Ranking system (* I'm a genius)

[Todo]

My brother Ketetsu (Elmo) and myself came up with a dandy little ranking system for our high school Belegarth faction. I've tried to make it as versatile as possible, allowing for both combatants who excel in being alone/in a small group and for those that don't always fight the greatest but can lead a troop with the best of them to rank up. Any advice or helpful critiques from other units with successful ranking systems?



Gladiators Ranking System

Rank D:

Every Gladiator who has not yet been ranked or has not yet ascended in rank is a class ‘D’ fighter. These fighters should be pushed to improve themselves at all costs, and should always listen to helpful advice from all Gladiators.

How to rise in rank: Choose your desired number of teammates
Choose that number +2 for your number of opponents
Choose your opponents
Ketetsu or Todo will choose your supporting team, and will
balance accordingly for fairness in some cases
Must achieve victory

Rank C:

Your average or mildly above aforementioned Gladiator. These Gladiators have proven their ability to a standard level, and that they belong in the rank and file of the Gladiators. Said Gladiator should commonly be given assisstance in technique from near all other Gladiators.

How to rise in rank: Choose your desired number of teammates
Choose that number +2 for your number of opponents
Choose half of your opponents (Rounded up, if odd number)
Ketetsu or Todo will choose your supporting team and other half of opposing team
Must achieve victory


Rank B:

A Gladiator that has shown above standard, all around ability. Has proven leadership abilities, is proficient in a variety of weapon styles, and often times rises above the main of the Gladiators to meet challenges presented before them. Will occasionally be given advice by superiors, often times on a smaller scale than a D-C rank.

How to rise in rank: Choose your desired number of teammates
Choose that number +2 for your number of opponents
Ketetsu or Todo will choose your supporting team and
opposing team
Must achieve victory

Rank A:

Few Gladiators are of this skill or above. These Gladiators are the upper echelon of the Gladiator school, and as such should be treated with respect. These Gladiators have demonstrated extremely adept leadership skills, have proven themselves many times in combat, and are often a deciding factor of a fight. Congratulations to all those who have achieved this rank.

How to rise in rank: Must be approached by Todo and Ketetsu (You cannot ask
to rise to S rank)
Both Todo and Ketetsu will be on opposing team in addition
to half current Gladiator school
Ascending Gladiator must make the tactics for his team (no
suggestions-- only compliance by Gladiator’s teammates)
Does not need to achieve victory-- rank ascension will be
judged on subjective factors by Todo and Ketetsu

Rank S:

The best of the best. These are the elite of the Gladiator school, those who have fought longer and harder than the rest. These Gladiators will almost always provide a crucial role in a battle, and have achieved the ability to lead on the fly and from the front. Few and far between.

How to rise in rank: No further ascension






If my fellow Belegrim would give me a hand with this, I'd be extra appreciative. Thanks for your time,

Todo

[Magpie Saegar]

My one issue with your ranking system is that there's no actual concrete criteria... it's all subjective. You're basically saying that everyone's D... but then if they're better, they're C.... and if they're even better, then they're B, etc....

If you put in certain concrete benchmarks that need to be surpassed, fighters will then be able to strive towards that. (E.g., the fighter must challenge and defeat X fighters in best 2 of 3 combat during a single practice... or... he/she must be recommended by someone of higher rank..... or.... he/she must a 1v2 battle, a 1v3 battle, a 1v4 battle, etc (based on rank)).

Also, you should ask: why are you ranking in the first place? Will something good come out of it? Will it just inflate egos and cause tension/arguing like any popularity contest?

Finally, I would recommend adding in some non-combat criteria. You could say that rank B requires decent garb and ownership of own weapons. rank C could require all that AND having been to a national event (and some of the fighting criteria). You could also have certain ranks require being able to herald for at least 30 minutes each week.... or putting up fliers and recruiting... or other such non-combat service-related criteria.

[Sir_Mel]

Also, did you really have to steal the ranking system from Naruto. I mean, if you went through all the work and trouble of making this ranking system, why would limit in such a way.

