Battlefield Tips for Beginners

Discuss how to become a better fighter and training methods for teaching new fighters.

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Battlefield Tips for Beginners

Postby Tren » Thu May 10, 2007 10:39 am

The "Ultimate Goal" thread was kind of going this way, and I think we should have a spot to post our gems of wisdom for new fighters looking for general guidelines on how to get better. Try to keep contributions short, quick tips for newbies.

-Speed and power are a byproduct of control and accuracy. Work on getting comfortable and accurate first, and you'll naturally swing faster and harder.

-Always try to learn something. Sometimes a vet can teach you new tricks, and sometimes you can teach yourself by watching what other people do. There's lessons everywhere on the field.

-If you keep dying, don't be frustrated. If you want to get better, ask all the vets you can for help. The decent ones will respect you for it, and the good one's will help you learn.
Last edited by Tren on Sat May 12, 2007 7:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Kenneth » Thu May 10, 2007 11:05 am

I agree with 2 and 3. I disagree *slightly* with 1. The reason why I hit somebody is because I'm accurate, not because I'm particularly fast or strong. I know when an opening has appeared, or will soon appear. My sword may already be on the way to the opening before it has even opened, which compensates for my lack of speed. My style is based upon technique and experience, to compensate for my lower athletic ability.

My view is much like the slow shot in foosball that somehow rolls past all of your frantically moving defenders despite moving at a crawl. Fittle, who has a swing speed several times mine, once said, "I don't understand! His sword is so slow! I can see it coming! But it always hits!"

I am a fighter who is accurate but slow. I have seen other fighters who are fast but weak or inaccurate. I have seen even more fighters who swing like oxen, but are incredibly slow and inaccurate. Although speed, accuracy, and power are related, improvement in one does not necessarily lead to improvements in others.

My contributions:

1. Work on technique. Technique can turn a person with mediocre physical ability into a decent fighter. Don't just fight and die without understanding why you are dying.

2. Try to avoid relying on equipment when you are new such as large shields, super light/long flails, armor, etc. Use of such equipment tends to promotes sloppy fighting in new people because they compensate for deficiencies such as poor foot work. What you will find is that you will be a better fighter in the short term with that equipment. You will kill more people and die less easily. However, your long term growth as a fighter probably will be stunted.
Last edited by Kenneth on Thu May 10, 2007 11:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby The Great Gigsby » Thu May 10, 2007 11:13 am

Kenneth wrote:The reason why I hit somebody is because I'm accurate, not because I'm particularly fast or strong.
Well said!

My big suggestions for all fighters:

- Only throw a shot that you know will land, or will generate an opening for a follow up (provided it doesn't leave you vulnerable). I see too many people swing aimlessly or without confidence in their execution. Strive to finish every fight in one motion.

- In that same vein, don't sweep someone's leg as an opening to a fight unless you have no other alternative (or it will create an opening elsewhere). There are few swings to the legs that can't be a wrap to your opponents hip/butt/back/arm. Wild leg sweeps typically leave you vulnerable and aren't as effective longterm as a basic hip wrap. Especially when sparring with friends, try to avoid the newbie leg sweep.

- Learn to fight in every situation, in every range. I see a lot of longer weapons being popular, but don't neglect fighting up close. Fight with different people. Fight with multiple people and learn to work with a partner.

- Move like water, but backstab like a hurricane.
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Postby Cyric » Thu May 10, 2007 11:57 am

Be aggressive. Too many n00bs get owned because they freeze up when someone runs up to them and starts swinging. keep your eyes open and move with your opponent, and wait for your shot.

Swing in combos. Don't ever swing just once. Vary where your shots are coming from, and vary their speed as well.
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Postby Kensman Bam » Thu May 10, 2007 1:03 pm

Yeah if can get another sword/board fighter back peddling with an advance...keep pressing! Maybe throw 3 or 4 similar shots and switch it up.
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Postby Talion » Thu May 10, 2007 2:28 pm

kit wrote:In that same vein, don't sweep someone's leg as an opening to a fight unless you have no other alternative (or it will create an opening elsewhere). There are few swings to the legs that can't be a wrap to your opponents hip/butt/back/arm. Wild leg sweeps typically leave you vulnerable and aren't as effective longterm as a basic hip wrap. Especially when sparring with friends, try to avoid the newbie leg sweep.


