Ragnarok Weapons Check...(please read for important info)

[Athron]

So your position is basically this:
How does one person in your organization hold this much power that they can so influence your largest event with an arguably bad call? Who grants that power? How long do they hold it for? What checks and balances are in place to keep something even more silly from happening?

(1) Head in-charge folk of Ragnarok administration (in this case, weapons check being the area of interest) are nominated, then voted upon, by RWC at the previous Ragnarok. They are then charged with executing specific objectives (for example: check weapons!), but are entrusted to reach those objectives in the manner they see best fit.
(2) Thus, the power is granted by Dagorhir, collectively, through the voting mechanism of RWC.
(3) They hold the position for one Ragnarok (unless re-elected).
(4) Checks & balances are: Ragnarok section area leaders budget and work with Ragnarok admins (3 positions that sort of oversee the entire operation, again, nominated and elected for 1 year by RWC), intervention by that year's RWC, and the one-term limit. I'm sure, to some extent, social norms, social pressure, and other intangible mechanisms act as checks & balances as well (as they do in all organizations).

I appreciate your level headed responses but it just seems like spin rather than any type of desire to make things a little less outrageous.
Will

If this was pointed at me, the only spin I'm guilty of is trying to hype up attendance at events by hyping the battles, night life, and other goodies. Guilty as charged. When it comes to Dagorhir and all other organizations I'm part of, I always strive to look to successes and missteps with an objective eye the best I can -- riding the rage train or visiting fantasy island have both struck me as good ways to make your organization less than it can be.

And, Wisp -- my offer of gearing up you and your crew is a standing one. If I were you, I would feel pretty frustrated by now as well based on your experience. So, I get where you're coming from. But, I still personally think Rag is a helluva time and I love sharing the fun with everyone... if getting some shields and swords in your hand would inspire you to come have a good time with me, just lemme know!

[Tannhäuser]

Guys,

I'm just coming into this debate, and really don't want Rag to suck for anyone. Give me until late April / early May so I can talk with the people making decisions and find out a few things for you:

1) What is the full reasoning behind this interpretation (of a very poorly written rule)? If it does involve discrimination against particular units or other games, there's no reason to include it.

2) What's the chance that the enforcement of this rule will persist past Monday? (RWC is Monday night, and can emergency vote on this)

I would never override an elected volunteer without good reason, but I will find out a little more behind what the reasoning for this interpretation is, and if the reasoning is reasonable (so shoot me for overuse of the word reason).

Thanks,
Tannhauser
Rag XXV Event Coordinator

[varadin]

The head weapons checker is voted in each year by RWC. What checks are in place? The head of ragnarok(also voted in) is the only person with the power to take him out of his position. They both only hold the position as long as the continue to be voted in. Im highly doubting laithe will get to keep it for rag 26.

Soo he isnt trying to push people out, he is trying to make them use the rules that dagohir uses. The problem is within our own game people are abusing the rules (of how he see them) and he wants that to stop.

I myself am completely in agreement with athron. I dont like this, but i know its not him trying to keep cross gamers out. Laithe could care less hes not that intresting of a guy that or he hides it REALLY well. My problem is im supposed to be his Second this year so that I can be there to help run things when he steps down. I will most likely just be steping back because I cannot support a guy who is pushing his will on the whole of dagorhir. I can care less about round swords or clubs its how he is going about it that I dont agree with.

PD and shields im all for those rules. Anyone who uses a full metal shield is an idiot and is unsafe. PD is untested at the level that people really need to see to allow it. The only PD weapons we have seen in Einherjar are mine(and you all saw that test) and some from Dedric (who is an idiot who cant make anything safe)

[Azgarehta]

well holy moly when is Dag going to take control of itself and halt the stupidity of these idiots that their own populace complains about?

Will

They did, and its called Belegarth.

[Wisp]

Thank you Tannhauser. That is what I am getting at.

