Belegarth

So, long story short, yesterday was (as the title suggests) my first time going out to a rattan battle. It was of a pretty good size, about 150-170 fighters (and about 300-400 others), and I feel like I got a good feel for the kind of two-team resurrection (death tax) battle that they like to do.

I was really nervous driving down, since it was a big event, I didn't know more than a handful of people, and I had just authorized the previous week. But, the instant the battle started, I felt right at home. Everything I know from the Dag/Bel field works (except backhacking, although East Kingdom combat conventions allow everything short of killing from behind) and sometimes very well (I got a lot of good kills by rushing in on spearmen and thwacking them solidly) so overall, I would say that Scadian melees are not all that different from boffer fighting. The minor differences are that I didn't have to worry about getting my knees or shins stabbed by spears, but on the flip side I had to protect my head from them (glaives too). That said, it's basically the same principle as arrows, with the added fun that you can grab the spear and pull if you want to.

One thing I did notice, though, which I think worked in my favor, is that, especially if you are sword & shield, you don't need to have as tight a defense as in Dag or Bel. This is due to the higher minimum force requirements on hits, which means that all you really need to do is deflect a hit, rather than stop or evade it entirely as in Dag or Bel. So, I think I got speared in the face maybe once the whole time--most of my deaths were from glaives to the head (leaving one really awesome dent) or spear to the sword side after the guy protecting my side had been killed.

It was also nice to have someone compliment me on the appearance of my armor, especially considering he didn't know I was a n00b. While the atmosphere is decidedly more flurby than Dag or Bel, it was kind of charming in its own right (although the court was a major hassle, I should have left about two hours earlier and missed all of the shiny hat/white belt crowd's self-congratulation).

All in all, I think it will continue to make a nice outlet for my aggression when there aren't any good foam fighting events to attend.

I really like this post, I find it very balanced and informative.

Geez, now I have to get busy on my kit...

pics of your gear? I've wanted to hop on the SCA train for a bit, but keep making lazy excuses.

Glad you had a good time, man.
Give 'em hell for me.
FB

Good to hear that you enjoyed the melees. The most fun I've had in melees has been the Unbelted Champions battle at Pennsic. Hopefully I'll get to catch you at event sometime soon. East Kingdom is about the same drive for me as the western portion of my kingdom.

Yeah, what Athron said. Post pics of your kit.

Great thread

I've sparred with some local SCA guys a few times, but I have not joined in a melee battle. I'm not authorized yet. I like the way they take the time to teach new people, they're very welcoming. (At least here in Unser Hafen.) They have an excellent set of loaner gear here too. It's a shame that their practice is the same time as Mordor's.





I'm tentatively planning on going to Estrella, and local friends are saying they'll help me get authorized by then.

There's a local SCA unit called Darbuka that throws a kick * party once a month here in Loveland. Middle Eastern style Hafla, with an amazing band, and lots of belly dancers. Draws a lot of interesting characters ! I hear that the guy who hosts the Hafla's was King of the Outlands ages ago. Band's website; http://www.karanomadica.com/

Daaang, that is some nice loaner armor! Kick some *!

Here is my kit, I'm the 1st one in line. The helmets not mine, it's Granifar's. I had to borrow it because mine broke at Pennsic.

Winfang, how are you protecting your thighs?

so winfang u gotta help me get invovled in sca in our neck of the owoods

Judas wrote:Winfang, how are you protecting your thighs?

I'm guessing the same way he's ptorecting his shoulders and biceps: Hidden armor.

Is dat some ABS I see, thar?

Well if I can’t see it, it’s hidden. What I mean is, what sort of hidden armour, hockey shorts? leather? metal? plastic? etc.

Nice kit 'fang. Glad you had fun, Cryn! My shire has been wonderful about getting Thorrinn & I loaner stuff to supplement what we already have. Granted, we kinda came into it halfway there with garb and some armor that could transfer. I have yet to get into a melee, and honestly, I'm a little skeptic/cautious/hell even scared. How much different is from dag/bel in terms of press, tempo, etc? Last thing I need is a panic attack on the field.

Anyone making it to Gulf Wars?

Wow this totally makes me want to look up the nearest SCA practice

I may be at Gulf Wars. I am thinking of driving down to hit up Ides of March, then continuing on to Gulf Wars (since it starts the weekend of Ides).

No pics of my kit yet--as soon as 100 Minutes' War photos are up, there should be a few of me. To describe it, though, it's basically a klappvisor bascinet (no aventail yet) with a royal blue corazzina, steel arms with floating elbows (to be upgraded soon, but they look okay for now) and steel 14th century style legs. I'll put some pictures up here when they become available.

