Is there a tougher version of Belegarth?

[debuenzo]

cool, i love creativity myself

so good luck and PLEASE! record and upload some youtube vids for us to get an idea of what you end up doing

[Big King Jimmy]

I think the reason that you don't like it is mostly that you've never seen it. I mean, you're just choosing to pad yourself instead of the weapon, and it's not like we're fighting with pillows on sticks, but until you actually get his you don't know that. Our blows CAN cause pain, but they usually don't. If you saw us you'd understand.

Another thing people don't understand too, is that if you try to find us on like, you-tube or something, you ALWAYS find the middle to lower grade groups of fighters. The guys that are really really good are too busy fighting to care about filming it. So while a lot of us are able to hit like a truck with a foam padded weapon, you see the 17 yr old new guy who runs up, taps someone and backs away 5 feet.

[Kirethorn]

I've been beaten up heaps of times with pool noodles, i've even had some pretty intense pillow fights. The main thing I have against belegarth weapons is the flex factor, the weight, and the fact that you have to punch block to stop anything. So it has nothing to do with how the weapons are wielded but the properties of the weapon itself.

If you think about it, CAC is the natural evolution of the solutions to my problems: Weapons Flex, Get hard weapons. Hard weapons hurt, Armour yourself. Armour too expensive, Create your own. Simple, and not worth the negative comments about power tools and my level of experience or IQ.

Debuenzo mate, i'll try to get some videos for you as soon as it's up and running.

[Arrakis]

If your weapons are flexing more than 10 degrees, you're doing it wrong.

What the hell were you using for cores? Get some 3/4" round fiberglass or some rattan or some 1" ash and build Bel weapons on that. And you don't have to punchblock; I hardly ever punchblock any more. Mostly, I counterstrike.

[Dabbanoth]

Order some oblong cores from edhellen, goodbye flex.

[Cib]

He was probably using PVC, which does flex.

[Fangesta]

Flex...there should NOT be an extreme amount of flex on any bel weapon..in fact you'll find there's a small degree of flex on true fighting swords...just the natural boundaries of gravity and inertia

The weight...are you wanting uber light??? We personally weight our and have the counterweight so that they are historically accurate weight to a real sword

Punch block..I don't punch block..I've only ever done it once and that left in bruised fingers..that's just bad form.

[Big King Jimmy]

As has been said, average weapon flexes about 10-20 degrees.

If you're looking for something with historical weight, you've come to the wrong place. The <1% of the sport who does weigh their stuff this much will argue with me, but the truth is that at least half the sport tries to shave as much weight off as possible.

Punch blocking is also a norm.

Have fun with whatever you choose to do.

[Jeggrim]

God, I've been reading this thread since it started, and until now haven't felt the need to respond, until the level of lameness reached critical mass...**** I don't even know where to start....

First off, you've never fought before. You have no idea what your talking about. You have no idea what fighting is like. Swinging a 2x4 at a door is NOT fighting. Having a **** fight with some drunk buddies, and smacking eachother around with golf clubs is NOT fighting. Jesus. If you've never been involved in ORGANIZED combat with rules and such, starting some hack group is not the answer.

Moving forward:

And what I mean by pulled blows is doing it hard, but discouraging taking your sword in two hands and trying to break it on a person's kidney.

Not hardcore. I thought you wanted MORE hardcore than belegarth. I've seen shots that leave people * blood for week.

When I said the armouring rules are a bit much, I meant on the wallet. Their armour that i've seen dosn't just imitate medieval armour, it is medieval armour. And all that steel and padding is a bit beyond my resources. Hence CAC making use of everything that can be safely used to absorb the force of a blow. It isn't about wearing minimal armour, it's about using creativity to come up with your own.

The level of non-understanding on your part blows me away. Do some research. A lot of SCA fighters that I have seen, wear hocky pads under a tunic, with a weight lifting belt for kidney protection, and black plastic leg/arm armor (which from about 10' looks almost identical to black leather.) Really thats not denting the wallet too bad...I mean maybe 100 bux or less? A cheap * basic helm can be picked up for like $150 new...and I'm willing to bet that some older fighters have some old beat up gear that they'd be willing to part with for cheap. So maybe like 250 to get set up? Not exactly a **** heaping wad of cash.