I just wanted to point out to a newbie reading this, that this may only apply to a one on one fight. After all, if you can easily kill someone, why only leg them and then be forced to fight them when they're in the (arguably) more defensive position of being down (only applies if they have a shield).

But, the main thing I want to point out is that it is often a very effective tactic from a team standpoint to "leg and go" in field battles. If you leg someone in a large field battle, you can usually just leave them behind, and then come back and mop up after all the standing opposition has been finished. I wouldn't consider this a newbie move at all.

I don't know if I can add a whole lot, but here goes:

-Attitude plays a huge role. Make sure you're having fun. Try not to let others who may be in a bad mood (happens sometimes) affect you. Something that sort of ties in, if you get called for incorrect/poor shottaking, don't take it personally. Veterans understand that it takes some practice to be able to accurately take hits, especially those around the upper leg/butt or upper arm/shoulder boundaries.

Just register the complaint in your own mind so that you can make sure to pay attention to where you're getting hit. After all, this will also help you realize where your defense may be lacking.
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Postby Tren » Thu May 10, 2007 5:21 pm

Kenneth wrote:I disagree *slightly* with 1. The reason why I hit somebody is because I'm accurate, not because I'm particularly fast or strong.


It's a lesson my guitar/violin teacher always told me when I was a kid, and I think it applies to a lot of physical dexterity related activities. Maybe I shouldn't say accuracy as much as control, the more control you have I do believe you'll gradually start swinging faster and harder naturally, compared to throwing a shot you're uncomfortable with, and have little control over.
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Postby Georghiu Leonte » Fri May 11, 2007 8:27 am

Do not use the same equipment every fight. If you want to be a good fighter? You need to vary what you use. (This is my opinion, I try to switch my weapon selection after every water break. Why? Because if you only know how to use your weapons/shield and they break at an event your screwed)

The more you lose, the more you will win later. IF you have a good attitude.

Learn everything from death you can.

Make your own weapons. (Not entirely a battlefield tip I know), because only you know what grip is most comfortable for your hand.

Fight with purpose.

Commit. Unless your feigning a swing, commit to it fully. Put your mind/body behind what your doing.

Feign often.
Last edited by Georghiu Leonte on Fri May 11, 2007 12:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby xiao » Fri May 11, 2007 8:40 am

Georghiu Leonte wrote:Do not use the same equipment every fight. If you want to be a good fighter? You need to vary what you use.



I totally agree. I'd also like to add that fighting with a weapon style also teaches you the way to beat someone else using said style. You feel the weaknesses insted of looking for them on someone else.
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Postby Bhakdar » Fri May 11, 2007 9:05 pm

I commend Kenny for his emphasis on accurate placement and timing, which are vital things veterans have from the mere experience of lots of fighting...

However, I'd have to refute the notions about speed.

If you swing faster than your opponents block and you have a reasonable degree of accuracy (ability to hit an open target), you will land a strike.

By way of physics, speed also lends to power.

And, by way of delivering any damage to your opponent, sufficient force must be dealt by a weapon traveling to an opponents opening or past their guard... Elite fighters going against each other will exchange a lot more partially blocked shots or combinations of speed & misdirection to make it to an opening. They will not just traverse past each other's incompetence and inexperience of moving a shield across one's body.

Speed applied to basic technique kills many and keeps you alive longer-- whether attacking, blocking, or dodging. In my mind, this is what most vets have over new people -they swing faster than the new person can block-.

While in respect to a top tier fighting par Kenny for example may be "slow," I bet he could kill the base novice-beginner 30% of the fighting par with speed as his primary tool. That said, he'd also probably trick shot or time & place for kills on that par and the next 30% up from that par. In contrast, when I first emerged as a top tier fighter, I would fight that whole 60% dominantly by virtue of speed combined with accuracy. Vets will change their style over time though, and change of the body makes to new avenues to success.
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Postby Kenneth » Fri May 11, 2007 9:43 pm

I don't disagree with Bhakdar. Actually, I'm not even sure he's referring to me about speed, but I figured I should clarify what I was writing anyways since it could be taken a few ways. I think we are saying about the same thing, just in different ways. Part of this may also be applicable to the guy asking how he can improve his "speed" in the history forum.

The initial statement was to work on accuracy first, and that with accuracy would come speed/power. I was pointing out that improving in one is not necessarily improvement in any of the others.