Whether it's intentional or unintentional, it's a slight and from what I can tell based on pretty much nothing more than being difficult. There is a tremendous amount of potential to get a LOT of cross gamers to attend but so far for the last three years in a row, I get people interested and then something pops up to where everyone just kinda shrugs and says whatever, **** those guys. That sucks! This was the point where I joined in with that and said the same thing.

Athron, thank you for the offer. I have plenty of gear of my own that is still legal. That wasn't really the point, but I do appreciate the kindness.

If it's resolved and I still have time, I will certainly re-evaluate my stance and encourage as many as I can to make the trip. If time is too short, I'll think about hitting it up next year.

Will

[Beck]

Woah, Woah!
Edhellen swords are failed at rag? for being edhellens.....?

[varadin]

Woah, Woah!
Edhellen swords are failed at rag? for being edhellens.....?

no. most likely it went through a checker who was being an * and a sissy * when it came to hit.

[Wisp]

Um, no. Pretty much because they were Edhellens. The guy checking literally laughed and said something about Kegg. We called * on it and explained we were from another game and thats where we got our inventory for the event and could care less about any beef with Kegg and Dag. They told us we should learn to make our own and said the pommels were all too small. That was odd as there were quite a few laying there in the pass pile that were the same size or smaller with the colored tape/dots on them as having passed.

We then went and re-did all the pommels and brought them back. They then were labled with a sticker that said, "hits too hard". We then explained we had been using them at local practices for over a month and they were broken in (no slamming them on a picnic bench required). We even explained that if * tap fighting Amtgarders considered them gentle enough, we didn't see the problem. We got the blank stare and the toss over to the fail pile. We ended up just taking stickers off of some other gear and using that or just not getting them checked as it was less annoying at that point. The next day we just borrowed some on the field and didn't worry about it.

[varadin]

that sucks man sorry to hear that. Find me when that type of asshattery happens and I will smack the person and tell them to get out of check. The pommels being to small i know what happened there. There were a few bad templates around rag that were 2.25 pommel holes. The hits to hard is subjective and someone laying the hate on them.

[Kyrax]

I am pretty sure Wisp is referring to the last part of Kyrax's post.

Yeah, I was tracking where you were coming from Slagar.

I was referring to Kyrax's post...

Yup, I got that too. Kind of full of thyself, aren't you? Before posting my take on your Cassandraic comments about Ragnarok's inevitable decline, I did look back at e-Sam and you'd seemed interested in Rag. Which is why I was confused and asked that question. Which engendered a butt-hurt response. My bad for trying.

I know you guys don't believe it, but knowing Laithe as I do, I'm pretty sure it has never crossed his mind that this decision would raise accusations of being aimed at "cross-gamers". Or that it would affect you guys disparately. Sure he knows there's Amtgard and Bel guys who come to Ragnarok, but that isn't the point. There's a ton more round whatchamacallits wielded by Dagorhir and Dag/Bel players that he's having to check that caused the decision. If you want to point blame, it's that Dagorhir's rules have gray areas, and he's the guy appointed to make decisions based on those rules. It's a thankless job, which if you'd run a major event weapons check, you'd know (and I've run weapons check at Ragnarok and other large events, as well as participated in them at Dagorhir and Belegarth battles around the country).

To be honest, like Athron, I don't agree with the decision on clubs. If they're safe and meet the eye socket test, I see no reason not to pass them. Which puts me in the camp of folks trying to find solutions, and there are solutions. If nothing else changes, one solution is to add a wrap of foam around your "cylindrical sword" - half inch more in diameter and it passes regardless. Which to me begs the question of why such anger and invective over this issue.

[Blackhawk]

I thought I would come here to clear a few thing up:

Dagorhirs' rules are a mess, I can assure you that Laithes interpretations of said rules are not aimed at any organization, nor are they an attempt to discourage cross gaming. Whoever said the line about Dag rules being part war council, part typing errors most closely resembles how we got here. Laithe has run many large event weapons checks including Rag, and has talked/argued with more people than most of us regarding what Dag weaponry is supposed to be like.

I prefer to use a metaphor to describe how this years interpretations came about:
Picture a road where many drivers are used to driving 10 miles over the speed limit. They elect a new sheriff who starts giving out tickets. Some people are happy that the speeders have been stopped, others are * cause it takes them longer to get to work.