I might just have to create my own battlefield equivalent of it where you can just wear a couple of shirts to lesson the impact but otherwise belegarth striking rules, rattan/wooden weapons, and unarmed combat allowed.

Your explanation of your game totally missed the mark on that one.

What your left with is a bunch of dudes wearing seriously stupid **** (cardboard? *?) running around pulling blows on people who decided that all they could afford was a role of toilet paper for armor.

Don't worry I got more...

But you must have a helmet of some kind that offers enough protection to prevent serious damage from accidental head strikes.

Ok, if you want to be *hardcore* why not just get a real helm, and allow headshots?

People will be armouring themselves to the max out of nessecity, but you'll be paying for your armour in bruises instead of broken bones, as we'll only openly encourage pulled blows aganst lesser armoured opponents. No missile weapons allowed, no throwing weapons.

I thought you wanted to get away from the "armored to the max" fighters...not very hardcore when all your fighters are wearing mattresses duct taped around themselves....and god, I can't get over the PULLING BLOWS...omfg you are a walking contradiction mate.

new members will be by invitation only.

That made me **** laugh out loud for real.

The main thing I have against belegarth weapons is the flex factor, the weight, and the fact that you have to punch block to stop anything.

Ok, like I said before, do some research. Like everybody else said, our weapons don't flex that much. I've been downed maybe like twice from a shot that only landed because of the weapon flex. The weight, ok I can concede to that point. They are super light and super fast. But once you get into it, everything else feels so slow and labored. I fight SCA, and I actually have practice for the SCA about 2 hours before my realms bele practice starts. After swinging rattan for 3 hours, I feel INSANE fast at the bele practice.

Yes people punch block. But saying you HAVE to do it to stop anything is insanely stupid. I never punch block (intentionally anyway) I use my shield, and if that fails, I just dance my **** outta the way.

A lot of good people have given you good solid advice, founded on EXPERIENCE (something with you yourself have admitted to NOT having). Open up your ears. LISTEN.

If not, have fun looking like a jackass in a bunch of cardboard, newspaper, and duct tape armor, swinging your rattan swords, and "pulling your blows" against jackhole nooblet who decided that he didn't want to wear "enough" armor and yet you still let him play.

Seriously, go fight SCA.

So in conclusion good luck.

--Jegg

Oh and those who know me, know I'm an *, but not this BIG of an *. You really brought out the best in me with this asinine ****.

[Derian]

Win

**** epic.

[Dane]

Somebody get this kid a Happy Meal!

[Dabbanoth]

Jeggrim is my best friend.

[Cib]

Eash, relax guys, he really just made a simple poor description choice in this thread title. If he wants to try to make his own game, that is cool. Should he check out his local SCA group first? Yes. But if he doesn't? Oh well. Give they guy a break, Not saying don't tell-'em it is a bad idea if you think it is, just maybe be a bit nicer.

I personally think that one day when he actually sees bel in person, he will love it, but until then, let em experiment, maybe then he will better understand why things work they way they do with us.

It can be hard to know what bel is actually like when you have never seen it first hand, heck I have still to meat (in person) anyone who plays because I haven't personally been involved in their knowing (ether personally told then, or told somebody who told them). One of my biggest fears about going to an even is getting there and discovering I have done EVERYTHING wrong.

* Kirethorn, keep us posted on how things work out for you.

cool, i love creativity myself

so good luck and PLEASE! record and upload some youtube vids for us to get an idea of what you end up doing

Yes pleas do.

[Arrakis]

Just another note re: armoring in the SCA: I'm just getting started and will be sewing/riviting myself a 15th cent. Wisby coat-of-plates (hopefully soon) out of 55 Gal olive barrel plastic and cloth. That's passing body armor.

[Winfang]

Arrakis,
Did you finally get hooked up with the SCA group out there? Have you got a chance to throw some shots or are you in the phase of getting armor together before you get out there? I know of some East Kingdom guys in VDK as one of my friends group up out there and was introduced to the SCA out there.