There are shots that are extremely accurate but give up speed or power. There are shots that are fast, but give up accuracy or speed. There are shots that are fast, but give up accuracy or power. Each particular "style", so to speak, has advantages and disadvantages. It is not necessarily a bad thing to mix and match as you go. Certainly there are some monstrous speed fighters.

I think a key difference may be in viewing where "speed" comes from. In my view, speed has several components. One is literally how fast you are, or how long it takes you to go from A to B. Beyond a certain reasonable fitness level, everybody is not that different in terms of pure speed. The difference is probably in .1's of a second from the time it takes a reasonably in shape person to swing from A to C, and an athlete to swing from A to C. Obviously some people are going to be slower, but in reality, people are swinging a foam stick. The level of health required to swing one is not that high.

On the other hand, what Vets really have over "base fighters" in my mind is technique. Instead of swinging from A to C, they swing from A to B. They don't pull their swords behind their backs before taking a shot, they redirect momentum and they also telegraph their shots less. They have better swing mechanics, and don't just "stiff arm" swing.

In other words, a veteran may be somewhat faster in absolute speed, but their speed relative to a base fighter is tremendously faster. That's why you get relatively out of shape vets who demolish newer fighters. Instead of just moving their shield faster, they may just move their shield more efficiently.

Obviously you can compensate for this by athletic training. However, I argue that getting rid of the "inefficiencies" such as pulling your sword too far back or not moving your shield all the way down to your feet will provide far easier short and long term gains than any form of purely physical training. Hence, my broad "technique" suggestion.

I'm not saying each new guy has to focus on uber tricksy feints, spins, counter-swings, and combos first. Just focus on the very basics. Where to hold your sword, where to hold your shield, how to stand. How to do basic shield blocks, or basic sword swings that don't telegraph your shot too badly.

Once you get basic technique down, then you can work on speed, accuracy, power, or even better technique such as feints. Until then, you fight a seriously uphill battle if you just rely on how fast or strong you are. How many fighters do we see on the field who still swing while their sword is sitting on their shoulders way behind their head, or starting from behind their body? How many fighters drop their shield so low to a feint that it is nearly impossible to recover in time?

Mah, reading Bhadar's post again, maybe we are not saying quite the same things. My base suggestion is to take each viewpoint as a "viewpoint", and not as absolutely and exclusively the "right thing' to do. Take what works for you, discard what doesn't. If it doesn't make sense or feels like BS to you, you don't have to use it.
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Postby Vak » Fri May 11, 2007 10:22 pm

I noticed a lot of talk more on an individual, 1 on 1 fighting. But as a new person it may be best to stick with a group. Numbers can help. If there are a gourp of 5 new people, pick a person and attack all at once. Thats 5 swords swinging at once.

Communication is key on the battlefield. You can be the best one on one fighter out there but, on the battlefield you will need to work with others to really last.
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Postby Talion » Sat May 12, 2007 10:50 am

I think the whole speed, power, and accuracy thing just got kinda mixed up.

Simply put, if you're using a music example, let's say piano. I can have all the speed and power I want, but if I play the wrong notes, it'll sound horrible. If I learn accuracy, it will allow me to use my speed and power more effectively.

Accuracy enables you to use the speed and power you have better; it does not necessarily increase your speed and power.
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Postby Davit » Mon May 14, 2007 8:14 am

While I agree that all the things listed above are important, no VERY important, especially the precision and accuracy part**, there are a few things that a lot of people that are impatient, and lets face it most of us are, could do to improve themselves.

#1. When at an event, go fight people you are having a hard time with, NOT WITH THE PEOPLE YOU FIGHT EVERY WEEK AT PRATICE. I know that it’s hard to break out of your shell sometimes, but if you fight the same people you practice with you are going to learn very little that is new. Ask that guy over there that’s been pummeling you and 15 other people to spar, it will do you good in the long run and the worst they can say is no. Every event I see new people fight new people from their realm and it makes me sad, you get very little benefit out of it, and no benefit out it that you couldn’t get at your home field.

#2. This goes with #1, if you are sparing someone and they are doing something you are having trouble with ASK THEM ABOUT IT, more than likely if they are willing to spend time sparing with you they are willing to spend time showing you how to get better.