Cross Gamers:
By definition or by proxy, the crossgamer is expected to modify or own gear that meets the rules for the game/event they are attending. It is not the other way around. No one would walk onto the SCA field carrying a Darkon/Dag/Bel/Amp/Nero/ect. weapon. They are also expected to abide by the rules for damage at those events. Just because there are many different foam fighting games does not give the cross gamer the right to pick which games gear they prefer and expect it to pass weapons check. To think that all the foam fighting organizations should make/interpret their rules with the cross gamer in mind is the height of narcissism.

Bel/Dag:
We both want to grow, we both think we are the best. This is only natural. So food for thought:
Why don't we start trying to be different? Why not allow these games/sports to drift apart? Bel caters to the sportsman, Dag catering to the medievalist. Or some such nonsense. Let people sing the differences to the highest mountain top so that both games get their own followings for the tangible differences in the two. You can sit around a campfire at Dag and hear the bards sing, or chill with your friends at Bel and share the latest technology, and how it helped you invent a new shot that will sweep the foam fighting community? Come to (insert game name here) we are nicer/cooler/better aint working.

[Solusar]

I guess according to Blackhawk I'm a Belegarth player in a Dagorhir unit.

[Blackhawk]

I guess according to Blackhawk I'm a Belegarth player in a Dagorhir unit.

You a guy I have not seen/fought in too long brudda.
And i would not pretend to know or classify each game, I just don't care enough to even make the attempt.

[The Great Gigsby]

Well said, Blackhawk.

Now if only you were that articulate on the Dagorhir boards, I might be inclined to actually read them again.

[Arrakis]

Giggles, he just uses the Dag boards to * with people.

If you read everything he posts, EVERYTHING, in the most sarcastic and for-the-lulz way possible, you'll have more fun.

[Wisp]

Cross Gamers:
By definition or by proxy, the crossgamer is expected to modify or own gear that meets the rules for the game/event they are attending. It is not the other way around. No one would walk onto the SCA field carrying a Darkon/Dag/Bel/Amp/Nero/ect. weapon. They are also expected to abide by the rules for damage at those events. Just because there are many different foam fighting games does not give the cross gamer the right to pick which games gear they prefer and expect it to pass weapons check. To think that all the foam fighting organizations should make/interpret their rules with the cross gamer in mind is the height of narcissism.

Apples and oranges BH. No ones asking you to change your rules to modify your weapons to meet current Bel or Amt sticks. You guys modified them the other way around. I'm * about the change in the status quo. And yes, I absolutely think that it is well within the realm of common sense to consider the impact of that particular rule considering round sticks are common in both Amt, and Bel (to a much lesser degree), both of which attend this event, and both of which use a common rule which up until recently, you also shared (close enough anyway). If you don't understand that point, then we are speaking past each other.

Other than that, you're argument is dead on and I agree with everything you've said. Now, come kill me at Dag Olympics or Gates of Summer. If you don't you're a pansy * who smells funny.

And Kyrax, I'd wager I've played more Dag than you have over the last three years. Get off your high horse already. And by played, I mean, PLAYED. Now you come kill me too or your also a pansy *.

Will

[Blackhawk]

Well then Will, it seems we are in agreement. I'll see you at both those events. I am not the fighter I used to be, but I would be happy to test your skill on the field. Do not hesitate to introduce yourself and stay after the fighting. I don't get to cross game as much as I used to and would love to hear your perspectives on the various games you attend.

[p_quick]

BH are you going to O's again this year?

[Blackhawk]

Yup, I'll be there.

[Gámhain]

Woah, Woah!
Edhellen swords are failed at rag? for being edhellens.....?

no. most likely it went through a checker who was being an * and a sissy * when it came to hit.

That does happen. I have had perfectly safe weapons fail because the guy swinging it was a beast, and the guy taking the hit was a tiny little dude who couldn't tell the difference between a hit that was "jarring" and a hit that was "painful."

