An invitation from a long time foam fighter...

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An invitation from a long time foam fighter...

Postby Ark Angel » Wed Oct 27, 2010 1:00 pm

Greetings to all fellow foam fighters. My name is Caleb Snow. I own a small business called Sleeping Samurai. We are a Martial Arts based company who manufactures and sells safe Foam Martial Arts Practice Weapons. Mostly, we attend conventions across the US, supplying them with our form of Interactive Entertainment (through foam weapon battles, training sessions, etc.). I have been a part of Amtgard for years but haven't actually played in a while, sadly. Unfortunately, my business keeps me way too busy for me to be able to stay active. I have yet to experience the excitement of Belegarth, but I have met many people through the years of operating my business who are long term Belegarth fighters.

I know... "get to the point", right? *awkward smile* ...right... to the point. I am contacting you today about an event that Sleeping Samurai is putting on. It's called Shura Di (which basically stands for "Day of Fighting") and here's the run down... Shura Di will be a foam fighting day dedicated to honor, respect, chivalry, kindness, fun, learning and much more. We will be hosting massive foam fighting battles, Martial Art demos, Tournaments, family friendly “fair style” games and much more, with hundreds of people (if not more than a thousand people) joining in with us. There will be over $4,000 worth of prizes to be given away throughout the event. This “Day of Fighting” will be held in Plant City, FL on November 21st. We are looking to make Shura Di a twice-a-year event starting in 2011, one in the spring and one in the fall. You can find more info for Shura Di at http://www.thesleepingsamurai.com, on our Facebook account (http://www.facebook.com/Sleeping.Samurai/posts/168240963201804#!/pages/Shura-Di/154672017908200), on our Myspace account (http://events.myspace.com/Event/View/7729188)or by emailing MyShuraDi@gmail.com.

I would like to personally invite all of the members of Belegarth out to Shura DI. We’re going to have hundreds of people out for the event and we would love to have you all come out and battle alongside us. We welcome all foam fighters (no matter what sport they play) as long as everyone understands that the rules may be slightly different from what you are used to playing by, everyone is kind and respectful to one another, there is no drama caused on the field and as long as we can all have a fun time with one another. :) Also, because this is going to be an event that all foam fighters may attend, you are more than welcome to invite any and everyone you want, no matter what foam fighting sport they play or if they don’t even play at all. Keep in mind, this will be a great opportunity to recruit people for your park!
:knight:

Thank you very much for your time. I sincerely hope as many of you can make it out as possible, as I am looking forward to battling along side you all. Please feel free to contact me any way possible. Hope to see you out there!

--
Sincerely,
Caleb Snow
Founder/Owner/Operator
Sleeping Samurai “Are You Sleeping”
http://www.TheSleepingSamurai.com
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Re: An invitation from a long time foam fighter...

Postby Thorondor » Wed Oct 27, 2010 1:35 pm

Event sounds cool, but after looking at some of your event photos from 09, it doesn't look like your weapons will actually pass our standards (not enough padding).

Good luck with the event!
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Re: An invitation from a long time foam fighter...

Postby Soo Ma Tai » Wed Oct 27, 2010 2:02 pm

Too bad I live at the other end of the country, good luck with your event.
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Re: An invitation from a long time foam fighter...

Postby Ark Angel » Wed Oct 27, 2010 2:21 pm

Thank you for the good luck wish but it sounds like there are a few things you should know about us... we did not have a Shura Di event in 09 (we travel across the US to conventions and supply them with our Interactive Entertainment - this will be the first event we ourselves are hosting), our weapons are not made to pass any current Foam Fighting Sport standards (they are made as Martial Arts Practice Weapons with enough padding to keep the users safe), we are not asking to use our weapons on your field - in fact, you would be using your weapons (as you are more than welcome to) on our field and they would need to pass our standards which shouldn't be a problem since you feel like yours are more padded than ours to begin with. So, I guess I'm a little confused by your comment... please clarify, so I can understand what you mean. :) Thanks! I would love for you to come to the event and bring your weapons, so please let me know if there is anything else that I need to clarify. I am open to any and all questions. :D



Thorondor wrote:Event sounds cool, but after looking at some of your event photos from 09, it doesn't look like your weapons will actually pass our standards (not enough padding).

