificant cost given the possibility of a united sport again.

The keypoint being that for anything to happen that the idea of reuniting the sports needs to be a consious and living possibility in the minds of everyone in both sports. If people get this on their minds, and there is a strong group supporting that continuously expands, then it is enivitable that a discussion will at least open up, and soon after change will occur

I mean come on, this isn't the civil rights movement, it's foam fighting. If a nation can change, then a sport can.

There will be obstacles, given Dominus living and breathing dedication to not let Belegarth at all interfere with Dagorhir. I could never post this on the Dag boards, saying "belegarth" alone gets you kicked/banned.

I've always known in my heart since I joined this game that they would not be divided forever, and it is in the nature of both games (perhaps not in the minds of those who hold power) that these sports reunite given the goal to spread this great thing that was created and we have discovered to everyone whose ever dreamed of fighting like their literary, historical, and cinematic heroes.



Just give me a name and wear a belt-flag from now until this gets accomplished. No rioting, no yelling, no violence, just wear a flag.

DBU supporting parties:

Realms/Chapters individuals

Reilltoch (Belegarth)
-Argyll
-Neldar MacArtair
-Follar the White
-Echna Dubghall
-Iain MacAthol
-Cailiean MacLaomainn
-Eamon Fogharty
-Goiar
-Matswulf
-Dodgrim
Dur Demarion (Belegarth)
-Finn
Numenor (Belegarth)
-Jikanta
The Kindom of Valdara (Belegarth)
-Shaelyn
-Squirrel
-Hyperion
-Arkirian
Neldoreth (Belegarth)
-Pasty
-Spork
Lowlands (Belegarth)
-Alucard
Dunharrow (Belegarth)
-Roanoa Kiran
-Tren
Orod (Belegarth)
-B.A.M.
Aquilonia (Belegarth)
-Hunter S.
Khador(Belegarth)
-Bruder
Rhun(Belegarth)
-Magpie
Muxlovia
-Shyftir
Taurendor
-Magnus
Loderia
-Grease
Undeclared Realms
-Lady Elestrine
-Conall Snow
-Physic
-Oisin
-Grim Warhawk
- Sir Sasquatch

[Kegg]

Convince the folks at Dagorhir to sit down and discuss it. I am pretty sure that the majority of the Belegarth War Council would support the concept of closer cooperation. I personally have attempted times to offer the olive branch and have met with silence or worst. I still to this day would like to see a coming together.

[Argyll]

What has happened when such meetings have been proposed?

[Peregrine]

fighters cross over all the time and attend both events. however I for one have no desire to merge with Dagorhir.

[Argyll]

"some fighters crossing over" is not unity. Being ok with that is ridiculous.

I want Rome to face the Uruk-Hai. I would pay money to watch that, a lot of money. Movies could be made off that. Events would be truly epic.

Old ideas and sentiments are severely hindering the possibilities of our ganes.

[GvK]

Good luck. I personally don't see it happening anytime soon. Heck, I don't really even think about it anymore. Let's face it, virtually everyone (and we know the exception) is welcome to come to any Dag event at anytime (including Rag) provided they leave the politics and drama and play by the rules. The same goes for Bel events, but without restricted persons (that I know of).

It would appear that Arm has settled into a solid, but smaller national event that no longer seeks to try and replace Ragnarok, which has grown by 10-20% each year for the past 4 years. It's huge. Even if you don't like the fighting, the partying and socializing is getting epic and even if you only want to hang with 10% of the crowd, that's 100+ people. I'll be there.

So do both if you can swing it.

[Kegg]

What has happened when such meetings have been proposed?

Let's just leave it at... it wasn't pretty.




Honestly, I believe the current organizational structures will probably remain. I cannot see the Aratari Board of Directors giving up the sole right to name officers and control Dagorhir. I also cannot see Belegarth giving up its democratic nature.