Then again, I've been trying to make my reds realistically weighted. (Note: Oak dowels inside a PVC core are not a great idea.)

[Kyrax]

And Kyrax, I'd wager I've played more Dag than you have over the last three years. Get off your high horse already. And by played, I mean, PLAYED. Now you come kill me too or your also a pansy *.

Will

Maybe you have and maybe you haven't, given I'm still recovering from an auto accident in July '07 and the follow-on surgeries. Not to whine about it or play the pity me card , but I was in wheelchair less than two years ago and barely able to walk 6 months ago. These days I mostly arch at Bel and Dag events (about equally), albeit way out here in the West.

High horse may be a matter of perspective, as can condescension and attitude. Despite it being April Fool's Day, my only point of being in this thread at all was to dispell the myth that this was solely or even primarily aimed at Crossgamers. That's really all I wanted to do. Whether you come to Ragnarok or not is your call, it will still be a fun event either way.

So if you wanna come and get some you malodorous cretin, I'll be at Ragnarok as usual (haven't missed it since '88) and maybe at Chaos Wars. Or a western event of one game or another; I've even dipped my remaining toes into the pool that is western Amtgard a few times. So I see your cross-gaming and toss in Darkon as a kicker.

[Blackhawk]

I have to say, I am impressed with how the lions share of the Bel community has taken this interpretation of the rules of another game.

[Magpie Saegar]

Why don't we start trying to be different? Why not allow these games/sports to drift apart? Bel caters to the sportsman, Dag catering to the medievalist. Or some such nonsense. Let people sing the differences to the highest mountain top so that both games get their own followings for the tangible differences in the two. You can sit around a campfire at Dag and hear the bards sing, or chill with your friends at Bel and share the latest technology, and how it helped you invent a new shot that will sweep the foam fighting community? Come to (insert game name here) we are nicer/cooler/better aint working.

"Come to Dagorhir/Belegarth, we're the same and even share many members with Belegarth/Dagorhir!" is more the way I've seen it. Grow one, grow both.

And just saying, I don't like your divisionary goals. I've actually done more bardic events, merchanting, and non-fighter stuff in my five years of Belegarth events, and I've done more talking about tech (mainly stabbing tip designs, and the 4&2 sword construction technique) throughout my first year of Dagorhir events. Your mileage apparently varies.

And now I'm leading a Dag chapter!

But anyway, I guess I'm off topic.

[edgethrop]

our games are virtually the same, xept you have the ones who are medievilists in dag and you have the stickjocks here in bel. i like the fact that my stuff passes both, and if it fails in one game, i just wont do that game because i dont have the funds to build two seperate kits. it would be nice if more and more realms crossgamed, that way the rules will hopefully align more

[Forkbeard]

I've never been to an event where I was made to feel unwelcome because of where I came from.
I've been in CAMPS at events, mostly SCA event, where I was made to feel unwelcome, but never events.
And there are camps like that at every event Ive ever been too. I just think the SCA people feel a little more butch and therefore are a little more openly hostile.
But all in all, I've been to lots of places and alway felt very welcome.
I've had more weapons fail at Bel events for stupid reasons by douche bag weapon checkers than anywhere.
But that has happened everywhere I've been, too.
I have never sat around any event anywhere with no weapons to use, however. At every event by any organisation I've ever been to, there has been an ample supply of good loaner weapons for nice people like me to use.
It's great these guys are anouncing this so far in advance. I've been to many events with special rules. So long as everybody knows about them at home, beforehand, there should be no problem.
I would love to come to Rag. But I'm poor as hell. Maybe if someone buys a grip of armor from me and I have to come there to deliver it. Hint Hint. I give bulk discounts for unit armour.
FB

[athelas]

nevernind

[Derian]

Something like that should probably be taken to private messages.

[Crynolyn]

I think some of you are overreacting. I know Laithe personally, and he is a genuinely good person. I've been on the Belegarth board of directors for a while now and Laithe does not treat me any differently. He doesn't have anti belegarth sentiments.

Making character judgments about a person you don't even know isn't very wise.