Good luck with the event!
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Re: An invitation from a long time foam fighter...

Postby Ark Angel » Wed Oct 27, 2010 2:23 pm

Thanks for the support. Sorry you can't make it, but it's totally understandable! :) Hopefully you will be able to make one of our other events (there are rumors of a Texas Shura Di coming soon).



Soo Ma Tai wrote:Too bad I live at the other end of the country, good luck with your event.
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Re: An invitation from a long time foam fighter...

Postby Soo Ma Tai » Wed Oct 27, 2010 2:33 pm

If you are ever coming to a tournament or whatnot here in Montana, just let me know and I'll be there.
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Re: An invitation from a long time foam fighter...

Postby Ark Angel » Wed Oct 27, 2010 2:38 pm

Holy cow... you really are out there, aren't you. lol. Yeah, man. If we ever do an event that far out, I will let you all know. Sorry we aren't closer to you. I was going to mention our PA Shura Di event (that's going to be happening most likely early next year) but I still don't think that would be close enough for you. :( If you can make any of our events, we would love to have you out! Thanks again for the support. :D


Soo Ma Tai wrote:If you are ever coming to a tournament or whatnot here in Montana, just let me know and I'll be there.
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Re: An invitation from a long time foam fighter...

Postby Forkbeard » Wed Oct 27, 2010 4:28 pm

I think what Thor is saying is he wouldn't want to get hit by your weapons.
Although I personaly don't mind getting hurt a little, I agree with him. I would rather fight anybody, martial arts master or street thug, with our weapon in both peoples hands then fight in a strange tourney using weapons of unknow safety(to me).
On the reverse, I would aways rather use our weapons on stragners and freinds alike. I KNOW they are safe. It looks to me like I would most likely break your weapons and hurt some one.
All that nonsense aside, however, I like your idea. No doubt if you grow, you'll discover the positive atributes of hardier weapon design and your game will evolve.
If you have one of your events in the west, Soo Ma Tai and I will both try our best to come. I'll even wear a samurai outfit. I'd love to fight some martial arts dude who think they are hot ****. Especialy in a hotel/convention type setting so we could go out to bars and **** at night. That would make for a fun weekend and probly some good fights.
If you keep doing these around the counrty you'll probly do well.
Are you going to allow other merchants to sell stuff at your events?
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Re: An invitation from a long time foam fighter...

Postby Thorondor » Wed Oct 27, 2010 6:21 pm

You more or less summed up what I meant. Thanks Fork.
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Re: An invitation from a long time foam fighter...

Postby Forkbeard » Thu Oct 28, 2010 7:02 am

I noticed on your facebook page that you started taling about weapon requirments. I like that.
I don't like how you just imediatly went to measurements. While 1" of foam is enough and 1 1/2" is too much for a min requirement, I fell you need to focus on foam.
Foam quality is really where the rubber meets the road, so to speak. We do not allow fun noodle, for instance. It is unrelaible and dangerous. Some forms of very high grade foam, like EVA, come in various poundages. 2# EVA is great and soft, but can get dead spots. 4# eva is hard and strong and doesn't get dead spots, but will hurt people. If you combine them right, they are the best ever, but spendy.
What I'm saying is, there are too many variations of foam(and more being released all the * time) to say "X" of foam will work every time." You'll need to have an inspection at every fight and throw out the weapons that fail, even if it * people off.
Also, after looking again at your site, you need cloth covers on those sword. Duct tape, in the long run, is going to be dangerous to your customers. I've seen some pretty gnarly surface cuts and bruises from ductape covered weapons over the years. They are few and far between, but in a convention steeing, you could get sued. Be carefull.
Is there a chance you guys will be out west doing stuff?
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Re: An invitation from a long time foam fighter...

Postby Ark Angel » Thu Oct 28, 2010 7:04 am

Ahh, I understand what you all are talking about now and I can respect that standpoint. I will tell you this though... many extremely strong fighters have battled with our products over the 3+ years of owning/operating Sleeping Samurai and for the most part, they have no problems with the weapons. Every so often a weaker piece of carbon fiber will snap under the pressure of a very powerful swing but people aren't supposed to be "baseball bat swinging" anyway. I would love for some long time Belegarth veterans to try our product and see what you all can do with it. So, if we ever have the opportunity to battle, I would consider it an honor.

