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 Post subject: Battle of the Nations
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2012 9:28 pm 
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This is probably the closest you'll ever get to an actual medieval tournament without actually killing each other...

If you're interested: https://www.facebook.com/groups/115904041790980/

Just keep in mind that it's probably around 10K for all the armor, travel, and logistics (and I'm pretty sure they're probably not going to be holding it in the U.S. anytime soon.)

Battles are 21 on 21, 5 on 5, and counted blows for individuals.

Explanation of the rules:
http://usaknights.org/teamusa_006.htm

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 Post subject: Re: Battle of the Nations
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2012 9:40 pm 
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as badass as it is, you can tell team USA had a hard time adjusting to it being pretty much a shoving match, rather than a test of any real skill or technique.
The 5v5 Blue team fight is brutal, Aveloc (BAMF) is using a * sword and gets teamed up on by 3 guys. Brutality.
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 Post subject: Re: Battle of the Nations
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2012 9:44 pm 
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just listen at 1:40. Awesome.

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 Post subject: Re: Battle of the Nations
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2012 10:50 pm 
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I would argue that there is skill and technique in the melees. Just not a skill or technique that we are used to.


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 Post subject: Re: Battle of the Nations
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 6:17 am 
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Here's how one (SCA) attendee described this year's event (from Armour Archive):

To be honest, if you are thinking you want to do this, just “cause it will be fun”, you really need to stop for a second, and think.

Perhaps a few stories will get across the accepted level of risk I am talking about.

It is the first day. Due to not being able to talk any of the languages, the whole USA team had been standing in armor, in the sun, for three hours. My heart rate had been steady at round 150 bpm for at least one of those hours. I had completely lost the ability to shed heat. We wound up being the sixth fight of the day. We had seen three guys get carried off on backboards already, and shuttled off into the three ambulances they had on rotation. The fight just before ours finished, and they moved one of the ambulances to the entrances of the list. The fourth guy they pulled off wasn’t moving…. At all… They were rushing to shove him in the ambulance so they could get it out of the way for us to take the field. You know those gladiator movies, where they plunge the hook into the dead guy to pull him off the arena? Yeah, that’s what it felt like.

I will never forget the look that passed between Brad and Myself. The reality of it slammed home to all of us. They closed the ambulance doors on the unmoving man at arms, and it was our turn…..

In Felix’s first one on one fight, He was fighting a Dane. Felix was doing really well. The fight ended when Felix cut the end of the Dane’s finger off. Later that day, The Dane proudly gave Felix the fingernail from his severed finger as a Martial souvenir, and promised to send him Video of the surgery.

One of the Belarusians, (I think) had his finger cut off. It was hanging on by a flap of skin and the tendon. They did not want to take him in to the hospital for such a minor injury, as they needed it for the “actual” injuries. They set the bone, and sewed it up there in site.

There was blood everywhere. At one point, I looked down on my buckler and it was smeared with blood from God know’s who or what. It became very commonplace for my companions to wash the insides of their helmets to get the blood out, so they could be ready for the next bout.

My dear friend Rudy had his moment in “deep waters”, as three men tried to beat him to his knees. He passed his test, and won the respect of every man at arms there at the cost of a broken shoulder blade, and the muscles literally torn from the bone.

Every time I went out there, I put myself in the hands of the Divine, quite literally. In the last fight, I was beaten unconscious into the dirt for the second time that day. It took much longer for me to wake up the second time. I woke up with a Russian looking at me, smiling, and embracing me as a brother would.

One of us was a hair’s breadth from going to the hospital and having a hole cut in his skull to relieve the pressure.
This has NO PLACE on an SCA battlefield… Period… I never want a requirement for SCA combat to be an up to date Last will and testament.

If you are driven to do this by the Divine, by the rage in you, by your Chivalry, by whatever it is, than use that as fuel, and be tested. For without a doubt, that is what it is.