Jimmy, I'm glad you found it a good read. I like talking about different aspects of fighting and it's great that others share my interest.

Winfang, I hope to be out at Pennsic this year (I may be joining House Bloodguard, still have to decide on that) but if I don't make it out to that event, I'm sure I'll catch you at another one some time down the line. It's still some time before I might make the East Unbelted team, but it's one of my goals for the next few years.

And Demox, go for it! It's different enough from Belegarth (or Dagorhir) that it's definitely worth your while to do both. I've been on a pretty steady once/week Dag and Scadian each; for the winter, though, I think I will be going to Rattan practice three times a week, since they're all indoor spaces.

Depending on what I'm fighting will depend on my armor on my thighs, which is just blue barrel plastic. If I'm doing tourney fighting, I only wear protection on my left thigh. Melees I wear protection on both. My biceps and shoulder don't have any armor. I don't recommend it unless you're prepared for some bruises. The only exposed plastic on me is the plastic lamellar I wear.

Not sure if I can hit Gulf Wars yet or not, but I would like to. You can try for Aethelmarc War Practice which is at Cooper's Lake as well.

I don't know many people in East Kingdom and the ones I do know are mostly tied to VDK.

Dagohrir/Belegarth battles are more crazy and chaotic then SCA melees are, IMO. The only scary part about them is getting hit with rattan and that should be gone by your 1st practice.

Been hit with rattan, no problem. Kinda like it a little. I think I'm more worried about some minor claustrophobia kicking in.

I''ll see what we can do about some Middle & Eastern events. We are at the top of Meridies, so crossover into the Louisville, Indiana, & Illinois parts of Middle are definitely a possibility.

Let me know if you guys make it to Gulf Wars, I think we are going to be camping with the Shire (& Their Majesties) but not 100% yet. We will definitely be at Pennsic. Beers are a must.

My gear, although most of my armor is hidden.


Here is Sir Keagan in his period norman kit



Sir Spriggot in his gear.



i think I have some better pictures of my actual armor somewhere.

It's like people don't understand Copy Image Location...





The bottom link gave me the first pic again.

haven't had my coffee yet, leave me alone I will get them up on my picasa site later, its got lots of pics.

Hopefully I will be able to go to estrella war this year, but I may not have the vacation time. Uprising is the next biggest event out here, and alot of idaho belegarth people will be ther. Its over 1000 people so if you cant make it to estrella, make it to uprising

see its about growing enough balls to get hit with a raton weapon......that and having the money to drop on a kit

Cryn, you are thesecond sexiest chick on earth. I love you.
Demox, if you build your bel kit right, you only need a coupleextras to fight SCA, and those extras don't really cost that much. Plus it's cool to have a suit of armor you could get in a baseball bat fight with.
Griff is fighting in his standard Uruk-Hai armor.
FB

Forkbeard wrote:Plus it's cool to have a suit of armor you could get in a baseball bat fight with.

This belongs on some SCA schwag. Classic.

Brenna, I'm a little apprehensive about fighting in a melee too, but I like getting out of my comfort zone once in a while. Should be pretty exciting !

Cedric, I was considering Uprising too. If there'll be Belegarth people there that's all the more reason !

FB, Thanks !



Tournament down in Dragonspine ( Colorado Springs)

When is Uprising. I'll be ther if it is'nt during the ren fair or Memorial Day weekend. I'm free pretty much all the rest.
If you guys will be there I will be too.
FB

I think june 17-21, but not 100% sure. check the kingdom of artemesia webpage for exact dates. I will be there, requesting vacation as soon as I can.

Hmmm...can I swing the air fare???

Magnus, your post made me finally cross my lazy threshold (you inspiring sex machine, you), and I'll be attending my first heavy SCA practice this Sunday, I'll let ya'll know how it goes!

Just doing my job!

Have a good time, let me know how it goes. My first time out at the Philly barony, they said that I hit "extremely fast and remarkably hard." I expect nothing less from you.

Athron, are you going to South Downs (Atlanta) practice? I'll forwarn you right now, they are known for being the lightest hitting of the Kingdom.

So knock 'em out of the ballpark, buddy

East Kingdom dudes told me I have good power, when i have any power. I'm so used to not needing body mechanics to land hard shots that it took me a few practices to adjust.

Brenna Haldana wrote:Athron, are you going to South Downs (Atlanta) practice? I'll forwarn you right now, they are known for being the lightest hitting of the Kingdom.