Running Ragnarok weapons check is not an easy task. Almost 1600 people last year, maybe 1800 this year. He has a LOT of responsibility on his shoulders. I'm very thankful to have a person like Laithe running it. He is not going to be failing Edhellen weapons just because they are Edhellen.

[Forkbeard]

Here's an idea, why don't as many worthy souls as are able vollenteer to HELP with weapon check.
There seem to be alot of great people who would never discriminate against each other. Many, many noble Dag peeps who want this attitude of discrimination to stop.
If all of you, and your freinds vollenteer to help at weapon check, you can make sure non of the shenanigans we've heard decribed here happen this year. If there are bad people at weapon check doing underhanded ****, they will be cuaght and called out by these worthy vollenteers. Their victims can then be helped along by decent people and there will be no horor stories about prejudice.
I mean really, these poor **** are going to inspecting like 4000 weapons at a time. They will not refuse help from anybody with knowlegde of weapon inspection.
We did this at Chaos War and changed the way stab tips are checked and now look, everybody has stab tips that are safe. It just took changing the way one guy (who weasled his way into weapon check every year)was teaching people to check stabbies. NO fight, no drama, just get a bunch of other experienced people in and get them to start doing the job right.
No, who's going to help at Rag this year with weapon check?
I'm very serious about this. If you want your unit-group-band of **** to get through weapon check without problems with good weapons failing, get a few of your people in there helping inspect. You will be garanteed a fair shake and you'll have some one who know you to help you get it.
If I could go, I would be there every morning, helping out. If this happens at every war this year, by next year, it will never be an issue again.
FB

[Sindaric]

I'd like say that from what I've seen and heard a good portion of dagorhir its self finds the new rules to be ridiculous. I know I do. I'm also posting in hopes of stopping any boycotting of rag. I love rag, and one of the reasons I love rag is each year we've been getting more and more crossover fighters.

By boycotting you'll only be furthering the big brother like qualities of dagorhir. By attending you'll be giving a lot of new dagorhir fighters the chance to see that "hey those guys from those other games aren't evil bastards hell bent on destroying dagorhir. They actually are guys just like me who like to swing foam." Don't be a part of the problem be a part of the solution. If it weren't for some really cool crossgamers I myself may have been brain washed by Dagorhir politics. We hope to see you out there. Peace, and good fighting.

[Arrakis]

I'm going to help with Weapons Check a couple of days this year. Mostly, I'll be heralding, but I figure I can shake off the eventing hangover at least a morning or two to go in and pass good, stiff stab tips.

[Slagar]

Given the slew of character references, I'm willing to buy that this guy isn't doing this intentionally. Given that, however, I'll be interested to see how this plays out. As Wisp said, the 'benefit of the doubt' can be exhausted, ya know? Sorry if I came off too harsh.

[Dedric]

I thought I would come here to clear a few thing up:
Bel/Dag:
We both want to grow, we both think we are the best. This is only natural. So food for thought:
Why don't we start trying to be different? Why not allow these games/sports to drift apart? Bel caters to the sportsman, Dag catering to the medievalist. Or some such nonsense. Let people sing the differences to the highest mountain top so that both games get their own followings for the tangible differences in the two. You can sit around a campfire at Dag and hear the bards sing, or chill with your friends at Bel and share the latest technology, and how it helped you invent a new shot that will sweep the foam fighting community? Come to (insert game name here) we are nicer/cooler/better aint working.

I think "we" is very subjective. "We" both play the same game, same rules, same weapons, same history, same fighters (to a large extent). The difference isn't sportsman versus medievalist, for 90% of fighters it's which group you happened to find in your local area. For the other 10% it's because some douchebag or group of douchebags gave foam fighting a bad name for you, but you switched groups because you love doing it anyway.

At one time I had a higher opinion of the human race. I also had a higher opinion of foam fighters. Now I don't really see much hope for reconciliation. But I do think the majority of us can simply yell "shut the f*** UP already!" when someone starts anti-anything rhetoric. Two groups, one game.