Kirethorn,
The most important thing is having fun but keep an open mind. You don't want to miss out on something that's awesome because on the surface it doesn't look like what you want. Give SCA a shot, they should have plenty of loaner equipment. If it's not your cup of tea, that's cool. SCA and Belegarth are very fun organized games.

[Forkbeard]

I've also been holding my tongue all this time, but now I gotta back up me boy.
This is the stupidest, most irresponisble thing I've head latelty.
YOU ARE AN AUSTRAILIAN DOUCHE BAG. Stop it.
I have no problem with people doing their own thing UNTIL they start to endanger their friends and drive people AWAY from fighting. WHen your freinds start to need medical attention, you will loose all of your fighter.
THen they will advise THIER freind to stay away from Medieavl combat because it is "dangerous" never knowing that you found out about it from smart, responsible poeple and then **** it up with YOUR retarded ideas and predjudices.
YOU HAVE NEVER FOUGHT INH ANY REGULATED ORGANISATION. You definetly have never fought in Belegarth with proper equiptment. You cannot, therefore, make ANY judgemements on our weapons or fighting styles.
I think you should either:
A)go fight with your local SCA people.
B)find another hobby.
Leave Belegarth alone.
FB

[debuenzo]

Kirethorn,
dont listen to these blokes....they don't realize that some of us are just a little more hardcore/ extreme about fighting

pussies!

so Kirethorn, if you're still alive and reading this....go, fight, WIN
(and post youtube vids)

[bangor]

A big problem here is an American misunderstanding of Australians. The Aussies are just a bit more hardcore. Later on that.

I can offer a very different perspective on the matter, because I come from Amtgard, which is a speed tap game nowadays (much to my chagrin). Although the fighting concept is not what you are looking for, the on-the-cheap definitely is. Our folks build their own equipment, but are generally below the poverty line to lower middle class.

Kirethorn, what exactly is your motivation here, accuracy and realism of the weapons, correct combat technique, or just a desire to be hard? To give an example, we play a game called 'jugging' in Amtgard, and as it turns out, the Aussies have an entire jugging league! The Australian version, however, is far more hardcore, yet sustains less injuries.... If you are anything like your countrymen, you can do the same.

[Forkbeard]

There is a profound difference between Hardcore and **** retarded.
I wouldn't bet on Aussies being harder than us. That totaly a case by case thing.
Anyway, I said my peice, I'm out.
I hope you get your fingers broken.
Have fun.
FB

[Titan G]

YOU ARE AN AUSTRAILIAN DOUCHE BAG. Stop it.
FB

so much win right there in plain site its amazing

[YAS]

I think I won't ever understand the need for some boys to want more hardcore.
They must hate their teeth/heads/nuts/hands.

That being said, it's pretty amusing that all of these people here seem to be really concerned with what this guy is going to do with his fighting group. I mean, it's not as if he's going to damage OUR reputation. He's not only done us the courtesy of calling his group by a different name, he's also saying that it's not related to mideval combat (he did say that in one of his posts, but I didn't feel like quoting it). So I say let him and his friends have at it, and be "more hardcore". At least we can all be reassured that he will never bring himself, his strange weapons, and cardboard armor to one of our events.

Yasreana

[Ryzby]

Not that I'm in any way a experienced belegarthian or anything but... backyard wrestling is "more hardcore" and the analogy seems to fit so that being said....maybe they should try that for grappling moves. A Good bodyslam never hurt anybody permanently...really.

[Forkbeard]

Yes, this guy IS doing us all harm.
He is harming our whole comunity and our potential new recruits by introducing people to fighting in an unsafe and retarded way. Those people hurt by him in his attempt to be"hardcore" will most likely never fight again and will stop their freinds and loved ones from fighting because, as they have seen it, it is stupid and dangerous.
As s holes who drive people away from fighting * me off.
FB

[Soo Ma Tai]

As s holes who drive people away from fighting * me off.
FB

More Truth from the Master

[Jeggrim]

Wait, are you guys that are saying he wants "more hardcore" even reading what he wrote? Lets break it down one more time;

He went from this:

SCA sounds like just my cup of tea

I might just have to create my own battlefield equivalent of it where you can just wear a couple of shirts to lesson the impact but otherwise belegarth striking rules, rattan/wooden weapons, and unarmed combat allowed.

