Belegarth

DBU will be a dangerous name to use considering potential lawsuits from Dagorhir. To be safe we'll use a non copyrighted name. What shall it be?

An organization for people free to join, with democratic control? How about, I dunno, Medieval Combat Society? Maybe with a catchyish Tolkien elvish name or something in front.

we're not naming a new sport

we're naming the movement to bring Belegarth and Dagorhir fighters together

What no "Galactic federation of Foam Masicists" ?

Can't call it Dagorhir Belegarth Union because you'll get sued, and you think the whole idea will work? So many people have tried, so many people have gotten burned.

Madog, the purpose is that members will make a special effort to promote intersport cooperation and attendance, even if we remain separate groups we can still promote a higher level of unity.

And I love that name. GFFM for teh win.

KNights of Boffing, or KNOB.

I don't like any of the names with "Federation" or "League" because it makes it sound like a competitive sport with teams and such. And we are not an competitive sport, nor are we trying to create one. So please try not to make it sound like one.

Anything with "foam fighters" or "foam combat" just sounds ridiculous. Even to me who has bragged about the physicalness and toughness of this sport will think it's for whips with that name. I don't want to sound like a *, but just my $0.02.

I don't want to turn this thread into a debate on the name unless that's what you wanted, Argyll.

Tor wrote:KNights of Boffing, or KNOB.

I like this. However, most people think that boffing means... well I'll just say look it up on urbandictionary.com.

I like both combat games united and medieval fighters legaue

Bruder wrote:I don't like any of the names with "Federation" or "League" because it makes it sound like a competitive sport with teams and such. And we are not an competitive sport, nor are we trying to create one. So please try not to make it sound like one.

Anything with "foam fighters" or "foam combat" just sounds ridiculous. Even to me who has bragged about the physicalness and toughness of this sport will think it's for whips with that name. I don't want to sound like a *, but just my $0.02.

I don't want to turn this thread into a debate on the name unless that's what you wanted, Argyll.

Tor wrote:KNights of Boffing, or KNOB.

I like this. However, most people think that boffing means... well I'll just say look it up on urbandictionary.com.

i agree, i don't want the names league or federation in it. Union, or united works well, but federation sounds like a new sport which will scare people.

can't edit those options out of the poll now, just hope people continue not to vote for them

Combat Games United or Battle Games United would be best becuse they are the most open to interpretation but still getting the general idea. By useing one of those names you would have the easyest time presenting the group to an even bigger audience of new fighters.

Foam Combat Reunification Front is to long.
Unified Combat is to vauge
I think Foam Fighters United and all of the Medieval sound lame and would limit presenting it to others.

Foam Combat Coalition?

simply gonna shake my head

I like "Well-Intentioned But Doomed Plan."

Mmmm... if we want to be fair, we should set a time at which this poll will be closed... after which we either choose that one, or have a head to head between the two top ones.

Robo-alimar wrote:I like "Well-Intentioned But Doomed Plan."

I'd vote for that one if it weren't such a downer

the vote we'll be closed at 12 am tomorrow morning. By the time spring war starts this thing we'll need a name.

Robo-alimar wrote:I like "Well-Intentioned But Doomed Plan."

VOTE!

you guys are right! There can never be a good community between dag and bel, it's just not possible! YAY FOR PESSIMISM! YAY FOR GIVING UP!

Argyll wrote:YAY FOR PESSIMISM! YAY FOR GIVING UP!

That's the spirit!

Dude, seriously. The only reason we don't fight together is because of some ass-hats in the other game. That's all. No need to foster "brotherly love" or "unity", that already pretty well exists. Why don't we put more effort into something productive, like growing our numbers?

It could've worked if it ended in "Action Force"

Argyll wrote:you guys are right! There can never be a good community between dag and bel, it's just not possible! YAY FOR PESSIMISM! YAY FOR GIVING UP!

Dude, at best, you're going to improve attendance at Dag events. To be perfectly honest, No matter WHAT you do, it's all pointless as long as Dominus is around.

Robo-alimar wrote:Dude, at best, you're going to improve attendance at Dag events. To be perfectly honest, No matter WHAT you do, it's all pointless as long as Dominus is around.

Agreed. This union group can be viewed as nothing more than an attack on Belegarth.