If all this sounds heavy handed, and melodramatic…… then good. If it makes you stop and think, than it’s done its purpose.
HMB/BoTN rulesets should not be allowed to affect rules of the martial sport of SCA rattan fencing. Now, if it inspires some Future man at arms to seek noble deeds of arms, in whatever context, than THAT is an influence to be wished for.

With Respect and humility
Rob

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 Post subject: Re: Battle of the Nations
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 8:37 am 
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Yeah, remember how I said I would be up for trying this?

I think I changed my mind.

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 Post subject: Re: Battle of the Nations
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 12:03 pm 
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Wow.

I am not hardcore enough for that.


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 Post subject: Re: Battle of the Nations
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 2:10 pm 
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I am signed up and getting my armour in place for 2014. I don't think I will be ready for 2013, but I want to help out how I can. All I know is that for the 3 or 4 days they were out there fighting, I was glued to my laptop and streaming video of our guys out there fighting with Europeans! I bet that was a blast! I may only get to do one of these but damnit I am doing it!

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 Post subject: Re: Battle of the Nations
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 9:19 pm 
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I'll stick with horseback riding. It is statistically only 3X more dangerous than taking hits of LSD. But, in 15 years, I still haven't sustained injuries like those described. The day will come, but at least I get to point to the horse and say, "Well, he weighs 1100 lbs." Also, if anyone ever wants to play Bel on horses...it will be only half as terrible as "Battle of the Nations" on the worst of days.

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 Post subject: Re: Battle of the Nations
PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 7:22 am 
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Reverend wrote:
Yeah, remember how I said I would be up for trying this?

I think I changed my mind.


I'm with you. Holy ****, did not realize just how crazy it would be. I knew it was rough, but *! I'm not down for that level of injury.


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 Post subject: Re: Battle of the Nations
PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 7:35 am 
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I'd do it

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 Post subject: Re: Battle of the Nations
PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 8:43 am 
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Kensman Bam wrote:
I am signed up and getting my armour in place for 2014. I don't think I will be ready for 2013, but I want to help out how I can. All I know is that for the 3 or 4 days they were out there fighting, I was glued to my laptop and streaming video of our guys out there fighting with Europeans! I bet that was a blast! I may only get to do one of these but damnit I am doing it!


That was the best week of work ever! I had the live stream on my second monitor all week. My heart rate was up too often just watching. If I were single and didn't have a million plans in life currently, I would have ordered the $1620 in gear I'd need and drive to NC to try it out. I ride motorcycles very fast in the name of fun, and often find my foam fighting a little lame. I don;t like much of the culture from most SCAdians I have talked to, so I've never been interested... I WANT to do this.

Our team lost because they were too weapon oriented. Embrace your inner Ray Lewis and lay a * out!

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 Post subject: Re: Battle of the Nations
PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 8:47 am 
Skull Crusher
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Kyrian, thanks for posting that, that is VERY insightful. My first thoughts while watch was "why on earth use articulated finger gauntlets?" The cup style will deflect shots WAY better... I appear to have some logic and understanding of physics left.

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 Post subject: Re: Battle of the Nations
PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 9:33 am 
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I am with you on that Thrush! Every match I was like yelling, "GET'UM BOYS!! GIVE'EM HELL!!!" I was hard to focus on work with all of that fighting going on. This has blown up in the US right now, and there is an official Facebook page for it too. Duke Icefalcon is in charge of this group, and he has things squared the **** away...HOOAH!

I am working with a few martial arts as well going over foot sweeps and judo moves that will be legal for this and easy to do in all that armor! I will say the prospect of crashing into some in full armour is very appealing to me!

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 Post subject: Re: Battle of the Nations
PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 9:53 am 
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The overlying thing i came away with was this:

Don't **** with Russia. They are **** animals. All of them.

They had their **** so together it wasn't even right. In the All v All fights, whatever team had Russia won. And it was just Russians left alive at the end...