The bolded part being the most important....

To this:

The creative part comes from the armour rules, which are basically anything goes, as long as they are not a danger to yourself or others (we will be referring to the book of war in this). Soccer shin pads, rugby helmets, cardboard, it's all allowed. But you must have a helmet of some kind that offers enough protection to prevent serious damage from accidental head strikes.......

People will be armouring themselves to the max out of nessecity, but you'll be paying for your armour in bruises instead of broken bones, as we'll only openly encourage pulled blows aganst lesser armoured opponents....

Just in case you missed it, lemme spell it out...He WENT from "hardcore" to not at all hardcore. In fact what he's pretty much saying is

"I want to fight SCA soooooo bad, but I'm a broke *, and don't have the dedication or patience to save up enough money from some armor, so instead I'm going to start some lame * group where people will be allowed to wear **** cardboard for armor (its cheap/free!!!) But wait, didn't I originally say I wanted to be hardcore? Like, just a couple of shirts for armor? Nah, nevermind, **** that. That **** will hurt...Yeah, sports armor will work. In fact I'll have everybody armor to the max, and even pull shots against the people that can't even afford cardboard. God I'm **** hardcore."

Forks right. This CAN/WILL hurt medieval fighting in general. When peoples toilet paper/cardboard/foam/whatever armor fails to protect their dumbass, and they wind up on the news/internet with a title like "Dumb nerd killed in backyard sword fight" you think the mothers won't freak? There goes our recruitment from the <18 age group, as well as people older who may be timid at first.

Oh, and I can't believe some people pulled the demographic card....Auzzies are waaaayyyy tougher than the Americans....nah uh, America kicks the most *....gimme a break. People are people. Get over it. ****.

Thats it, I've said my peace. Take care all. Tip your waitresses. Good night!

--Jegg

[Big King Jimmy]

That last quote, the bold is incredibly out of context. "We'll only encourage pulled blows against more lightly armored opponents."

[Jeggrim]

Wait, did you miss it? The context is there, but its in the entirety of my post...once again, I'll even fix it this time to make you all happy....

This:

:
I might just have to create my own battlefield equivalent of it where you can just wear a couple of shirts to lesson the impact but otherwise belegarth striking rules, rattan/wooden weapons, and unarmed combat allowed.

to this:

as we'll only openly encourage pulled blows aganst lesser armoured opponents....

Thats my point right there. Even the "lesser armored opponents" doesn't change that fact that he went from "a couple or shirts" to "armored to the max." Initially he made no mention of "pulling blows" and in fact wanted to fight full speed with just his t's on...now anyone NOT armored to the max is subject to pulled blows? Pointing out how what he wanted/his definition of hardcore devolved throughout the thread.

Cleared up?

--Jegg

[Big King Jimmy]

Right, my problem is that the whole statement should have been bolded, instead of just the part that best supported your argument.

[Kirethorn]

I am in touch with my local SCA club and am finding out more about the sport, but from what I have heard about it, the SCA in Toowoomba only has about 6 members and they meet once a year. I am still e-mailing them and finding out more.

My goal for things like this is mediaval reenactment in combat only. Dress, Armour materials, Events, Feasts, i don't really care about their realism. Only learning how to fight in a medieval style. I'm a student of Ancient history and have a personal passion for gladiators. Basically I want something that will train me in mind and body so that if I was teleported back in time, given the equipment and sent onto a battlefield I would know what to do. Belegarth would do splendidly for this but as metioned before i have issues about the weapons. I'm not saying that wooden sticks will fulfill my every desire, only that they are closer to the actual thing without being homicidal, I do not like practicing with (especially live) steel as the risk of injuries (cleaved limbs, etc) is too great. A lot of weight on even a blunted edge does a lot of damage. The human body can accept bashing injuries better than cutting ones. CAC dosn't include head shots so far as the risk of injury with the type of armour used is too great, what i said about pulled blows is common courtesy to a disadvantaged opponent, it shouldn't have to be stated, you are trying to cause a legal hit with decent force, not kill the person out of malice.

I have never heard of Jugging and would like to learn more.