Agreed. This union group can be viewed as nothing more than an attack on Belegarth.

Amen!

Fighters for Unification and Cooperation of Kombat Sports

Kaegan wrote:Fighters for Unification and Cooperation of Kombat Sports

w00t!

How about "All-Star Systems of Hardcore Assault Teams"?

Colin wrote:

Robo-alimar wrote:Dude, at best, you're going to improve attendance at Dag events. To be perfectly honest, No matter WHAT you do, it's all pointless as long as Dominus is around.

Agreed. This union group can be viewed as nothing more than an attack on Belegarth.

You've gotta be kidding me. All of a sudden I feel like I'm on the Dag boards.

Don't think it's gonna work? That's fair. But pseudo-nationalist * is a lot more offensive to the spirit of Belegarth.

Democratic Union of Medieval Battle?

Really dumb, Tethrin. That name is really dumb.

Argyll, welcome to the part of the show where you get spammed for about a dozen more posts and then legitimate conversation can resume. Back on topic... I appreciate your enthusiasm, but having fought in a Dag realm pretty regularly for most of this academic year I can tell you that it's going to be hard. A lot of their attitude is politically hardwired. The local Belegarth realm is functionally not welcome at practices, as the Dag realm leader has made special point of preventing any sort of intergroup cooperation from going smoothly. Go for it, but expect a LOT of resistance.

Especially with stuff like this.

Sorry.

Tren wrote:

Colin wrote:

Robo-alimar wrote:Dude, at best, you're going to improve attendance at Dag events. To be perfectly honest, No matter WHAT you do, it's all pointless as long as Dominus is around.

Agreed. This union group can be viewed as nothing more than an attack on Belegarth.

You've gotta be kidding me. All of a sudden I feel like I'm on the Dag boards.

Don't think it's gonna work? That's fair. But pseudo-nationalist * is a lot more offensive to the spirit of Belegarth.

Okay, my bad. Thanks for pulling people away from Bel events so they go to Dag events instead! That better?

Tren wrote:

Colin wrote:

Robo-alimar wrote:Dude, at best, you're going to improve attendance at Dag events. To be perfectly honest, No matter WHAT you do, it's all pointless as long as Dominus is around.

Agreed. This union group can be viewed as nothing more than an attack on Belegarth.

You've gotta be kidding me. All of a sudden I feel like I'm on the Dag boards.

Don't think it's gonna work? That's fair. But pseudo-nationalist * is a lot more offensive to the spirit of Belegarth.

If you were on the dag boards, this post wouldn't exist.

it's this pseudo-nationalism that got us this far as an organization. The problems don't exist with the majority of the fighters on either side, but a few in the leadership roles. until you can change their mind, you can preach unity all you want, but nothing significant will come of it. That's what most people are trying to tell you. If you want to do it, fine, but don't whine when a bunch of realists call it like they see it.

on that note, How about calling your group Belegarth's Independent Tribunal on Combative Harmony Educational Society.

Sorry I'm not enthusiastic about you trying to drive people away from our events, but that's all you're doing and if you think anything else is going to come from this, you're just kidding yourself.

I'd say the best way for you to handle this would be on a local level. Are there any dag groups in your area where you might be able to try this? It's gotta happen small before it happens big!

Hunter S. wrote:I'd say the best way for you to handle this would be on a local level. Are there any dag groups in your area where you might be able to try this? It's gotta happen small before it happens big!

No, there isn't, that's why this is pointless.

You guys are funny.

Jimmy you're the guy that two weeks ago said

"Dagorhir is a chode sport." You're the last person whose advice i would take on this.

No there isn't Dag in my area, but this group isn't about me personally. This isn't so I can make friends with Dag people, it's so that the aggregate community from coast to coast is not limited to notions that they have to be "loyal" to one sport or the other.

Pulling people away from Bel events? This is about unity the idea that there is some competition is what has made the schism as big a deal as it is. A very small group of people caused the split, and as a community people decided that "yeah, a split! good idea! **** those other guys!". People join this sport without any knowledge of dag and are fed bs by everyone telling them that dag is "a chode sport" or the like.

Besides, this isn't Belegarth going to kiss Dag's *. This is a reciporical group, and although Dagorhir membership in the union isn't high, it will promote dag attendence at Belegarth events as well.