And to answer sportsman versus medievalist specifically, I know a number of fighters who attend Dag events on a weekly basis who are pure sportsmen. I also know several Bel fighters who are very heavily into the RP aspects, both on and off the field. Despite tendencies in Ohio groups, I don't think it's fair to make this distinction.

PD and shields im all for those rules. Anyone who uses a full metal shield is an idiot and is unsafe. PD is untested at the level that people really need to see to allow it. The only PD weapons we have seen in Einherjar are mine(and you all saw that test) and some from Dedric (who is an idiot who cant make anything safe)

For as few of my weapons as you have tested, you are awfully quick to jump to insults that don't seem to be good-natured. I'll repeat what I wrote on the Dag boards last time you tried to say this crap: I build a number of Eriador-style box-and-blues, and they ALL pass just fine. You just passed two of my weapons with no problem at Pentwyvern Harvest Feast. And that's what 99% of the weapons I build look (and feel) like. So suck it. And quit with the personal attacks already, they just make you look like an immature *.

[Kyrax]

Given the slew of character references, I'm willing to buy that this guy isn't doing this intentionally. Given that, however, I'll be interested to see how this plays out. As Wisp said, the 'benefit of the doubt' can be exhausted, ya know? Sorry if I came off too harsh.

Nah, not too harsh. From my perspective that's fair enough. We'll all be curious to see how it plays out, just as many of us are trying to be a part of the solution.

And Forkbeard - thanks for promoting volunteerism. No matter what you call this game we play, it takes volunteers to make the engine run. Four thousand weapons sounds about right for Ragnarok, with many of them being checked daily (missiles) and the rest every other day. That's a lot of work. Same goes for a long weekend event of 3-400 fighters - there's a thousand or more weapons, shields, bows and missiles that have to be inspected.

[Blackhawk]

All volunteers are welcome at weapons check.
And for the record. Of all the people I have met who play both these games, very, VERY few of them have anything bad to say about the other. It seems to be some sort of metamorphosis that occurs when people get in front of their keyboards.

[Dedric]

That's cuz out of all the foam fighters in the world, I could probably count on my fingers the number of them who are truly responsible for getting us into this mess. And even they apparently believed their own BS. Why take that out on everybody else?

[Satanaka]

I don't care for the continued BS between the two GAMES. 90% of the people just want to have fun. I like the fact that it is easier to 'CROSS OVER' to each GAME and play with out MUCH issues or problems.

I don't want to see them become so different that you have to have ALL your gear seperate and different. I'd like to see major differences at a minimum. I think this is best for the people- so that all can play both with the most ease.

I think that WE (as in foam fighters) are NEVER going to be in complete agreement about almost anything- BUT remember- MOST people just want to have fun.

As a Herald (for many, many years) Safety is my highest concern.

We have great people in foam fighting- some of the best in the world- BUT like Pandora's box- we also have butt heads, idiots and just mean people. IMHO the good people you will meet make it all worth wild as well as the GAME is fun as heck.

just my $0.02

[bo1]

the way i see it, dag has for the longest time had thier MVP's. the people that set up the game, run events, icons of the sport. those icon are responsible for the current state of affairs, the web board policies, rag rules, and any other things in the game going a foul. they are also respondsible for some of the split, and all the things they have right in the game as well.

until people get rid of these people causeing the problems, i see no reasonj to waste my time at dag events. i will not be at rag, i will go to every local rockford dag event. these people in rockford have it just right, they want to learn, they want to fight, they want to have a good time. it is too bad that a few people will amke it so i never go to rag again.

[Soo Ma Tai]

I have to agree with Bo. Though I have many long time, good friends, who are Dag fighters primarily, I have no love for the organization. I cannot support an event run by the Dagorhir organization.

[Dedric]

Bo, Dagorhir has troublemakers, for sure. Dagorhir also has perceived troublemakers, which I can't legitimately speak to since I didn't start playing until several years after the split.

The official tone of Dag has changed a lot, even since I started fighting. People with horrible attitudes have been taken out of positions of power that they were abusing. Others with less horribly attitudes, or in a few cases even good ones, have replaced them.