What I can see happening is a mutual understanding and acceptance. Joint events, cross promotion, rules agreements. Like I said earlier, I am all for it. I believe the majority of Belegrim and War Council representatives would like to see it. Convince the ABOD and Dominus and you will pretty much be there.

[Tren]

I agree with Argyll that the only way to even attempt a reunification while certain people are still in power in Dag would be to build grass roots support. I only wish there were dag groups near me, I'd love to visit and try and build some inter-sport community.

[ICARUS]

what are the differences if any of belegarth and dag? I ask in reference to our fighting not our split.
Also instead of starting at the top with dag maybe we should aim at the masses who play dag. Every country was always democratic just thier elections were called revolutions.

[Kegg]

what are the differences if any of belegarth and dag? I ask in reference to our fighting not our split.
Also instead of starting at the top with dag maybe we should aim at the masses who play dag. Every country was always democratic just thier elections were called revolutions.

There are no significant differences. Same game. Different organizational structures. Really pretty simple.

As far as causing Dagorhirrim to revolt. I counsel against it. It will just cause bad feelings.

[Argyll]

The Name be the Dagorhir Belegarth Union...

and the symbol be:



Black and White symbolize the perceived irreparable differences between the sports, that will dissappear, the crown of course representing the unity this movement will seek to cause.

I am going to make a tabard this weekend with this symbol. Also there will be the letters DBU in black on the crown.

If anyone is interested in this joining this movement contact me via email or pm, i will start putting together a list. Eventually for this to be succesful whole realms and units should vote into joining the movement. I can forsee certain people feeling alienated at first. Should a realm vote to join this group pass, opposers may leave that realm for a while, or forever, but that again would be a cost in my opinoin worth while. They would later rejoin seeing the silliness in opposing unity. I mean what people from history who have opposed unity do we remember as being great people? None? Yeah, none.

I am not claiming leadership of this group at this point. I certainly would be willing to do what it takes, to cause this reunion, but I think their are others in this sport more suited than I. I am still under 1 year of membership in Dag and Bel, and if it were someone more reputable and well-known than I that were willing to lead, I could foresee it as being much more effective. I would still participate with 110% to cause this, and work hand in hand wth the leader, but allow someone with more influence than I to act as the official leader (V-Hil sticks out in my mind).

As far as rule differences goes, i don't see that as a problem at all. After all that's not why the games split, there just different because having the split caused different desicions thereafter resulting in slight variances between the games. I'm no rule expert but from what i know there are armor rule differences, flail head sizes, and other things. Again not an expert.

Again, if you're intested in participating contact me.

[Kegg]

I wish you the sincerest good luck on your endeavor.

[ICARUS]

maybe we should start a private forum for this.

[Kenneth]

I went to Rag once in fairly recent times(XX). I was fairly warmly received right up until they found out I was from Belegarth. Then, they(being very highly placed Dagorhir officials such as Graymael) went into this entire spin machine where they tried to tell me the origins and causes of the split, and that we were all welcome back except for certain people.

I was very polite in listening to them, but I didn't appreciate what they were trying to tell me.

Reasons why not:
1. I've been fighting since before the split. I was present at the last joint Ragnarok. I was just a newb, but I still remember it. They may not remember me, but I remember them. Nice guys in person, not so nice on the boards.

2. Although I had nothing to do with the split, I have eyes and could read
what was happening as the split occurred. I will believe my own eyes and memory over somebody else trying to tell me what happened. I would check the Dagorhir boards repeatedly every day. Somebody second hand telling me what happened just doesn't cut it for me when I went through it first hand.

3. I recall the formative time of Belegarth and the actions of the higher ups of Dag. I remember the bannings, the lawsuits, the restraining orders, etc.

4. The version of history I was being given at the most recent Rag was not even the least bit objective, but felt an awful lot more like propaganda.