#3. Enjoy yourself, if you are getting frustrated take a damned break. Nothing keeps you from learning more than getting to the point where you can’t think well and it makes you look like a jerk.

#4. Be willing to help out with both fighting and non fighting stuff at events. I know it probably isn’t your event and sometimes people will tell you that no they have things under control, but they will remember you, and often take some extra time out to help you with something you need/want in the future.

#5. Tell your friends!!! It will do you no good to keep all of this to yourself. If you learn something help others learn something when you get back to all those guys you fight with every week. Because if the people you fight every week get better most likely so will you.

#6. Last but not least, do not be offended if someone tells you no. Most likely they just want to get to fighting, or are going to need to do something shortly and want to enjoy themselves for a bit, THIS IS A GAME. Very few of us get paid to help people learn how to swing stick, and it is not anyone’s duty to make you happy by doing so.

** yes, precision and accuracy are different, if you don't understand ask me in person sometime, it's easier to explain with my hands waving all over the place.
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Postby Roanoa Kiran » Mon May 14, 2007 10:23 am

Well said Davit
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Postby Davit » Mon May 14, 2007 11:21 am

One more thing I almost forgot, NEVER HAVE YOUR HEAD IN FRONT OF YOUR CHEST. You will be opening yourself to headshots and not have any reason to whine when someone clocks you one. One of the best stances I've seen involves "puffing" your chest out in front of the head both making sure you are not going to get a headshot, and making sure that people do not think you are headboxing.**


**For someone who doesn’t know what headboxing is, it involves purposefully using your head as a shield(don't do it or you are a dirty cheater).
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Postby Tren » Tue May 15, 2007 8:59 am

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7mWIK6Eizw&mode=related&search=

It's an SCA video but I think it's all pretty relevant to Bel

A couple of things I'd say to new fighters

1. Anime battle poses may look cool, but tend to leave you wide open

2. Spins have their use, but twirling like a dervish gets you killed and or accidentally smashed in the face

3. Even if you think you can effectively use 36'' 3/4 pvc blues to fight florentine, you can't.
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Postby falcon » Thu May 24, 2007 8:16 pm

All of this is great advise but don't be thinking about it in the middle of a battle. That will just get you killed. if you use you logical mind you will be reacting slower. If you are fighting and are thimking logicly like 2+2=4 you will not last,because when you get to the second 2 you are dead. the best way to develope this is to have someone attack you in the same wayrepeatedly. Then you react in the same way after so many times you won't have to think.
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Postby Dabbanoth » Thu May 24, 2007 8:24 pm

I disagree with you falcon, i think its better to think hard about how you are fighting/what to do/when to do it. At first it will get you killed alot, but in time, it will become faster and in more rapid succession that you are able to process the things that are going on. You used a math problem as an example; when you see 2+2=? you automatically register 4, but did you when you were in kindergarten and they first tought you that? no. You had to think about it, but with time, it will just become as much muscle memory as problems like that are memorization.
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Postby XÆPLBNK » Fri May 25, 2007 7:02 am

3. Even if you think you can effectively use 36'' 3/4 pvc blues to fight florentine, you can't.


Point to note - I use 48" long 1"diameter wooden red bastardswords to fight florentine. Admittedly it isn't as quick as my 24" Hatchets, but I like it just as much because the extra reach is an incredible advantage. Never say never :P

I entirely agree with the anime dervishes though, which happen with suprising regularity. It's just a passing phase.

And on headboxing, my group simply counts headshots as legal to avoid this kind of silliness - plus, it means that people with shields actually have to use them in an effective and proper manner. Before we were counting headshots as legal, we noted that many people were just hitting their oppoent's heads to create an opening and a bit of confusion, then following up to somwhere else anyways.
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Postby Davit » Fri May 25, 2007 8:42 am

Well, as we are in belegarth I know that individual realms can and do have their own rules, I strongly suggest that you do not include headshots in your fighting. Some reasons for this are:
#1 Being "punch drunk" has some horrible consequences later in life.
#2 It is hard as hell to stop yourself from using your muscle memory in other realms and at events where headshots ARE NOT ALLOWED and are highly frowned upon, it will get you a very bad reputation if you start doing them with regularity.
#3 Getting hit in the head makes people angry because it hurts.
But as I said it's your realm and you can do what you want.

Another thing I have thought of in the past little bit, especially with the 2+2=? comment...