While it's true that those folks are still around, the general attitude is continuing to change, and I can no longer condemn as strongly as I did before the DBGA attitude towards Belegarth. Due to a bunch of us internet whiners (and I'm including myself in that category, very heavily), certain individuals with pull were forced to take a harder look at the old attitudes (Blackhawk's name springs to mind).

So yeah, certain things about the organization still suck, and probably always will - it's like that with any organization, especially when there's bad blood somewhere back in its history. But I feel no need to boycott Dagorhir events at the present time. And I look forward to a friendlier Dagorhir to come.

[p_quick]

Dedric, you seem like some one who is sensible and there for worth talking to.

I'm with Bo, I will not be going to rag this year. I was on the fence until just today. I read the Dag fighting forum to see what Dag is doing in the progression of fighting skill and techniques. I watch vids of "highend" dag fighters in the "sparring video's" thread. I spend a fair amount of time at dag events teaching people how i fight and my perspective on fighting.

I'm a slave to Foam fighting, I push to make all of foam fighting better then it already is. But my patients with Dag is running short.

I posted on the Dag fighting forum under Bo's login (because i've been banned twice for just being me) in the dual welding thread because my name was specifically mentioned as helping someone out with two swords. So i posted saying that i was going to be at O's and hoping to attend other dag events in the midwest. And that i'd be happy to work with anyone that wanted to get better at two swords, and that i'm not hard to find so look me up. I signed it "ptQ" and i get the ban hammer.

Why would i support a game that can't see past old politics or old grudges about things that happened when i was only fighting for a little more then a year and had no roll in.

I'm still planning on going to O's because i've told dag friends that i'll be there but after that i'm not too sure what my dag event schedule is gunna look like.

[GvK]

Too bad you feel that way Bo. Not all of us ancient Aratari ("MVPs") that helped create and expand the game are all bad. I've strived to be an un-biased friend to Bel (which, like Dag, has plenty of tools on a person-by-person basis) since and before the split, which was when I got back into Dag heavily. I've also helped evolve and write some of the more recent rules, like allowing maille to use small diameter metal for welded/rivited links to allow much lighter armor. The minimum weights for blues and reds, etc. I sincerely hope I helped grow the game in a reasonable ways that enhance MOST fighter's experiences. I've not been involved much in fighting for these past 2-3 years, mostly for domestic/personal reasons, but some of my disinterest stems from aggravation with some of my oldest friends.

Look, going to Rag is NOT about high-end fighting in terms of the big battles, they are massive, plagued by ridiculous mounts of newbs and missle weapons, etc. But there will be MANY excellent fighters there, and most would probably by happy to spar with other fighters in a politics-free atmosphere. Plus, with 1500+ fellow dorks, a good time off the field should be easy to find.

[Forkbeard]

Deddric, GvK, Blackhawk. I've been supporting the hell oout of you guys this time around. I totaly beieve all of the good stuff your saying about Dag.
I wholly support Dag and it's events. I wish I could get to Rag. I'm still kinda trying.
But this new banning of Pete is all ****=ed u;p. I'am still banned, also, by he way. For No reason. Many people have looked at all my threads as both FB and Kang. I didn't do ****.
You good Dag people are going to have to do something about this. If one of my players was banned from this board for nothing, I would handle it. You better believe I could. I know who to talk to, and if our webmaster went bat **** crazy(hypotheticly(sp) Derian, chill) I'm sure we could get him removed and replaced by some one who does the job right.
You guys need to do this. Don't give me any bull **** about policies. Take whoever is the problem over there and make them leave the party. It's your house. Control it. Do this, this year or move.
We all hold the power to make being in our presence unbearable for unwanted people. Whoever is doing this **** on your boards deserves the same treatment as a guy at a party who has **** in his pants.
Boot the stinker out. You CAN.
FB

[Ilariia Bulochnika]

PtQ and Forkbeard:

Have you guys emailed the new mods and just asked? I know some of the old bans carried over when they switched servers and mods, mainly out of getting lost in paperwork. It honestly may be just a clerical error.