So that everyone understands... I am not out to rule over anyone, build "my own" foam fighting sport nor am I trying to change anyone's mind about anything. I am designing and hosting these events to provide an outlet for all foam fighters and Martial Artists to find some common ground. I want to help unite all foam fighters on a common field of battle as a way to (hopefully) help foam fighting sports to become more legitimate in the eyes of the public. To me foam fighting sports are a great way for beginners, intermediate players and experience fighters alike to find some common ground plus it is used (by many of my personal friends) as a way to study sword fighting and way to "keep everyone safe" while they are learning the art of sword fighting. So, its a safe way of practicing and learning Martial Arts - yes, I consider Foam Fighting a Martial Art, of sorts. :)

I am glad to hear that you both will be joining us, if we are able to hold a Western US Shura Di. Thank you for this support.

To answer your question... no, we will not have Vendors out at the event selling items, as doing this completely changes the layout of the day and I feel like it would start to "commercialize" the event and that is not what I want. I want it to be a cozy family friendly event, not a massive convention. The other reason is because if we start to have Vendors and Artist and such out (turning it into more of a convention than we would like) than it will change the legal system by which I must operate within and I would have to get a completely different/more expensive type of insurance for the events - all of which just helps make it feel like "big business" to me and that is the exact feeling I don't want people to have when they join us at the events.

I hope this helps to answer any questions you all had/have. Please let me know if there is anything else I can do for you. :) ttfn...



Forkbeard wrote:I think what Thor is saying is he wouldn't want to get hit by your weapons.
Although I personaly don't mind getting hurt a little, I agree with him. I would rather fight anybody, martial arts master or street thug, with our weapon in both peoples hands then fight in a strange tourney using weapons of unknow safety(to me).
On the reverse, I would aways rather use our weapons on stragners and freinds alike. I KNOW they are safe. It looks to me like I would most likely break your weapons and hurt some one.
All that nonsense aside, however, I like your idea. No doubt if you grow, you'll discover the positive atributes of hardier weapon design and your game will evolve.
If you have one of your events in the west, Soo Ma Tai and I will both try our best to come. I'll even wear a samurai outfit. I'd love to fight some martial arts dude who think they are hot ****. Especialy in a hotel/convention type setting so we could go out to bars and **** at night. That would make for a fun weekend and probly some good fights.
If you keep doing these around the counrty you'll probly do well.
Are you going to allow other merchants to sell stuff at your events?
FB
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Re: An invitation from a long time foam fighter...

Postby Ark Angel » Thu Oct 28, 2010 7:38 am

Thank you for this advice. Unfortunately we will not know if peoples weapons will pass our standards until the day of the event. I wish I could tell people what types of foam they should be using in their weapons and have all of them listen but this is just not possible. So, we are going to do our very best to make sure the weapons are all safe and legal at our event.

Please do not think me a fool (not that you do)... I have and always will carry one million dollar insurance coverage plus everyone will be turning in a signed Official Release Waiver (as is always done at conventions) before they are ever allowed to battle. In my line of work, you never know what could go wrong and I am always on pins and needles every time someone is battling, for fear of someone, somehow getting hurt (typically not by the weapons but by their lack of coordination - falling down and bumping their head, spraining an ankle, etc.), with the realization that if they do get hurt, it all comes down on my shoulders. So yes, I absolutely understand the problems with people bringing in their own weapons to battle with at the event but honestly there is no way we could ever provide enough foam weapons for the size crowds we are expecting.

We do use cloth covers over our weapons. Unfortunately though ,I have not been able to find a whole seller of high quality covers yet. So, sometimes the covers which we use get torn at the ends and then eventually come off. We then simply replace it with another cover (not cost effective or efficient but it's the best we can do for now, since I can't find a whole seller, as mentioned).