For some people the no-mind philosophy works well in fighting, I am one of those people. I start watching the battle, look for where I'm going to fit in best (if there is no concrete plan) and then go for it, and never look back. I find when I stop thinking about what I am doing and just do it it helps me a lot. Granted IMHO this is because I think quite a bit on the side of the field, and during practice to get myself to the point where I don't have to think what I'm doing.
Even so, there are a lot of people who do it completely the opposite, Morbian and Bhakdar for example are some of the most "thoughtful" fighters I have met so far in this sport. And they do very well indeed.

Find what works for you, some people are good at doing things my way, others are horrible at it. But find something you think will work and go for it, remember this is a game, a damned competitive and fun game, but still a game. If you stop having fun GET OFF THE FIELD FOR A WHILE. Learning when you need to stop for a bit is the hardest thing to get a handle on in this game, I still have a hard time with it at some points.

Good luck to everyone in making themselves better and coming up with new challenges for themselves.
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Postby Izanaki » Fri May 25, 2007 10:56 am

When you die on the field, ask the person who killed you, if there was anything they saw you do, that you could improve on. If you keep dying, and think you suck at using a shield, ask around, and maybe you'll realize it is maybe because of how your using it, or not using it.
Never put yourself down, otherwise, you'll never succeed. If you say "I suck, i should just quit," then you already have, but if you are constructive and say "well i was slow to react for X reason, but i can work on it," then you'll do well IMO.
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Postby falcon » Fri May 25, 2007 11:39 am

Dagganoth when things become reflex you aren't thinking but it is best to develope reflex outside the battle and then test it in battle.
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Postby XÆPLBNK » Sun May 27, 2007 12:14 pm

Well, as we are in belegarth I know that individual realms can and do have their own rules, I strongly suggest that you do not include headshots in your fighting. Some reasons for this are:
#1 Being "punch drunk" has some horrible consequences later in life.
#2 It is hard as hell to stop yourself from using your muscle memory in other realms and at events where headshots ARE NOT ALLOWED and are highly frowned upon, it will get you a very bad reputation if you start doing them with regularity.
#3 Getting hit in the head makes people angry because it hurts.
But as I said it's your realm and you can do what you want.


Belegarth swords are supposed to be adequately padded to avoid injury. To this extent, they should be padded enough to not caus injury to the head. If they do not cause injury to the head, why should they not be used against the head?
1. I agree that dementia pugilistica is a serious condition. I also believe that if a sword can cause concussions, it shouldn't be passed. And if a single person recieves more than one concussion during their belegarth career, they should consider investing in some headgear or not being so careless.
2. I also agree with this statement somewhat. I agree that headshots on people who don't expect them doesn't make friends. However, headshots are perfectly legal in belegarth - they simply don't score a point of injury. I personally believe that the head should simply be made a legal target area, and that helmets should be considered a far more important peice of armor than they currently are.
3. Getting hit in the head stuns people, because they aren't used to it. I entirely contest that it hurts more to be hit in the head, than to be hit in any other vital area.

I practice among friends, all roughly the same age as myself. I can understand people not wanting to include headshots on young people (ages 14 or below), but as far as I'm concerned, there's no reason to so paranoid about them in 9 out of 10 cases. I really do not understand why they are not legal.

If anybody has further information about this, please PM me, or have a moderator move this to its own thread if necessary. I don't want to hijack yet another thread.
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Postby Bhakdar » Sun May 27, 2007 12:49 pm

Building on Davit's comments about thinking while you fight, I've begun learning in that field lately:

In my first couple years of fighting, I thought a lot about what was going on, watching people, during a duel, anytime. I analyzed and described and tried to think and figure. This will make you more conscious of what's happening during battle and allow you to systematically overcome challenges. For example, if Joeblow swings a shoulder drop, I shrug my shield shoulder up. I block successfully; yay. This observe what's happening, think how to fix it, then practice the fix, works well on a meta-level of figuring out 'how do I deal with Joeblow killing me?'

As a developing fighter, watching and thinking about technique, maneuvers & counters will build you. As an advanced fighter however, your thoughts will dissipate and muscle memory and warrior spirit will take over.

Currently, I don't think much in the middle of a fight at all, other than registering where openings are and thus where gets swung at. Sometimes revelations come but ultimately in the thick of field battle your instincts will take over if you've honed basic technique over time. Vets have the experience of watching and wording about what's going on in battle to a point where they can describe what's going on and how to correct mistakes. There's enough time and room for that off the field, but not as its happening.