I would also like to point out that all of my backyard fighting with friends was done whle being completely sober. And that any damage done here by my example won't reflect on the states as no one has heard of belegarth and the only possible new recruits will be ones that I introduce to the sport. As for recruits overseas, this is a pretty hard to find thread and no one will pay much attention to the thoughts of one Australian.
I have nothing but respect for belegarth and it's fighters, any issues I have are issues for ME, I don't think anything is wrong with the sport including it's weapons. It looks absolutely great and a lot of fun. Enjoy it.

[Titan G]

good luck man, i honestly think your going to cripple or kill yourself, but good luck and i hope you enjoy your new sport

[bangor]

I appreciate your enthusiasm, but you are missing a very important concept: If you were to train and fight like a modern soldier, a rifle would not be enough. You would also have to wear the body armor, as it greatly affects the way that you fight. The techniques are completely different unarmored to armored.

The same goes for medieval combat. If you want to fight in a realistic manner, you need all of the realistic equipment. That includes armor. I have great news for you though. You have a great interest in gladiatorial combat and I say develop that interest. Gladiators historically wore only enough armor to stave off easy death. A helmet and waist belt is the minimum requirement, with leg greaves, and maybe an arm pauldron as extra armor for the lucky few roles. With that equipment as a requirement, you can allow head hitting, which is the primary complaint about the realism of boffer combat. I'd also say to use properly historically weighted foam boffer replicas for training, and wooden weapons for tournament combat.

So in short -
Make a gladiator combat group.
Require a helmet and a waist belt.
Make boffer weapons that look semi-realistic and are historical weight.
Train with the boffer weapons.
Get wooden weapons for tournaments.
Do single drills with wood (even steel), and fight tournys with wood.
In tournaments, require that damage sustained to be acted out realistically.
Have fun.

This is the safest, cheapest rough way to go about this. This is your rugby, and we have our American Football (SCA, Belegarth, etc). I hope you take this in strong consideration, and don't lose too many teeth for it. *By Hades, the word enforcer*, maybe even put a red sharpie on the edge of the wooden swords to show wear you got hit. The sky is the limit!

A Gladiator School linky.
A Jugging linky. This is the sport of jugging from "Blood of Heroes" and it's * fun. I like the tougher Aussie/German form of the sport than the safer American version.

[Kirethorn]

Bangor, thanks for the links mate. jugging sounds like a sport I play sometimes we call anarchy ball.
In anarchy ball there are two team on opposite ends of a field with some balls in the middle, the more people the more balls. The goal is to get as many of those balls as possible back across your end of the field and prevent the other team from doing the same by any means possible. We have had coathangers from sprinters running in opposite directions, knees to the face and all sorts of fun stuff. I've been unable to walk after one big match we once had. But * it's a lot of fun.

As for the gladiatorial idea, I'm for it, but other don't appreciate gladiators like I do. Still, I'll add it to SCA and CAC as the major things I may do.

[bangor]

Build it and they will come.

[Peregrine]

viewtopic.php?f=108&t=20129&hilit

[Kirethorn]

Thanks for that link peregrine, that adds another possibilty to my list.
1. SCA
2. CAC
3. Gladiator School
4. Jugging
5. Wompem
6. maybe the Armour Game as well...

[Izec]

After having played medieval fantasy based boffer games for almost 15 years I think there is room for a game that doesn't adhere so strictly to history. I think it would be cool to see something like a post apocalyptic game of melee fighting that didn't have such strict garb and armor requirements. For example, wearing medieval garb wouldn't be necessary, and allowing other kinds of armor other than leather or steel would make sense in a setting where scrounging would be a way of life. One guys makes armor out of tires, another guys cuts up some appliances, another guys finds some plastic, etc. I think this would reduce your armor cost. Let's face it, buying armor is expensive, leather is pricey, and getting tools to work steel is big initial investment. These are just my thoughts on getting in as many players as possible. A person could even make some armor that was made out of cardboard, though it wouldn't count for much.