Quite frankly, all I want to do is fight and have a good time. I think that's what a lot of people are looking for. It makes me very sad to check in on the Dag boards and see people looking for realms that are minutes from Belegarth realms and not getting any luck. I'm your average fighter. Never sat on a war council or held office. Not a big unit leader or anything like that.

To me, what feels like the big difference is that Dag says they want to join up and have a good time. Many don't seem to act like it. Somehow, the split became half Dag/half Belegarth's fault. I think that's BS. My memory reminds me what happened. I still see the lawsuits going on today. I've read some of their lawsuits. I've read their Wiki edits. I may not know all the underhanded politics that happened, but I know all the public actions. Dagorhir was not the innocent bystander in those actions.

When people say, "Why can't they just get over it," I don't understand the basis for why we can't reconcile either. However, I understand the position of Belegarth far more than I understand or support the position of Dagorhir. If Belegarth decides they don't want to associate with Dagorhir anymore, I understand why that may be. Belegarth would at least be reasonably justified in acting in that manner.

I'm certainly willing to lay more of the blockage on Dagorhir. They are and were utterly uncompromising. I want to see both games together too, but not at the price Dagorhir wants Belegarth to pay. I love the rules for Dagorhir. I think their Manual of Arms is better than our Book of War. If I was in the East, I'd be playing Dagorhir. That doesn't stop me seeing the utter B.S. I've seen Dagorhir pull and continue to pull.

Had I posted this on the Dagorhir board, I would have been banned before you finished reading this post. Had I posted the opposite on this board, you would at least be able to read my words.

Edit: GVK, I'd play more if they could leave THEIR politics at the door. After they started their spin, I stopped telling people where I was from.

Edit: The past may be dead, but it isn't all in the past here.
http://foamcombat.com/
The message above itself may or may not be true, but I remember the underlying cause of the message.

I just checked in on the Dagorhir boards not more than a week ago to see some guy in Iowa struggling to make a new realm when there groups right next to him. You can see them *****'ing Belegarth(Or Amtgard) out, and questioning this poor new guy's dedication. The kid sounds like he's 15 and has no idea what he's stepping into. He just wants to fight.

See many openly Dag/Bel chapters around? Its not all in the past. You advertise your Dag/Bel group on the Dag board. We shall see what happens.

Edit: The thread I was referencing was on the Dagorhir UBB, New Members and Chapters, Topic: Iowa Chapter...?, post creator Rinnanine.

Edit: Best of luck Argyll. I just advise you to be very careful about posting that on the Dagorhir board.

[Argyll]

Thank you, sir. Luck is not going to be a part of this, what will be a part of it is a grand scale dedication to our cause.

Athron of Eryndor brought up a good point to me. The past is dead. The goal of this group will not to be "amend" the differences that occured that caused the split, or for apologies.

From the indecipherable tales i've read and heard about this, I can already tell getting back into that mess can only cause more of a break between groups. The intention of the DBU is to create something completely new for everyone in the sports from a clearing that will be caused by GETTING COMPLETE with the Past, not trying to fix it.


What we'll need:

1. Leaders. People who have repuations and experience in the games. I think V-Hil and Athron would be amazing. Backed by their units they would be unstoppable. I still don't know everyone in the sports, but someone like GVK having played for as long as he has, being as good as he is, and being as influential as he is would also be a fantastic potential leader.
2. Direction. A set of heads togethere working to figure what's next to cause this, step by step. (smart people essential..)
3. Web-Designers. A website will be essential, and a good one. Forums. Somehwere for people to learn.
4. More ideas...
5. YOUR support


What happened with foamcombat is terrible, but that's what we're trying to bring an end to. such needless misunderstanding. Talon stood for the community, and we should honor what he created for us by, enlisting him on this and creating something from the unfortunate occurence surrounding what happened.

[Argyll]

Good luck. I personally don't see it happening anytime soon. Heck, I don't really even think about it anymore. Let's face it, virtually everyone (and we know the exception) is welcome to come to any Dag event at anytime (including Rag) provided they leave the politics and drama and play by the rules. The same goes for Bel events, but without restricted persons (that I know of).