Yes, I can think about fighting clearly and describe it concisely. That helped me put together how to be more effective. Practice a lot and in time you will begin to play more by feel. In my experience, the spirit you put with your sword will be much more consistent than one's thoughts behind swinging once basic technique is solidified.

In conclusion; Learn basic technique and theory from someone who is good at analyzing & explaining. Don't hold yourself back from soaking in on the though level. Practice basic technique into oblivion. Let it become instinct and mere warriorship will take you over in your truly highest moments on the battlefield.
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Postby Rhys » Sun May 27, 2007 10:23 pm

Izanaki wrote:Never put yourself down, otherwise, you'll never succeed. If you say "I suck, i should just quit," then you already have, but if you are constructive and say "well i was slow to react for X reason, but i can work on it," then you'll do well IMO.


I agree with Izanaki. But another thing that all fighters should do is think they will win. I was fighting a well seasoned vet and I kept going into the fight thinking I would lose, and I did. Then I went up against him and though "you know, I'm gonna win this one." Go figure, killed him without losing a limb. So just be confident when you fight and it can really really help you out.[/i]
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Postby Georghiu Leonte » Mon May 28, 2007 12:22 am

Be the last one to take a break and the first one to come back.

I am amazed in the small group I practice, how much of 'practice' is socializing. It is great to have friends, even better if they fight, but if you spend 1/4 of your practice relaxing, you will get better that much slower.
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Postby Olos » Mon May 28, 2007 8:54 am

XÆPLBNK wrote:
Well, as we are in belegarth I know that individual realms can and do have their own rules, I strongly suggest that you do not include headshots in your fighting. Some reasons for this are:
#1 Being "punch drunk" has some horrible consequences later in life.
#2 It is hard as hell to stop yourself from using your muscle memory in other realms and at events where headshots ARE NOT ALLOWED and are highly frowned upon, it will get you a very bad reputation if you start doing them with regularity.
#3 Getting hit in the head makes people angry because it hurts.
But as I said it's your realm and you can do what you want.


Belegarth swords are supposed to be adequately padded to avoid injury. To this extent, they should be padded enough to not caus injury to the head. If they do not cause injury to the head, why should they not be used against the head?
1. I agree that dementia pugilistica is a serious condition. I also believe that if a sword can cause concussions, it shouldn't be passed. And if a single person recieves more than one concussion during their belegarth career, they should consider investing in some headgear or not being so careless.
2. I also agree with this statement somewhat. I agree that headshots on people who don't expect them doesn't make friends. However, headshots are perfectly legal in belegarth - they simply don't score a point of injury. I personally believe that the head should simply be made a legal target area, and that helmets should be considered a far more important peice of armor than they currently are.
3. Getting hit in the head stuns people, because they aren't used to it. I entirely contest that it hurts more to be hit in the head, than to be hit in any other vital area.

I practice among friends, all roughly the same age as myself. I can understand people not wanting to include headshots on young people (ages 14 or below), but as far as I'm concerned, there's no reason to so paranoid about them in 9 out of 10 cases. I really do not understand why they are not legal.

If anybody has further information about this, please PM me, or have a moderator move this to its own thread if necessary. I don't want to hijack yet another thread.


1 out of 10 headshots that you have to be paranoid about is far too many.

That's like saying body shots are perfectly fine because 9 out of 10 of them don't hit you in the nuts. I can guarantee you that if I got hit in the nuts once every 10 times someone hit my body, I probably would find another game or do a lot more arching.


While the majority of headshots are probably fine, some people swing hard, and there would be concussions at every event. Unacceptable. Also, shots to certain parts of the face (nose, eyes) can cause permanent damage.

It would be nice to have the realism aspect of headshots and helmets, but IMO, it just isnt worth it.
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Postby Kenneth » Mon May 28, 2007 9:39 am

XÆPLBNK wrote:2. I also agree with this statement somewhat. I agree that headshots on people who don't expect them doesn't make friends. However, headshots are perfectly legal in belegarth - they simply don't score a point of injury.

I personally believe that the head should simply be made a legal target area, and that helmets should be considered a far more important peice of armor than they currently are.