I say do it, Kirethorn. Create your own game. Use my post apocalyptic idea if you like. Safety minimums for weapons and armor would be a must. I would suggest using boffers (foam padded weapons), but if you really want to try no padded fighting then go for it. I would say you should structure your armor rules simply, like say soft armors (minimum thickness cardboard, unhardened leather, layered cloth) would be able to absorb one hit, then medium armors (chain mail armor, hardened thick leather, minimum thickness plastic) would be able to absorb two hits, and heavy armor (16 or 18 gauge steel, thick aluminum, car tires, etc.) would be able to take three hits. If you aren't going with boffer weapons then you'll be a lot more limited with your fighting styles. Basically, I think you could only safely use polearms and projectiles with boffer weapons. Also, if you use boffers I'd say you could allow head shots. Without padded weapons, you'll need a sturdy helmet and those are typically not cheap.

Again, I suggest going with boffer weapons as they can be made cheaply and swung full force with less of a chance for injury, which will bring in more players. To go as cheap and easy as possible, check out this link which uses pool noodle and PVC. Another option is to, again, use pool noodle and old graphite golf clubs (you can get them cheap or even free at driving ranges that replace golf club heads), check out a tutorial here. I know the Belegarth guys will think using pool noodle is retarded because it blows out so quick, but it is cheaper, faster, and easier than making a nice flat blade. Keep in mind you'll be replacing that pool noodle foam often, though, but that's just a trade off for ease of construction.

Go for it, dude. If one game doesn't do what you want then go find or create something that does. Also, though, I would read up on various rule systems and think about why their safety standards exist. These are games that have been play tested thoroughly and fought with for years. Consider that their guidelines exist for a reason (to avoid unnecessary injury being the most likely, which allows for more people to keep playing). Check them out, use what you want, change what you don't, and come up with something more akin to what suits you and what you think people would want to play. Maybe it'll be a big hit (pardon the crap pun).

But, if you just want to beat the crap out of people and get hit in the process, maybe consider joining a boxing gym or MMA fighting dojo. It isn't weapon based, but it is visceral and real as well as giving you training can be applied to real life when necessary. Just my thoughts.

[Arrakis]

So, start an Amtgard chapter based off of Mad Max movies?

Armor points... I swear...

[Izec]

You're saying that giving armor different values is stupid? Do you really think that 3/16" soft leather is going to give you the same protection as steel plate? Seriously? The effectiveness of certain armors has been debated a lot within this forum, not to mention other games' forums. All armor is not equal.

[Dane]

We thrive on using simple rules. Having multiple armor points gets complicated and convoluted when keeping track of points on five separate target areas and opens the door for intentional abuse of the rules. That's not to say that having armor points is "wrong," but in Belegarth, we find that keeping the rules simpler facilitates faster, cleaner play.

[Arrakis]

Anything that's actually tough enough to be called "armor" (i.e. anything I would wear in the SCA) is tough enough to take a lot more than 3 hits from a sword before I start losing limbs. Realism is RIGHT OUT when you include historical plate armor. People were known to call for 50+ blows of the axe to be struck to an opponent before a win could be declared in some Pas d'Arms in France in the 1400s.

So, if you want to let armor into a system, go for it. But one point is enough. Otherwise you end up where, well, Amtgard is: people who have 6 points of armor over every part of their body.

[Izec]

I can agree with idea that simplicity equals ease. But if simplicity were truly the way then why does Belegarth have five different types of weapons that all do different damage?

However, I do see what you mean about keeping track of hits. But, really, a melee rarely gets to the point where the need to clarify damage is warranted. Most of the time someone will keep scoring hits until the other person declares dead. Even if not, it was easy enough to break and ask someone to give me a tally of their remaining armor before reengaging.

As for the Pas d'Armes, as I understand it, they were fought with blunted weapons and wooden clubs. And if plate armor were truly that effective, a knight would have been indestructible, which is hardly the case. In reality, piercing weapons are the plate wearer's weakness. I will agree that realism is thrown out the window when games are the medium.

If you really want to debate the merits of an armor point system, that's fine, but keep in mind your opinion isn't going to hold much gravity with me unless I know that you've actually tried that system for an extended amount of time. I've played both systems and found that progressive armor values make more sense. If you are going to have graduated arms, then graduated armors should also be included. The way the Belegarth rules work now the guy wearing leather is going to have a distinct weight advantage over the guy wearing plate, yet they still have the same rating. And if weight realism doesn't matter, then why do weapons have weight minimums while shields don't?

