by bangor » Sun Feb 15, 2009 11:19 am
Well, it looks like this thread has run it’s course, and much insightful thought has come from it. See what happens when you can talk intelligently instead of acting like a fifth grader? If any of you from the PizzaHut board are trolling here, this is what cross game talk should look like, not “nah nah nah boo boo.”
First, Bangor thank you Giggles for such a fantastic reply. The woes that you had to experience could happen in any system, and your experience serves as a reminder and warning of what happens when winning becomes more important than having fun. Oh, and Belegarth has Marshals! Nah nah nah boo boo!
Now, what Bangor thinks are the problems with Amtgard. We’ll start with some history though. Bangor is part of the unit/company Frostbrew, which originally started as a Belegarth unit and became a fighting company when an Amtgard chapter started up locally eight years ago. That spirit carried over into Amtgard, and we still use edhelens and plywood-backed bash-legal shields. For years, the way our park played Amtgard was physically equivalent to Belegarth and PizzaHut minus the grappling. That makes my experience vastly different from most other Amt players, and gives me a unique perspective.
So, what’s wrong with Amtgard?
Magic. Bangor hate magic. As a game dynamic there’s no problem with being hit with a ‘freeze tag’ ball and having to freeze in place. You hit me, you got me, fine. Pointing at me and killing me from across the field has cost me participation in no less than twelve epic melee battles. The spellballs are fine, because it’s essentially a small rock with a special effect. Verbal offensive magic is what sets the silliness over the edge.
The stickjock culture. This is what puts an F into Fantasy and A into A**hole. The stand-up members of this segment are visionary leaders, friendly people, and driven individuals. The swarth of wannabe number-ones are often petty, egotistical, and have a knack for sucking all the fun out of what you are doing. The median tolerates it all, because they are only there to fight and improve themselves, and fighting a-holes is still fighting. What this does in reality is makes a permissible hostile environment, as Giggles noted, and it’s that much sillier when you factor in that they are using pool noodles and golf club shafts.
Light-ash weapons. Bangor hates the speedbat. Krom bless Belegarth and PizzaHut both for the 12oz limit on blues. Seriously. Bangor hates getting lightly skimmed by a three-ounce weapon and being expected to have lost an arm or a leg. There is a concept of intrinsic suspension of disbelief, and it’s lost on this crowd; half the weight of a real sword is bad enough, these things are just ugly. You are not a better fighter because you can swing a twig around faster than steel rod.
That’s it. That’s Bangor’s major beef with Amtgard, and enough that Belegarth and PizzaHut are almost a more attractive option. Almost is an operative word, for no sport is without its problems.
The stickjock culture. It’s beginning to infect Dag and is the current standard for Bel. When a group of monsters states they don’t role-play on national T.V, you can just feel the creep setting in. If you are wearing green paint, grunt a lot, and call yourself an orc, you are probably a duck. That’s role-play enough. In PizzaHut, they say they have no magic. Yet there is a healer ‘class’ that has to recite a poem to heal. That’s the exact same thing the Amtgard Healer does, except the amt-healer uses less syllables. The healer got bushwhacked in the Belegarth rules, finishing any inherent RP in your set of rules (except maybe rule 2.5). I will have to admit that from what I’ve seen at Rhun, Belegarth does stickjockery the right way. You don’t step on orc toes, and they don’t eat yours.
The concept that the rules are simplest. If Amtgard were boiled down to melee-only(which is pretty much all they do now), its ruleset would be the simplest by merit that it doesn’t include five types of combat action, (shield check, shield push, shield bashing, shield kicking, grappling) and two less kinds of specific weapon damage (5 white, 3 green). Stabbing is blue damage, head is always off limits. Even the more complicated armor rules could be condensed into about the same space yours occupies now. This shows there’s still an element of “know what someone else says, not what’s true” still present in your overall game psyche. It’s rampant in PizzaHut. Bangor hates this kind of mentality.
Head hits. Bangor likes that arrows, javs, and rocks can hit heads. Bangor doesn’t like that if you get hit in the head, that by the rules, you technically have to take the following hits afterward. This was the same case in Amtgard under ruleset 6.0. Amtgard currently has the best and safest rule, which is that if struck in the head with an illegal shot, you may not attack or be attacked until you indicate that you are fine. It keeps you on the field, keeps tempers down. Getting hit in the head and killed after makes Bangor want to punch you in the throat until you bleed teeth.