I would like everyone to please understand... I appreciate the advice and the support but please know that I am not just some noob who is putting together a small foam fighting day. I have battled with foam weapons for almost 5 years now. I have been building weapons for more than 4 years now. I have successfully owned and operated my foam fighting/Martial Arts based business for almost 4 years now. My business has attended over 60 conventions across the US, providing them with our Interactive Entertainment. So... we know what we are doing. No worries there. :D

As I said, I really do appreciate the advice and help anyone and everyone can give me, but please remember that we are not going into this unprepared. :)

As far as out West goes... unfortunately we do not travel past the Texas/Oklahoma area very often. :( There just aren't too many cons in the North West for us to attend and those that are out there, either are too small for us to be able to afford to be Guests at (probability of loosing money at the smaller shows if they aren't easy to get to) or are too large for their own good and have massive chips on their shoulders. I would love to put a Shura Di event out in your all's neck of the woods eventually but I am unsure of when that will be able to take place. If/when we do put one out in that area, would we have the support of the local Belegarth groups, you think?

The reasons why we are putting the events in the areas of the US that we are, is because these areas are where most of our friends/fans of the business and supporters of Sleeping Samurai are located. Since we haven't gone out West too much, we really don't have a fan base there yet. Therefore it would be extremely difficult to host a Shura Di event out there without the strong support of the local foam fighting chapters. See what I mean...? It would be a problem getting the attendance at the event, if we don't have a fan base to start off with. :unsure:

As this is our first Shura Di event, it will be a learning experience... but one that I am highly looking forward to. :D




Forkbeard wrote:I noticed on your facebook page that you started taling about weapon requirments. I like that.
I don't like how you just imediatly went to measurements. While 1" of foam is enough and 1 1/2" is too much for a min requirement, I fell you need to focus on foam.
Foam quality is really where the rubber meets the road, so to speak. We do not allow fun noodle, for instance. It is unrelaible and dangerous. Some forms of very high grade foam, like EVA, come in various poundages. 2# EVA is great and soft, but can get dead spots. 4# eva is hard and strong and doesn't get dead spots, but will hurt people. If you combine them right, they are the best ever, but spendy.
What I'm saying is, there are too many variations of foam(and more being released all the * time) to say "X" of foam will work every time." You'll need to have an inspection at every fight and throw out the weapons that fail, even if it * people off.
Also, after looking again at your site, you need cloth covers on those sword. Duct tape, in the long run, is going to be dangerous to your customers. I've seen some pretty gnarly surface cuts and bruises from ductape covered weapons over the years. They are few and far between, but in a convention steeing, you could get sued. Be carefull.
Is there a chance you guys will be out west doing stuff?
FB
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Re: An invitation from a long time foam fighter...

Postby Arrakis » Thu Oct 28, 2010 9:10 am

We understand that you're not a total newb to foam fighting. But understand: Belegarth has been around for 10 years, before which it was joined to Dagorhir, which started in the very late 70s, and there are fighters on this forum who have been fighting for longer than I (a college graduate) have been alive. When Forkbeard indicates that an inch of foam with duct tape over it might hurt someone, he's not blowing smoke. Belegarth is a sport in which we hit very hard, up to and including baseball swings, sometimes, and we require our weapons to be padded to a degree that such operation is safe for all of our players.

That is, if you handed Fork a 15 oz weapon built on low-diameter carbon-fiber tubing with one inch of 2# EVA on it with a duct tape cover, he could probably bruise you up and/or break the core on you. I know I wouldn't want to be hit by him using such a weapon.

So, understand that our safety concerns are coming from our experience in the hardest-hitting foam-weapons combat sport on the planet. We don't * around, here, because when we * up on safety, people break noses and fingers and ribs.
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Re: An invitation from a long time foam fighter...

Postby Ark Angel » Thu Oct 28, 2010 9:53 am

I totally understand your all's standpoint. No worries there. :) I was neither offended nor upset by his or anyone elses statements about weapon construction. I understand that you guys are an extremely hard hitting sport and I'm totally cool with that. I would much rather feel the firm impact of the strike instead of being lightly tapped and told that I'm dead. I HATE the game of "tap" which has (unfortunately) worked it's way into a number of foam fighting sports at this point, so I greatly appreciate that you don't play this way. So, again I am cool with advice on weaponry but please keep in mind that we are not organizing a Belegarth or Amtgard event. It's an event that we are trying to build for all foam fighters, Martial Artist and the public to enjoy.