So knock 'em out of the ballpark, buddy

Actually I'll be at Sol Haven, had a few people back in the day suggest I check them out first (more loaner gear). Kel is coming too, and I'll be sure to bring the heat on all my shots, I know I'm swinging on behalf of all of us foam fighters

Cedric, can I get a pattern or a set of instructions for those guntlets Sprigot? or is it Keagan?, is wearing. I thought you told me one of those guys is making them and I'd like to give it a try.
Thanks
FB

winfang where do u go to practice?

Keagan made them, and has the pattern. They are awesome! The ones he is wearing are a little bulky, but the newer ones are slimmed down, and protect your hand great. I will talk to him and let him know you want to "check em out"

I have been gathering my gear for a bit now, but I don't have enough to start fighting yet. Athron, how was the Sol Haven practice? Do they have loaner gear? I know I am going to Pennsic this year, and I would like to authorized to fight before I go!

I practice in Euclid on Wednesday.

Cedric, can you have Keagen pass that pattern along to me as well? Thanks!

And I! I need to make some gauntlets.

Magnus, House Bloodguard is a noble house of great fame and you could not find a better one to join. As fas as court goes, even I have problems with it, and I am one of the guys in the white belts who stand around congradulating each other.
The key for Belegarth fighters when fighting SCA sword/shield has two parts:
1. Behave as if your sword arm is connected at the elbow by a bunjee cord that is hooked to the small of your back. Twist your body as you strike- a shot that is only thrown with the arm will rarely land good.
2. Hold your sword as tight as possible.

B.A.M. wrote:I have been gathering my gear for a bit now, but I don't have enough to start fighting yet. Athron, how was the Sol Haven practice? Do they have loaner gear? I know I am going to Pennsic this year, and I would like to authorized to fight before I go!

... both local practices were canceled... sigh. THIS WEEK!

Sir Vitus, thank you for your input!

One of these days I need to talk to you about how I would go about making a classy scabbard like yours for my foam swords. But, it's great to see comments from more Scadian types on these boards. Whenever I try to discuss foam fighting on the Armour Archive (for example) a lot of people, like Animal, chime in with extremely unhelpful and disparaging remarks, rather than suggesting anything useful. So I really appreciate your advice, whether about rattan fighting or foam, simply because you're not condescending or hostile on these boards.

Have you ever had the chance to check out a Belegarth (or Dagorhir) event? If I should happen to run into you at one, I would love to talk technique and spar a bit.

Squire Magnus-
I am different than alot of high-profile SCA people in that I believe that the fighting style practiced in Belegarth has value in the study of historical forms of unarmoured combat.
I don't have the time to attend Belegarth events, as I am too deeply involved in my business and trying to retain whatever prowess I have been able to build over the course of the last 21 years.
If you continue with SCA combat, you will find your way to Pennsic.
-V

Sir Thorfinn of the Middle Kingdom (Cincinatti) is a similary open-minded KSCA and has been to two Dagorhir Ragnaroks (2003 and 2006). I just saw him while in Cincy on business. He really enjoys and respects Dag (and thus Bel) fighting and is barely disdainful (he tries hard not to be). He'll try to make it to Rag 2008. He is also a semi-regular on the Armour Archive.

Thorfinn is great, he taught me a ton about Dag fighting in about 10 minutes in 2003, and then even more in 2006 DESPITE the fact that I had just handed his * to him. That's right, I was better at Dag fighting than he was and he STILL knew how to make me better.

If he comes to Ragnarok in 2009 (not 2008, he missed that one), he will definitely be in my Knight's Trial.

Magnus, don't sell yourself short. Some extremely talented warriors are in the ranks of the foam groups. Most just need a more challenging/stressful enviroment in which to achieve their full potential. While the foam fighting groups are dominated by those with fast hands and a real talent for weapons, some of those guys will move forward in their study and some will stay put. Most will not be able to deal with the rank system of the SCA, where advancement can take years, cost countless hours of black and blue ass-beatings and turn your beautiful helmet into something like a caved-in beer can.
I'm not knocking the foam groups (although I think leather helmets should be 100% mandatory). What I am saying to the more serious-minded foam fighters is that adding true harness and correctly weighted weapons and shields will get them one step closer to emulating the warriors of the past that we honor with our study and re-creations.
Geoffroi de Charney said that there are no small deeds of arms, only the good and the great ones.

Thats a real nice sentiment at the end Vitus. I like you.
FB