Argyll,

I understand you are very passionate about this cause. Please understand that your passion and ideas are not shared by everybody else. In other threads, you have essentially said goodbye to Armageddon. Given the current political context, I think you should also concede that you will have a far easier time getting a section of Belegarth to accept your philosophy due to having a forum to express your viewpoints. That means more Belegarth people at Dagorhir events, but not necessarily more Dagorhir people at Belegarth events.

In your mind, that may be a good thing. In the minds of other people, that is a bad thing. At least you have the opportunity to express your viewpoints on the Belegarth board. Having the opportunity to express means you will find there are more people to both agree and disagree with you.

Just because people are exercising their right to disagree with you should not put in your mind that you are on the Dagorhir boards. As others have said, make no mistake about it. If these threads were on the Dagorhir boards, they would have been deleted long ago. You have the ability to express your opinions on this forum. So do other people. Don't be astonished when people disagree with you.

In the minds of at least some people, you are advocating a one way street. Belegarth to Dagorhir. Belegarth split from Dagorhir for reasons, and to be honest, I would say many of those reasons still exist. A small amount of people can cause a large amount of damage. When one side is not willing to bend at all, and the other side has flexibility, you will find the side with flexibility is the one that often "loses out". Given history, the disdain for Belegarth to "unite" with Dagorhir has at least some basis.

You do have a right to post on this board about what you wish. Having the right to post something does not make it less offensive when you advocate abandoning one of Belegarth's events in favor of a Dagorhir event.

Having the right to post something does not mean you always should. Dominus has the right to run his forums as he sees fit. I don't believe Amtgard would be very happy if I showed up and essentially asked them to abandon SKBC or one of their other events in favor of Spring Wars. Common courtesy, consideration, and discretion should temper my posting frenzy on their E-Samurai website.

Good points Kenneth. I am biased, I'd love to see hundreds of Bel fighters at Rag. I went to Equinox in 2005 and I still want to go to an Oktoberfest soon, maybe this year. Of course, I've always supported crossing-over between Dag and Bel. I have supported the status quo of "separate but equal" games for years (i.e., gave up hope or even the need for reunification).

I'm very thankful for the freedom of these boards, and i'm very pleased that the board leaders but this forum up (other medieval rercreations sports), it was what inspired me in the first place.

Of course people will disagree, i anticipated that to say the least. I will of course debate their disagreement. I haven't told anyone to keep their opinoins to themselves or anything like that.

Yeah, in the end if all nastiness is ended, and two sports became one again, certain events would have to go. Armageddon and Ragnarok have always been in competition for attendence, and how can they not be. Two sports schedule their largest events within a few days of eacother. I've said before, i don't make the distinction between to sports. I don't play Belegarth during the week, and then all of sudden fight Dagorhir on the weekends. I foam fight, and by that token if two events conflict, and I can only make one, I'll choose the bigger better one with cooler stuff and not feel like i'm disavowing a sacred oath to some name that was created out of political upheaval by someone else.

I feel bad for the people that are so caught up in the politics that they can't enjoy both sports, and they don't go to Rag cause of stuff they've been told, or heard, or have had stuffed down their throats. It is the samn * game, and if you don't like certain people then don't hang out with them. There's a lot of awesome people that don't meet eachother because of certain opinoins of a few specific people.

Argyll wrote:There's a lot of awesome people that don't meet eachother because of certain opinoins of a few specific people.

Good point.

I foam fight, and by that token if two events conflict, and I can only make one, I'll choose the bigger better one with cooler stuff and not feel like i'm disavowing a sacred oath to some name that was created out of political upheaval by someone else.

I think this is where you're going to find alot of people in disagreement. It doesn't seem fair to be upset at loyal fans of this sport if maybe they don't want to go to the 'bigger better' event in favor of a Belegarth one.

Belegarth was founded under a principle of democracy, and a lot of people insist that the authoritarianism of Dag is the biggest reason they hate it or consider it a "chode sport". With that in mind this one way only "If you're not with us you're against us" attitude seems pretty contrary. I'm sorry you feel that going to Rag to convince people to come to Oktoberfest is attacking Belegarth. Even so, I identify with Bel because I started fighting Bel, the people are cool, and the boards are cool. But if I were to up and move east or west, and found the only groups nearby were Amtguard or Dagorhir, I wouldn't hesitate to go fight with them.