It would appear that Arm has settled into a solid, but smaller national event that no longer seeks to try and replace Ragnarok, which has grown by 10-20% each year for the past 4 years. It's huge. Even if you don't like the fighting, the partying and socializing is getting epic and even if you only want to hang with 10% of the crowd, that's 100+ people. I'll be there.

So do both if you can swing it.

Sorry, i missed your post.

Yes most people cross over, and yes there really isn't that much hate anymore, but the last thing that should mean is that we should not care if we apart in name. If anything this should be even greater pull to end this stupidity and put us back together.

Some people hate on or the other, most are just numb to the fact that we ARE apart. There are people that will not go to the other games events and until that ends we will be apart, and until we are called two different things, we are apart.

Don't be numb, don't let the opprotunity that the two sports together represents pass you by, because you just have become OK with everyting. 50 years from now, do you want your grand kids still talking **** about the other sport? It's not going to happen, because things that belong together don't stay apart by nature's law. why not speed up the process.

[Oisin]

I wouldn't wear a tabard, completely not my thing, but if there were belt sashes, I would wear one. Hell, probably pay for one too, because I can't sew.

By which I mean . . .

/supports

[Argyll]

great. Tabards are lame for some, but we have options.

I will not make people pay for tabards or flags. No one will profit from this group monetarily. I will be happy to make you a sash though. Eventually I will not be able to meet demands and will need help, people who can make their own should, so long as they use the same design (black/white/crown)

[xiao]

I attend Dagorhir events every year.

I'm banned from the Dagorhir board (a lot of them liked me too).

I'm in a Dagorhir based Unit, yet attend Belegarth events a lot more.


A lot of these guys have problems...A LOT of problems.

*a silly idea. and what i believe will be as close to unity as we can get...

Make a realm. Sign the Dagorhir Chapter contract. We can call the realm whatever we all agree on. We can base it out of Chicago (WE GOT LIKE 8 MILLION RIGHT?)

Basically if we are pro-Belegarth yet want to attend Dagorhir events we're are just going to have to give in and play by their rules....but be better than them at it!

We can have a Dagorhir realm that EVERY SINGLE ONE OF US FIGHTS UNDER. If we can get Octoberfest numbers to Ragnarok, fighting under the same Realm....hahahahahaha (who remembers SUPER BEST FRIENDS?)

Ridiculous? YES.

Huge **** army? YES

We are still Belegarth...Just Dagorhir on the side...

Keep in mind, i'm somewhat crazy.

[xiao]

The Knights of Numenor alone could dominate a unit battle out there....

[xiao]

So many opinions....everyone is right...

gah!

[Finn]

I believe this is a good idea but i feel there are too many hard feelings across the line and others who wish to totally disavow Belegarth. If this would work it would create huge events and more unity across the USA for foam-fighting but it would not probably happen anytime time soon unless certain people are no longer in the sport.

So in short..I support this.

[xiao]

Cool Finn. I'm glad to hear you're all for it.

I do know however that there is a surge of newer realms with major number of awesome open-minded people in Dagorhir....

not all hope is lost

[Tren]

As far as causing Dagorhirrim to revolt. I counsel against it. It will just cause bad feelings.

I don't think anyone's calling to have the daghorrim revolt. But if the people who play in both sports, and the leaders of realms who are close to Dag realms can, as you said, extend the olive branch and try to raise popular support for a reunification, I think we might find the ABOD more willing to talk.

Another question is, has the WC ever talked to the ABOD about any sort of joint events or cross promotion? As an organization have we made the effort to open the channels of communication, or has it mostly been individual efforts made? It definitely doesn't come as a surprise to hear that they were belligerent towards you Kegg, but I wonder if there response wouldn't be different if the WC came to them with a proposal.