3.2.3. The Head is an illegal Target Area for Class 1, 2, and 3 Weapons. The Head is a legal Target Area for Class 4 and 5 Weapons.

Actually, head shots are illegal. When somebody is hit in the head, then somewhere else, an illegal shot was performed on them.

The weapons are padded to the extent that they are safe for their intended usage. The intended usage of a weapon does not include repeated baseball swings to the head. When you increase the frequency of head shots by making them "legal", which has the effect of actually making people target the heads with full force, my opinion for the safety of weapons goes drastically down.

If I am heralding and see somebody deliberately gunning for heads, I'll toss them off the field. Head shots happen. They shouldn't happen deliberately.

Back on track:
I agree. There's an awful lot of time spent socializing. Last person to take a break, and first person back. Last person off the field at the end of the day. Experience works wonders.
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Postby XÆPLBNK » Mon May 28, 2007 1:30 pm

1 out of 10 headshots that you have to be paranoid about is far too many.

9 out of 10 people, not headshots. It is not a randomized thing, it never was, and I don't have any idea where you got that interpretation. 9/10 people are old and healthy enough to take headshots, the remaining 1/10 of people not being qualified for this. That is what it meant. That is all that it meant.

If there would be concussions at every event from this, then that leads to the question of "why the hell are weapons that can cause concussions passed?! WHY!?!". IMO, we shouldn't ban shoelaces just because someone might get strangled. (Yes, this is a metaphor.) The whole sport itself is far less dangerous than football, hocky, or even soccer - I don't think the paranoia of pain should have such heavy sway on the rules.

BUT, that's the way the cookie crumbles, I think I've complained my point of view enough, and would really prefer that this thread not get hijacked (because until my off-topic post, it was going very well. My apologies).
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Postby Olos » Mon May 28, 2007 3:16 pm

You said 9 out of 10 cases, I read that as being 9 out of 10 headshots.

Kenny, I think you can attest that you don't want someone like Fergus swinging for your head (without that sca sytle helm on).

Also, they wear full protection sytle helmets in football and hockey, we don't (other than a few), and I'd like to not see it become common.
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Postby Izanaki » Mon May 28, 2007 4:22 pm

A tip that most beginners should think about, getting decent garb. First week is OK to wear blue jeans, etc, but once your getting on four or five weeks depending on if you make it yourself, or order it online, and you have practice more than once a week, your cutting it kind of thin.

You may be less likely to be seen as a serious participant if your fighting in your everyday wear. Many people are guilty of not wearing garb, and at times, it is OK to not have garb assuming its forgotten, etc, but it shouldn't be an excuse not to get garb.

On the topic of head shots, head shots are too dangerous, unless you want to fight with fun noodles. The whole entirety of the head is a sensative area, and there are plenty of places on the head to injure.

The eyes, nose, mouth (teeth, etc), ears, neck, jaw.

Hit someone hard enough in the nose, it could break, hit the eye socket hard enough, that can break as well (it is bone) maybe even cause vision damage, hit their mouth and it may break out teeth, hit the ears, may damage the ear and affect a person's hearing, neck is fairly strong, but serious damage can happen, and the jaw can be dislocated, broken, etc.

Do you want to be taking red shots to the neck/head?
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Postby Freswinn » Mon May 28, 2007 7:34 pm

In one day I was hit in the nose by a stray shield bash (Tibbs), which made it bleed, and then hit across the bridge of the nose with a full-force red shot, at the tip, that brushed up over my shield (Talus). Then, a few days later, I was hit with a bullseye jav throw (Olos) which partially seperated the cartelidge in my nose from the bone that supports it -- Black Company javs are heavier than most.

With as bad of luck as I have in taking shots in the face that hit my nose with surprising regularity, I would outright QUIT if headshots were legal with melee weapons. If you want legal headshots, follow HACS or do SCA, where you actually have a helmet on.
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Postby XÆPLBNK » Mon May 28, 2007 7:57 pm

Do you want to be taking red shots to the neck/head?

Seeing as that's how I practice: Yes, I do. That is all that I'm going to say on the subject. It is clear that many people believe it to be a safety issue. It is also clear that while my arguments seem logical to me, they will not gain any ground against those who are adamant in their own ways as well. In short, I'd rather just agree to disagree. (Though I know that at National events I can't use headshots).
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Postby Bhakdar » Mon May 28, 2007 11:53 pm

Rhys made the biggest point for new fighters to get past in my opinion. Confidence in the most powerful asset of any fighter on the field. The worst thing that can happen is you'll get whacked with a foam stick and pretend to be dead. The best is figuring out you had way more capacity to whack people than you thought.