Armor. Leather and metal are the same thing. QUOI?!? That’s so lame Bangor had to use French. You both go on about how realistic this is, how semi-authentic this is, and everyone is wearing leather (but beautiful leather!). To top it off, rigid metal elbows, knees, and full helmets are dangerous, but the whole rest of the cuirass, arms, legs, and partial helms are not. This sense makes not. Currently, Amtgard is the only system that if I drop $2000 on real armor, I can really wear it out to the field provided it doesn’t have spikes all over it. No one ever does because A. Amtgardians are also poor, and B. a wizard will point at you and kill you, or hit you with a freezetag ball, or drumroll your back. Functionally speaking, however, you could wear it. Not Belegarth, not PizzaHut, not even the reverend SCA allows for that.
Well, enough negativity, what rocks about Bel?
Attitude. When I went to Rhun last year, I saw something no Amtgard park or event could come close to – discipline. When the marshal called a water break, EVERYONE got off the field and drank water. When a marshal made a call, no one argued. There were activities aside from endless fighting, some even inventive, like a paddleball competition and an iron man competition. *Note to self: Do not stuff stomach full of fast food before iron man tourny* I also noted a distinct lack of self-assured a-holes on the field even though I would clearly call all participants stick-jocks, save for one orc chick who was a stick-flurb. This shows me that stickjock culture can be done properly and in a fun way. I’ve never seen anything in Amtgard like it, and it makes me want to come back for more.
Head shots. Bangor likes that a rock to the noggin rocks the noggin! The availability of head shots from projectiles inarguably increases the level of realism. It also increases the need to watch for safety but…
Safety. Belegarth/PizzaHut wins on three levels here. First, you actually give a darn. That ties into attitude, but it’s especially visible when it comes to how much safer the game is when you have ‘referees’ that do what they are supposed to. I remember visiting our local PizzaHut chapter, Klar. One of our Frostbrew weapons was a curved scimitar that was heavy enough, but twisted a bit around the core. Tossed. Right. Out. We used that same weapon in Amtgard a week later, and I got cored hard when the foam twisted around the shaft on a particularly robust shot. Second, construction techniques demand more safety than the other sports, with the exception of stabbing tips. Amtgard stabs seem to be friendlier than any of the Bel constructions I’ve seen, but my statement stands: Bel construction is heads above in terms of safety. Third, your play style has inherently safer features. We spar Belodag after our standard Amtgard practices about once a month. We noticed something weird: Belegarth/PizzaHut seemed safer. Despite the shield bashing, the kicking, the grappling, and the stuff that makes the average Amtgardian’s eyes bulge out and say “You’re crazy,” it was safer. We noticed less head shots in particular, a similar distribution of hand hits, and no further damage from the increased selection of attacks, even the grappling was especially safe when done Greco-roman style. I think this is because with a higher weight to the weapons, you throw fewer shots, and you must make those shots count.
Shield bashing, shield kicking, and generally using your shield as a…shield! Man, this is fun. I love pushing the shield down on a legged fighter, knocking them to the ground, and hacking them to pieces. I love kicking a shield and losing my leg for being stupid. I love punching the edge of my shield into the other fighter’s chest and watching the reel back from the sheer impact. Hot damm is that good fun. Don’t have that in Amtgard. We had a particularly obese fighter who would sit in a corner with a tower shield and bastardsword. It was big enough that only his head could be hit. It woulda been nice to be able to bowl him over and do a liposuction via axe, but Amtgard doesn’t have that. Krom bless the bash. Also, that a shield always counts for damage is a good thing, I don’t care what anyone says. Shields were made to absorb damage at all times, not just when they were in your hand.
Grappling. This makes Bangor even more tricky and diverting…Bwhahahaahaa!! There’s been a number of times where Frostbrew members will enter a fight with only a shield when open field is called…and steal weapons by grappling. Man is that fun.
The people. You guys rock.
Last edited by
bangor on Sun Feb 15, 2009 9:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Axe in the back!!
) and they see what kind of dedication and hard work you're putting in. The amount of respect you have as a knight is proportional, usually, to what you put into your squireship.