[Olos]

I have no doubt that Black Company would offer our support, though a belt flag or tabard is probably not gonna happen, but if you wanna go to rag and get everyone that supports this on one side, we'd be in.

We have members in both groups, and go to rag every year. **** the politics, more fighting.

[Peregrine]

as long as Kegg is banned count me out!!

[xiao]

For real!

2 Rags ago - Realm Battles, *Super Best Friends*....HUGE army!

All Belegarth types lines up together....and won!

yeaaaaahh!

[GvK]

Not sure how productive this is. I've met and fought with you Kenneth (at Rag and Equinox 2005), in fact you're the only person to have ever *successfully* kicked my curved kite shield (in that, it helped yield a kill; many other have tried and failed). Moving on, I think I am probably one of the most informed people around on knowing all about the split before, during, and immediately after it all happened in 2001 (I've not "kept up" with it in the past 2-3 years, if there has really been any changes). I also think I'm pretty objective as to its orgins. I'd have to say it was pretty * mutual.

Afterwards, well, that is another story but I won't go into it here nor express an opinion. What would change? Nothing. Suffice to say, I post on the Bel boards and have some good friends who are predominantly Bel fighters.

Hope to see hordes of you at Rag 22.

[Oisin]

I know us Fianna types will be there in huge strength. I am soooo looking forward to Rag.

[Spork]

I'm not completely sure how the whole split went and I think I'm glad I'm in the dark.

This is a grand idea, but I don't think it should have a symbol, be named something, or anything semi-organizational until you have enough support to do so. You might just spend all this time and have things start falling through.

I've wanted to go to Ragnarok since I started fighting, but a lot of the things I've read and the endless lawsuits I've heard about turns me away from wanting to pair with those guys.

If someway possible you could get the two organizations to host a single event together, you might be able to pull something off.

If Ragnarok openly invited all of Belegarth to attend this event, it could be huge, they already bring in about 600+ fighters on the field and equal or slightly lower non-fighters.

I think I'm just rambling, but its some things to keep in mind. I'd support this but it give it some time to get into peoples heads. I can make websites alright, I just recently re-did the HordeWin site (although, I didn't finish some things because I'm not entirely certain how it should be.)

Hopefully everything works out for you and if you need some help, just shoot me a PM and I'll help as much as possible. I can also use Photoshop pretty good, .

Good luck!

[Jikanta]

I would definently support a Belegarth-Dagorhir union.

[Tren]

I think an important thing to notice about this whole situation, is that it's mostly the post-split fighters who are the most vehement about reunification, probably not being so jaded from prolonged legal battles. I think a lot of us are coming in, seeing the situation and thinking it's completely retarded. It's sort of the mindset of "Hey, codgey old guys, stop ruining our freakin game." I think many fighters newer to the sport don't see any reason why our two groups shouldn't join together again, and I feel the same way.

The reason that Dag and Bel separated was because of the personal disputes of high ranking persons on both sides, and some people, (I think it's fair to say primarily in Dag) are unwilling to set aside those differences for the sake of the entire sport. I think if you take the realization-- that lots of people on both sides don't care about the politics, and would rather have as many people as possible getting together to fight and share the medieval combat
experience-- and you share that with people on both sides, you could begin to repair the gap.

[savetuba]

lol. this topic is about 6 months too late here in AZ we don't care what group you are with just so long as you like fighting and having fun. The rules we work out on the spot, dag group visits bel group, we use bel rules. bel group visits dag group, we use dag rules. We come together as a "guild" under any amtgard visits and play by their rules and ours on our own time. We fight with darkcon and nero, even cross with the SCA and fencers.

Just don't mention this on the dag board Oh wait, this is a public forum...never mind then

[Follar]

Hells yeah Argyll. Hook me up with one of those belt flags. I'm a full supporter.