Confidence is a mentality firmly holding on to your capacity to come out on top or do amazing things. It is the most positive energy you can hold on the field whether you know you can dispatch your enemy easily or not.

Confidence only becomes negative when it turns into pride-hiding (slang for not taking hits of those one thinks their better than). This is a sort of 'power corrupts' deal. If a 'respected' veteran isn't taking your shots due to their confidence in their being better than you, call them on it or a herald. It's cheating due to ego, and truly on the continuum of cowardice rather than true confidence. (On the contrary, a veteran on a national field will require you to hit them with sufficient force whether you're new or not)
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Postby Sir Cairbre » Tue May 29, 2007 6:10 am

Could someone put the content of this post together into :
http://www.geddon.org/index.php/Start_Fighting

I Will then make a page on Belelgarth.com with the content.
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Postby Raccoon » Mon Jun 04, 2007 6:27 pm

If you're being even halfway serious about your fighting then you should be using some form of shield at all times. Even if both hands are full you can always use a buckler or a shield on your back. Just remember...
"Don't take the field if you don't have a shield."
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Postby Aonghus » Tue Jun 05, 2007 8:04 am

Raccoon wrote:If you're being even halfway serious about your fighting then you should be using some form of shield at all times. Even if both hands are full you can always use a buckler or a shield on your back. Just remember...
"Don't take the field if you don't have a shield."


I know plenty of people who do absolutely fine without a shield fighting florentine. If you are good at blocking and parrying and dodging, why add weight?
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Postby Archaeus » Tue Jun 05, 2007 8:38 am

If you're being even halfway serious about your fighting then you should be using some form of shield at all times. Even if both hands are full you can always use a buckler or a shield on your back. Just remember...
"Don't take the field if you don't have a shield."


Completely disagree. Agility fighters thrive on their ability to move faster then their opponent, a buckler would just bog down your off hand or make you try to focus too hard on where the shield is. The one on the back is just a weight that slows down your overall flow.

If you aren't an agility fighter then by all means go turtle soldier. Sometimes agility is a dumpstat :P.
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Postby Black Cat » Tue Jun 05, 2007 9:09 am

Aonghus wrote:
Raccoon wrote:If you're being even halfway serious about your fighting then you should be using some form of shield at all times. Even if both hands are full you can always use a buckler or a shield on your back. Just remember...
"Don't take the field if you don't have a shield."


I know plenty of people who do absolutely fine without a shield fighting florentine. If you are good at blocking and parrying and dodging, why add weight?


Why use a buckler?

Arrows.

Those "pesky things" (as many fighters are sure to call them) give you two options for good field survivability without going sword-and-board. You can either get a buckler and learn how to use it well, or you can learn to dodge. Either will work well if you get skilled at it. Doing both will increase your ability to avoid getting hit by arrows even more.

These two methods seem to be the ones that give me the most trouble as an archer, and the two effectively combined can give me as much trouble trying to hit my target as a tower punch shield user whom I can't flank.

As for backshields, I haven't encountered them enough to say much about them either way.
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Postby varadin » Tue Jun 05, 2007 10:42 am

Theres only two things i say to ever fighter that ever hits the field and asks me for help.

1- Fight how you want to fight, this game is about fun. If someone is telling you what to do take their advice but if its uncomfortable or doesnt feel right for you maybe it just wont work right.

2- Fight solo blue on solo blue as much as you can. Blue on blue teaches you the basics of fighting. You learn about dodging, and footwork and just how important they are. The best defense is just not being there when the swing comes
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Postby Raccoon » Mon Jun 18, 2007 11:29 pm

Aonghus and Archaeus
The right punch shield strapped to your back would weigh little enough that encumberance would be negligable. The main thing about a backshield is to try and figure out the proper width and length for you.
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Postby Davit » Tue Jun 19, 2007 7:54 am

It's all about how you feel comfortable fighting, try something new and if you don't like it move on.
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Postby Verto » Mon Jun 25, 2007 9:53 am

Thanks guys! This helps a lot! :armor1:
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