Due to the fact that this event is open to the public, we cannot have people battling like they typically do (necessarily) at their own parks, inside of their own sports. What I mean by this is that we cannot allow people to battle in the same manner that they do at their own parks because they aren't going to be only playing veteran players. We will have a mixture of complete noobs all the way up to long time veterans and everything in between. So, we are going to need to be very careful how we allow people to fight at the event. Again, we are going to take every precaution to make sure the weapons are safe but we will also have to make sure that the people that are swinging the weapons are also in complete control of their swings.

We obviously disagree on how the weapons should be constructed (as you all have different purposes for your weapons than what we do) but I hope we can agree that none of us want anyone hurt at any of our events. So, please trust that we are going to do all we can to help ensure this. Thanks again, guys. Let me know if there is anything else. :D




Arrakis wrote:We understand that you're not a total newb to foam fighting. But understand: Belegarth has been around for 10 years, before which it was joined to Dagorhir, which started in the very late 70s, and there are fighters on this forum who have been fighting for longer than I (a college graduate) have been alive. When Forkbeard indicates that an inch of foam with duct tape over it might hurt someone, he's not blowing smoke. Belegarth is a sport in which we hit very hard, up to and including baseball swings, sometimes, and we require our weapons to be padded to a degree that such operation is safe for all of our players.

That is, if you handed Fork a 15 oz weapon built on low-diameter carbon-fiber tubing with one inch of 2# EVA on it with a duct tape cover, he could probably bruise you up and/or break the core on you. I know I wouldn't want to be hit by him using such a weapon.

So, understand that our safety concerns are coming from our experience in the hardest-hitting foam-weapons combat sport on the planet. We don't * around, here, because when we * up on safety, people break noses and fingers and ribs.
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Re: An invitation from a long time foam fighter...

Postby Forkbeard » Thu Oct 28, 2010 12:30 pm

I get what your saying, man. I love your idea. I would love a place to go to meet people from all over the sword fighting world and fight the ones who are willing. It's a great plan that has been attempted before and hopefully will work out for you. Or someone in the near future. I already go out and fight as many group of people as I can afford to. I hope to expand that in the future.
You never know, I might be traveling in the east soon going to cons selling ****. Hopefully you guys will be there.
When we talk about swinging hard and breaking weapons, we are not talking about swinging out of control. Things have progressed through body mechanics and sports science, coupled with the help of really good teachers, to the point where most good Bel fighters can hit mind blowingly hard with very little effort and no loss of control.
I very much respect your belief in your weapons, I am just saying there are some things you haven't seen yet. I don't think you're a noob, but I will have been doing this 18 years this March, and I ain't the old guy.
What you are doing, by getting people from all over the Foam Fighting map together in one place, will create alot of this. You are bringing world together like some interdimensional portal. I am contantly amazed at the differnt levels of tech and skill sets out there in differnt groups. I'm sure you're going to have your mind blown daily.
Thanks for your effort. I hope it blows up huge.
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Re: An invitation from a long time foam fighter...

Postby Ark Angel » Thu Oct 28, 2010 12:52 pm

Thank you for your kind words and support. It is greatly appreciated. I hope one day we will be able to meet up in person and enjoy battling along side one another.
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Re: An invitation from a long time foam fighter...

Postby warwell » Sat Oct 30, 2010 5:18 am

Ark Angel,

You may also want to post at the Lowlands (Orlando Bel) forum - http://z10.invisionfree.com/Gorewoord/i ... p?act=site

I see that you found the FL Foam Fighters site.

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Re: An invitation from a long time foam fighter...

Postby Ark Angel » Sat Oct 30, 2010 9:19 am

Thank you for this link, Warwell. That is very kind of you to point me in another direction. :D I will post it now.

Yes, I was referred to the FL Foam Fighters site by someone on Electric Samurai (Amtgard Forums) but thank you as well.



warwell wrote:Ark Angel,

You may also want to post at the Lowlands (Orlando Bel) forum - http://z10.invisionfree.com/Gorewoord/i ... p?act=site

I see that you found the FL Foam Fighters site.

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