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 Post subject: Re: Battle of the Nations
PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 11:12 am 
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 Post subject: Re: Battle of the Nations
PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 4:05 pm 
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Kensman Bam wrote:
I am working with a few martial arts as well going over foot sweeps and judo moves that will be legal for this and easy to do in all that armor! I will say the prospect of crashing into some in full armour is very appealing to me!



Judo, lots of judo.


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 Post subject: Re: Battle of the Nations
PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2012 7:47 am 
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evil randy wrote:
Kensman Bam wrote:
I am working with a few martial arts as well going over foot sweeps and judo moves that will be legal for this and easy to do in all that armor! I will say the prospect of crashing into some in full armour is very appealing to me!



Judo, lots of judo.


Amen! Some Roman Greco would help too...

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 Post subject: Re: Battle of the Nations
PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2012 1:44 pm 
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So, basically, this is NOT role-playing, it is an ACTUAL medieval tournament.

At least the spectators all had fun!

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 Post subject: Re: Battle of the Nations
PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2012 9:56 am 
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Um.. yeah, it's a real tourney. No RP whatsoever near as I can tell... Just "themed"...

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 Post subject: Re: Battle of the Nations
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 9:46 am 
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Yeah, exactly. I watched the 2011 series, but it's much more apparent from the first-person narrative what the true nature of this event is. Moreover, I think this illustrates effectively how the Eastern European mindset is really quite far removed from our American worldview.

Also, why on earth did the American group have no one who could speak Polish, Russian, Ukrainian, Lithuanian, Latvian, or anything else? I find it hard to believe that, being based in Illinois, they couldn't find anyone who speaks Polish. But then again, Americans have never been the best at learning foreign languages, I suppose.

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 Post subject: Re: Battle of the Nations
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 12:04 pm 
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Americans travel to another country to participate in their event and LEARN THEIR LANGUAGE?!?!!?!?! Are you high?!?! That's not how we roll man! lol

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 Post subject: Re: Battle of the Nations
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 12:28 pm 
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They certainly didn't do too much to learn their fighting styles...

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 Post subject: Re: Battle of the Nations
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 1:53 pm 
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Actually on the BotN FB page, everyone is scrambling to learn Polish/Russian via Rosetta Stone.

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 Post subject: Re: Battle of the Nations
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 4:43 pm 
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Well good!

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 Post subject: Re: Battle of the Nations
PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2012 8:49 am 
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The biggest issue I have so far is the amount of money needed to even see if you want to do this. The type of armor is very expensive, to the tune of 4K+.

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 Post subject: Re: Battle of the Nations
PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2012 5:59 pm 
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Kensman Bam wrote:
The biggest issue I have so far is the amount of money needed to even see if you want to do this. The type of armor is very expensive, to the tune of 4K+.


Don't forget the travel expenses.


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 Post subject: Re: Battle of the Nations
PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 7:37 am 
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Kensman Bam wrote:
The biggest issue I have so far is the amount of money needed to even see if you want to do this. The type of armor is very expensive, to the tune of 4K+.


No sir, I priced out a full kit at $1620.

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 Post subject: Re: Battle of the Nations
PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2012 10:23 am 
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Well, I would use Anshelm as a good point of reference for the gear you would need:

http://anshelmarms.com/index.html

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 Post subject: Re: Battle of the Nations
PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 9:30 am 
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That is because both of you guys can get normal sized pieces of armor...The fat man has to get custom made and adding extra steel does not come cheap...lol

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 Post subject: Re: Battle of the Nations
PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 10:38 pm 
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Actually, steel is quite cheap. Only a small percentage of what it cost in the 14th century.

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 Post subject: Re: Battle of the Nations
PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2012 6:22 am 
Skull Crusher
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Kensman Bam wrote:
That is because both of you guys can get normal sized pieces of armor...The fat man has to get custom made and adding extra steel does not come cheap...lol


The website that Battle of the Nations pimps as their big supplier does NOT say anything about upcharges for larger mammals... Look into it!

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