[Tren]

I think simple belt flags would be a great way to spread the word, it's a talking point if someone asks what your flags mean, tell em "This one's for the reunification of Bel and Dag." Take that to Ragnarok and watch people's faces.

[Elohssa Y'trid]

I'd gladly wear a belt flag. Will you have them at Spring War? I'm from Neldoreth by the way.

I think this would advance the sport greatly.

[Argyll]

Thankyou Finn for your support, can we hold a unit vote to see if the whole fianna can get in on this? That would be great. All the O Rags are for it.

I attend Dagorhir events every year.

I'm banned from the Dagorhir board (a lot of them liked me too).

I'm in a Dagorhir based Unit, yet attend Belegarth events a lot more.


A lot of these guys have problems...A LOT of problems.

*a silly idea. and what i believe will be as close to unity as we can get...

Make a realm. Sign the Dagorhir Chapter contract. We can call the realm whatever we all agree on. We can base it out of Chicago (WE GOT LIKE 8 MILLION RIGHT?)

Basically if we are pro-Belegarth yet want to attend Dagorhir events we're are just going to have to give in and play by their rules....but be better than them at it!

We can have a Dagorhir realm that EVERY SINGLE ONE OF US FIGHTS UNDER. If we can get Octoberfest numbers to Ragnarok, fighting under the same Realm....hahahahahaha (who remembers SUPER BEST FRIENDS?)

Ridiculous? YES.

Huge **** army? YES

We are still Belegarth...Just Dagorhir on the side...

Keep in mind, i'm somewhat crazy.

Yes that would be very hard to ignore, and I like it, but not exactly what i'd like to do. I think that's too much of coming from Belegarth into Dagorhir. I don't want it to be A vs. B, i just want an undeniable presence in both sports of people from all realms chapters and units who bear that symbol in support of unity. That's what we're going to start with. Once more people with ideas and opinions on this join, we can start tackling things more agressively but not yet. Just a name and a Belt-flag. I even think fighting as one is a little too much. That gives the impression of someone trying to take over, but that's not the case.

BTW can I add your name, Xiao, and will you wear the flag?

We have members in both groups, and go to rag every year. **** the politics, more fighting.

Can I add you to the list? Also how bout bringing a vote before black company to see if I can add your whole Unit to the list?

as long as Kegg is banned count me out!!

Duh! That's the point. Kegg supports this, and the DBU will not stand for
anyone being banned from whatever product it creates..

Guntar. Can I add you to the list and will you wear the flag?

Spork It breaks my heart you've never been to rag. I have and let me tell you, there is nothing more amazing in the entire world. Everyone whose ever touched a foam weapon should be there. I would like your help and if your willing to support us in a website, that would be fantastic.

Symbols, are very important to any social movement. I know because my teachers told me that in about every class since freshman year of highschool. There will be a symbol most definately, and to be a part of this everyone involved must bear it.

Can i have your name and will you wear the flag?

Tren a thousand fingers could be pointed, but in the end what happened is just a road block. Getting into tha would be a terrible way to go about this. I don't anyone should be blamed, it'll just be a step backwards. We're creating a possibility of unity for the future, and the past will have nothing to do with it.

You are right, many new fighters don't care about the differences, and I'm one of them. We can either wait for the old guys to die off and for us to come into power or we can do something now, and why not.

There also are a lot of fighters who just perscribe to the **** that's been flung, and having never fought the other sport dedicate themselves to hating it. So many people are like "dag is lame cuz i heard blahblahblah" or "bel is lame cuz i heard blahblahblah" It's stupid and it's gotta stop

Can I add your name and will you wear the flag?

Savetuba I am glad your one of the open groups that accepts both games, but being ok with the division that still exists stunts the possibilites of the foam fighting you love. It's easiest to be ok with the differences, but it's much more powerful to stand for complete unity.

JOIN!

Thankyou Oisin, Pasty, for joining!

And yes I will bring a bunch to Spring War. Come by Black company camp and ask for me if you want one.