[Bortas]

Ok, so this will almost for certain paste like *:

This is Talinor's system for battlefield rank; it isn't perfect, but it is our own. We'll probably decide to make some changes here and there as we progress.3


Recruit

Soldier

Warrior

Captain

Hero

Legend
1) Practices Attended

1

3

(must first be a Soldier)

(must first be a Skirmisher)

(must first be a Captain)

(must first be a Hero)
2) Garb Required

N/A

Minimum garb

Minimum garb

Good garb

Impressive garb

Multiple outfits of impressive garb
3) Weapons Required

N/A

N/A

One for each hand

One for each hand

Several

Many
4a) Multi-Realm Events Attended (minor)

N/A

N/A

N/A

2

5

10
4b) National Events Attended (major)

N/A

N/A

N/A

N/A

2

5
5) Weapons Donated

N/A

N/A

N/A

3

5 + 1 shield

10 + 2 shields
6) Active Recruits

N/A

N/A

N/A

3

5

10
7a) Combat Test

N/A

Demonstrate clear understanding of combat rules

Defeat two Soldiers at once

Defeat three Warriors in turn

Defeat three Captains in turn

Defeat three Heroes in turn
7b) Combat Test(part 2)

N/A

N/A

N/A

N/A

Defeat three Warriors in turn while wielding a single blue

Defeat all active members of Talinor in turn
Reward(s)

N/A

N/A

May take up archery

May start & lead own unit within Talinor

(undecided)

(undecided)

1.
Practices: official Talinor get-togethers; more formal than a couple of guys sparring at the park, less formal than an event.
2.
Garb requirements: garb is the sport of foam-fighting's uniform and required of all! Remember; there is a difference between armor and garb; being in armor doesn't make you in garb! Also, keep in mind there is likely a difference between garb you would wear in combat vs. garb you would wear to a feast... (see garb section for pictures & ideas)
* Minimum garb: minimum as defined by Talinor's rulebook (ie: tunic & sweatpants). You are at least making an attempt to fit in.
* Good garb: more than just the minimum: boots (instead of tennis shoes), no visible company logos, no obviously manufactured clothing visible (ie: Under Armor brand shirts). You are putting in good effort, and it shows your garb.
* Impressive garb: period footwear, elaborate handmade clothing. No one can tell you didn't just arrive via time machine.
3.
Weapons required: one weapon for each hand can mean any of several combinations, such as two-handed weapon (great sword, glaive, spear, etc.), two one-handed weapons (two long swords, sword & mace, etc.) or shield plus weapon. Heros should have and be familiar with the use of several types of weapons. Legends should have many weapons and be excellent with them all.
4.
Events: required so the officer can gain notoriety, in and outside of Talinor.
* Minor event: A local event involving more than one realms. Likely an all day event, or perhaps a weekend event. Something you might see people from different cities at, perhaps even a few different states. This could be something informal between a couple of realms, or something more formal, such as Western Wars.
* Major event: A national event involving many realms and multiple days holding battles on an enormous scale. This is a formal event, such as Ragnarok, Chaos Wars, Armageddon, etc.
5.
Weapons donated: in order for Talinor to continue to grow, we need a steady supply of weapons for our fresh recruits to use.
6.
Active recruits: for Talinor to continue to grow, we need a steady supply of fresh blood. Bringing in your friends, coworkers, and random people you used to not like (but would really like to beat on!) is so important.
7.
Combat tests: a fighter must complete all other requirements for a rank prior to requesting a combat test. Some ranks have more than one combat test in order to achieve that rank.
8.
Rewards: achieving certain ranks will grant the officer certain benefits. For example, a skirmisher is granted the option to take up archery (because archery is the most advanced and dangerous portion of our sport), a captain can create their own unit to lead within Talinor. Hero & Legend rewards are not decided, we will reconsider when we have people actually approach that rank.

Talinor made a ranking system, we've been fighting with it in place for a few months now, feel free to take a look and comment: http://www.talinor.org/modules.php?name ... age&pid=34

-bort

[Thomas MacFinn]

... you should ask: why are you ranking in the first place? Will something good come out of it? Will it just inflate egos and cause tension/arguing like any popularity contest?

I share Magpie's concerns. In reading this rank system, I was reminded of a story that I had just shared a couple days ago on another forum. I'll copy it here since I think it applies:

Once upon a time, I was a member of a tiny SCA group in coastal North Carolina. At the time of my story, there were two fighters in that group, myself and Quinton, who were good enough that we could defeat any other newbie ninety percent of the time. Also in that group was a fighter named Jack who had put a lot of effort into training with Quinton and me at local practices and had the best equipment of the three of us, but he had yet to attend a single tournament despite a lot of encouragement from Quinton and me.