I just set up a foam fighting group at my college alone, because the guys at my practice didn't have any interest, and we've already got a handful of new people who want to make weapons and come out to our regular practice. I'm very concerned about growing the sport. But when people ask me why I'm dressed up funny and hitting other people I don't tell them "It's Belegarth!", I tell them "It's foamfighting!"

Tren wrote:I'm sorry you feel that going to Rag to convince people to come to Oktoberfest is attacking Belegarth.

We don't. But you can bet your * that Dagorhir won't see you coming to Rag to convince people to go to a non-Dagirhir event as benign. My guess is that trying it will get you booted from Rag.

yeah i'm pretty sure i'd get booted out to.

I'm not gonna stand on a box with a loud speaker and preach of the majesty of belegarth. I'll wear the flag like everyone else in the group, and talk to people individually about our group throughout the event.

one fighter at a time.

I wouldn't be broadcasting it at the top of my lungs, and if they wanna kick me out for saying in conversation, "You guys should come to Ok, it's a hell of a good time," Then **** em.

That sort of thing already happens. I saw Vokor at last Rag and he (and Onyx for that matter) asked why I did not make Equinox again in 2006 (like I did in 2005) and encouraged me to go out again. It was cool and friendly. Plenty of folks "pitch" going to Bel events at Rag. But here's the main thing--it is ALL low key. If you do something stupid like advertise it or make it *obvious* that you are at Rag to pitch a Bel event, then it will probably become a problem to be dealt with.

GvK wrote:That sort of thing already happens.

The the only difference I really see here is that we're approaching it from a slightly more formal position, but that doesn't mean we're planning on showing up like some people have suggested and fighting as a Belegrim super unit or screaming outloud "BELEGARTH RULEZ!" If I choose to go to a week long summer event, above all else, it'll be for the fighting and having a good time. If I choose to go to Ragnarok over Armageddon, it'll be with the added intention of talking with other people who're interested in having a good time foam fighting, and discretely, politely encourage them to come to try visiting Bel events to.

I'm most certainly cognizant of the freedom that we all enjoy on this forum, which is why I frequent these boards instead of Dag or anywhere else, it's a fun place with good conversations and a great vibe. I'm not fond of the 1984 feel of the Dag boards, it makes for lame conversation.

So I'm more than willing to hear disagreement in exchange for the right to say what I think. Plenty of people already voiced their thoughts, "This won't work," "It's been tried before." But if someone wants essentially accuse me of "treason" against one foam fantasy sport because I'm encouraging people to attend another, I've still got the right to say how puerile it is, and plain stupid.

Edit: There's been a big surge of people going to Amt events and supporting cross-sport cooperation, how is that any different?

I am not a defeatist. My approach to the situation is this: if a change is to be made, it is made by individuals. Movements get bogged down with difficulty in communication, other movements attacking their agendas, and leadership slowdown.

My suggestion is thus; begin your campaign with individuals, leading by example. Cross over to events, take everything that hits you, even lightly, do not be cliquish or rude. Make friends with new fighters and respect veterans, contribute to feast efforts and cleanup. Do all this with no motive, save to help progress events as fun for all. Discuss openly with your peers what you like about other events you've been to, and keep an open mind to what they have to say.

To be short, don't be a politician, be instead a constructive member of both groups as you can. Lead by example.

People are banned, you can't control that, you won't win that argument either. What you can do is be thankful that there is another organization where they can play, and a name they can use. It is not ideal, but launching an aggressive campaign on this probably won't heal the rift. We can depend on the new generation to do that, but only if we foster that thinking.

I didn't want to type it all again.

That's very much what I intend to do, but wear a belt flag while doing it

Foam Fighters Union wins

This forum can be locked

Argyll, I'm sure you will. I will do all of that too as possible. I appreciate what it is you are championing, and I wish you luck.

It needs to be done sans politics, politics caused the problem in the first place.

Izareth I really appreciate your constructive input, and I'm sure Argyll and everyone else who supports the idea feel the same, so thanks.

Argyll wrote:That's very much what I intend to do, but wear a belt flag while doing it

Foam Fighters Union wins

This forum can be locked

Done