But, listen, no system is perfect. These games are just combat simulations. Trying to inject too much realism into them just gets silly. From what I read the guy was looking for something that was easy to get into that didn't involve a lot of preparation, so I just threw out an idea for a combat simulation. The guy said Belegarth wasn't for him, so I merely suggested something that would fit his criteria of being easy for people to equip themselves. Bypassing the adherence to requiring medieval armor materials would go a long way towards what he is looking for. The guy can take my idea, or any parts of it, and take them or leave them.

[Kirethorn]

Thanks for your suggestion. I've also been paying attention to your discussion on armour points. It is interesting listening to each point as I have never played a sport with armour points (or armour for that matter), we continued fighting until either you or your opponent was too injured to move properly. So your dispute is actually contributing to the thread.

As for the knights in plate armour. They didn't wear it to look pretty. They were close to indestructable. Your best chance to kill a knight was to kill his horse and then stab him through the visor with a long stilleto-like blade (whose name escapes me). Other weak points included the neck (though this was usually protected by a coif), or the arm pit. The strength of the armoured knight led to an increased popularity of blunt weapons, such as flanged maces, flails, warhammers (with heads far smaller than the ones depicted in fantasy) and morning stars. These would be used to pierce (using flukes, flanges, etc), destroy (morningstars), or crush armour so that it became either useless or inconsequential. One of the greatest tools for destroying armoured knights was the british arrow storm. The example I'm most familiar is the Battle of Crecy in 1346. Of the top of my head going from Jean Froissart (who was prone to exaggeration of numbers) 15,000 british archers destroyed nearly 80,000 french knights and sustained only paltry casualties. I worked it out and found that the archers would loosing an average of 225,000 arrows a minute. Theses arrows would either glance off plates, penetrate the armour, pass through weak spots, or slay the horse, which mostly killed the knight as well. The arrows were decent as penetrating armour, but this was before the advent of white plate, and the arrows had short bodkin (armour piercing) tips and were fired from bows with draw weights ranging from 80 to 160lbs.

But this isn't a historical thread, sorry for going of on a tangent.

[Wisp]

Just caught this thread.

I'm thinking Esam has leaked onto the Bel boards and I'm calling Shenanigans.

Will

[bangor]

Busted. At least Bangor can count to 10!

[Kirethorn]

Just caught this thread.

I'm thinking Esam has leaked onto the Bel boards and I'm calling Shenanigans.

Will

I'm sorry, I don't understand what you're saying. I honestly have no clue what this or bangor's last post post meant.

[Cib]

Don't worry about it Kirethorn, It happens to me all the time.

[Big King Jimmy]

Kirethorn, Esam is the name of the amtgard web board, another foam fighting sport. A bunch of amt people have posted in here.

[Kirethorn]

Oh, Ok. Thanks.

[Forkbeard]

We don't have 5 different types of weapon that do different damage.
We have piercing damage and swung damage. Sometimes it's in two hands.
Hopefully it will be only one type of damage soon.
Mulitple armor points is hard to keep track of and ALWAYS leads to people fudging their count.
I've spent years in multiple damage point systems, including Amtguard. It's always the same.
KISS
FB

[Izec]

Per the BOW

2.1.1. (Class 1) One-handed swung Weapon.
2.1.2. (Class 2) Two-handed swung Weapon.
2.1.3. (Class 3) Thrusting Weapon.
2.1.4. (Class 4) Missile Weapon.
2.1.5. (Class 5) Head-only missile Weapon.

Looks like 5 to me. And that's without counting how they not only affect armor, but how they affect certain armored parts (the head vs. the rest of the body).

Sorry for the tangent, but looking those different damages over brings something else to mind. Why is it that Class 4 missile weapons go right through armor except for the head armor, where it has no effect? Was it put in there for safety reasons to lessen headshots? And if so, why would you work to reduce headshots on people who have armored protection and just let the unarmored, unprotected people take the hit full force and have it count? That seems backwards to me.