[Arrakis]

Brenna, Peter got RE-Banned, Again, and his very neutral, very helpful post was deleted as though it never existed, even though he was posting from someone else's account.

This was malice.

[varadin]

PtQ and Forkbeard:

Have you guys emailed the new mods and just asked? I know some of the old bans carried over when they switched servers and mods, mainly out of getting lost in paperwork. It honestly may be just a clerical error.

Theyve banned PTQ 3 times since the new boards. I seriously doubt its a "clerical error" Come on brenna you are smart enough to know to not buy into this "it was typo in the rules" style * that is being spewed over there.

[p_quick]

yes, ive emailed/talked to everyone that people have directed me to email. Many dag people have tried to fix my banning. (this all happened right after the dag board was switched over.)

FB i feel your pain man. getting ban for no reason is total *.

Ilariia, I fully encourage you to try and get to the bottom of this. but i've tried numerous times to get admins and other big names in dag to revoke my banning. but so far i always get the same responses...that they can't help me, they'd like to but they can't.

[Loptr]

Demonstrating he has a level head

GvK is one of the peeps I feel is working to improve stuff. He very selflessly shared his stab tip design while the Western Bel was trying to figure its **** out. This is IMHO a classic example of the best of the best. he wanted no compensation, only credit for the design and a safer more balanced game.

HUZZAH to all of these types.

Bel has been very welcoming to my Amtgard history for the most part. I have had to earn my respect from a few and a very rare few have been asshats. However, the vast majority of the game has been open to my crossgaming *.
My limited expeirence with Dag peeps was very good at a tiny event in Southern UT last Feb. They had awesome attitudes and were fun to be around.

Loptr

[Blackhawk]

Nobody got rebanned. Enforcement of existing bans had to happen because people who were banned were posting. The nature of the illegal post is not the issue.

Now I don't know why certain people were banned, but I can only assume that it was one of those 'you chose your side' type of deals. There is a place where all the banned people can gather and share information freely. I think this is that place.

I don't understand why, in an outdoor sport, someone would not go fight because of the interwebs. For example, if I was going to Equinox to fight and chill with my friends, I would not cancel my plans, if i got banned from this forum.

Maybe it's one of those deals that you really want something bad because you cant have it. But I imagine, asking for the overthrow of the people in charge of Dag and attempting to organize some ill-conceived boycott, is not going to put you on the fast track to getting unbanned.

Food for thought:
The only place you can read about this mythical feud between Dag and Bel, is here, so I wonder which party is responsible for fanning those flames?

[Dedric]

Peter, that's total horsesh*t. I challenge you to come to Rag and call them out on it. Heck, find ME, and I'll go with you and call them out on it.

That said, there is a list of folks who are perma-banned for some reason or other. It doesn't have to be an accident or for a legitimate reason. Back in the days when Paranoia (and you know who I'm talking about) was running the boards, they put a lot of people on that list. Now some of them are being reconsidered.

Have you contacted Blackhawk? He's the individual who's made himself available to take care of this, and reinstated more than one person I've seen. He also wasn't fighting during the split, so his personal attachment to it is nonexistent. Blackhawk@dagorhir.com. Let me know how it goes.

Forkbeard, you're 100% right. Unfortunately, I have no pull anywhere, other than my ability to *. I'm not officially a member of any Dag realm, although I fight at a variety of them every weekend, sometimes twice a weekend. In addition, through my own scuffle with the DBGA, I lost any credibility I might ever have had. Although to their credit, all the movers and shakers in Dag have been friendly and respectful when we weren't arguing about matters of policy.

This is something that NEEDS to be done. Much more than it is now. But it also IS being done. Dominus has retired from the boards, for the most part. Blackhawk has taken over a lot of the moderation. Lykos has been reigned in. And Alric is usually pretty open to discussion and reason. You know, and I know, that it's all going to take time, and if I ever AM in a position to vote on it, or to speak about it (beyond whining on the Internet, which isn't really productive at all), you have my word I'll do everything in my power to accelerate the end of grudges and paranoia.