[Spork]

Oh yes, I know that this is a decent symbol, I just didn't like it.

But, I'll wear it none the less.

Zurokk has been and he always tells me stories, it definitely sounds like a very amazing event. Thats why they should openly invite Belegarth and release all current "restraining orders" from individuals and allow them out there.

If they promoted the "Belegarth and Dagorhir present: __________ (or replace that with Ragnarok)." It'd be amazing and if taken enough time to plan, would be a very very grand event.

[Argyll]

That would be amazing, but how about:
[Insert unified sport name here] present Ragnarok

[To'Gur]

Argyll, i will stand by your cause.

[Argyll]

great will you be at spring war to grab a flag?

[Conall Snow]

Argyll,

I love this idea, and Ive wished for it for a very long time. I would gladly wear a belt sash.

[Oisin]

Ok, Argyll, since this seems to be serious, a few recommendations:

1st--The belt flags need to be relatively small and unobtrusive. Like no more than about 6" long. We want to give a message, but we want to be quiet and dignified about it. Not throw it in people's faces.

2nd--We need a solidified platform. Can't be too out there at first. Starting off the bat by saying, "we want to reunify the sports" is probably not the best idea. Say that we just want more cooperation, that we're people who don't care about politics, we just want to play the game and have fun.

3rd--When you give them to people, you need to explain that a certain level of conduct is expected from anyone who wishes to wear the sash. Anyone wearing the sash is expected to behave respectfully towards EVERYONE from BOTH organizations. Anyone who wears the sash must agree that while wearing it, they must be entirely neutral about the politics. Someone who wears a sash to Rag and is then being loud mouthed and disrespectful to Dagorhir organization and leaders will just give us a bad name.

[Spork]

It's like a Foam Combat Alliance.

[Tren]

Yes, please add my name to the list and I'll most definitely wear the flag. The point I was trying to make was that I think the entire sport is suffering over disputes between a few individuals that ended up trickling down to everyone. And that's unfair to the collective members of our sport, especially considering a sizeable chunk of us now neither know, nor give a flying monkey turd about those politics.

Like everyone as said, I think we need to figure out a platform, discuss an agenda of sorts and figure out what our longterm goals should be. Maybe down the road we can look at organizing a neutral event between bel realms and Dag realms using HACS class 3. It's politically neutral and almost the same game, I think HACS could seriously be a vehicle towards Dag Bel joint events. If the people of a Dag realm decide to participate independently in a HACS event, I don't think it should be a problem with their Dag realm agreements.

[Argyll]

Oisin, thank you, those are great ideas. When i give the sash to people, I wil include some literature and what we're out to do, and what we're out not to do. This way people won't go trying burn down people's houses and such (that will not happen, please no). This is a peaceful and respectful group, wishing only at this time to encourage cooperation and lead to a future invloving a sinlge sport again.

Tren, thanks for joining. Thanks for your ideas. We do need a unified platform, and a coordinated group of heads to come up with it. That's why i'm keeping it simple for now. Sash and a list of names. HACS could be used, keeping in mind that we're not trying to join HACS, but merely it will act as a medium for joint events. Our goal is to create a single sport out of the fractured Dag and Bel.

Conall, thanks for joining!

p.s. Conall and Tren, what realms are you? and are they dag or bel realms

[Roanoa Kiran]

Argyll, i stand with you, and am from dunharrow as well

[Argyll]

Thank you! Gonna be at Spring War for a belt flag?

p.s. anyone wanna help with belt flags, heh. I know how to make pretty good ones, but it takes about 45 minutes for each one, and some other people out there producing these would be good! I'm already looking at about 30 flags for spring war.

kegg may i add you to the list?

...we need more dag names too. How can i communicate with them? Dag boards are not an option.

[ICARUS]

Revolution!

[Argyll]

aye! peaceful and respectful revolution heh.

i'd like to not be sued and to be able to go to Ragnarok.