One day, Jack returned from vacation and said to Quinton and me, "You guys know how you keep saying you aren’t that good? … You’re not." Jack went on to explain that he had held off on attending tournaments because he did not want to embarrass himself: he wanted to get skilled first.

However, while on vacation he had attended a tournament in Florida where no one knew him. The tournament was held for the Make a Wish Foundation (a child got to be "king for a day") and had attracted the best fighters in Florida and the surrounding states. For the first time Jack got to experience the depth of skill available outside of our little town and came to the realization that Quinton and my evaluation of our skill was not modesty, but a statement of fact.

Jack realized that he wasn’t going to get "good" by fighting Quinton and I, started attending tournaments, and stopped worrying about others judging his skill level.

[Todo]

My one issue with your ranking system is that there's no actual concrete criteria... it's all subjective. You're basically saying that everyone's D... but then if they're better, they're C.... and if they're even better, then they're B, etc....

If you put in certain concrete benchmarks that need to be surpassed, fighters will then be able to strive towards that. (E.g., the fighter must challenge and defeat X fighters in best 2 of 3 combat during a single practice... or... he/she must be recommended by someone of higher rank..... or.... he/she must a 1v2 battle, a 1v3 battle, a 1v4 battle, etc (based on rank)).

Also, you should ask: why are you ranking in the first place? Will something good come out of it? Will it just inflate egos and cause tension/arguing like any popularity contest?

Finally, I would recommend adding in some non-combat criteria. You could say that rank B requires decent garb and ownership of own weapons. rank C could require all that AND having been to a national event (and some of the fighting criteria). You could also have certain ranks require being able to herald for at least 30 minutes each week.... or putting up fliers and recruiting... or other such non-combat service-related criteria.

Rising to 'S' is subjective, yes, but I fail to see how achieving the rank of 'C', 'B', or 'A' is. To rise to those ranks you must demonstrate reasoning ability in the choosing of your opponents, you must prove that you can succeed against at least slightly unfavorable odds, and you must know the favorable number of fighters to suit your fighting style. That's why it's you fighting against a force of two more people; so that it's NOT subjective. If I've missed your point, please explain.

As for why we have the rankings, it is to increase respect on the field and it is to push those at the bottom of the ladder up. No one wants to be a 'D' fighter for eternity-- a label like that warrants an 'easy kill' reaction from everyone else on the field; therefore one must strive to get better and better and eventually surpass their current rank.

Also, the unit is a after-school high school program done through a volunteer system at our hallowed scholarly halls, and there's not much that one can do in the way of off the field-- Ketetsu and I are the only ones that have been to a national event; and I don't see that changing too soon.

As for the 'Naruto' post, I have no idea what you're talking about. Where did that even come from?

[Magpie Saegar]

Ahhh, looking back, I misread your post. I based my "it's all subjective" argument on the first paragraph for each rank... I somehow missed the second one labeled "how to rise in rank." My bad.

I would argue that there is still non-fighting stuff. I don't mean like arts and sciences (though there's nothing wrong with those...) but demonstrating leadership potential, recruiting ability, foamsmithing skill, or decent garb capabilities should always be encouraged.

The thing with respect is that you can never mandate it, and a title will never confer it. Titles give responsibility... respect will come or go on its own. (There have been some good posts about this.. the whole title=responsibility... I won't attempt to paraphrase them here any further). But as for the respect is not mandated... basically, you can have an amazing fighter who achieves rank, but is a jerk who doesn't care about furthering the sport/community. People will not like him or respect him, even if he has a title. And that's how it should be. There may also be people who are not great fighters, but put in a lot of precious time and work to help the sport/realm/community/etc grow. By being polite, honorable, and hardworking, this person will earn a great deal of respect, even though they may not rise in combat rank.

So I would recommend... don't think of titles as a reward for a fighter.... use them as a way of categorizing how much that fighter contributes to the sport through their actions.


(I'm not necessarily criticizing your system... I'm just rambling about information that I think is worth considering when designing a system of this sort.)

[Todo]

Ahhh, looking back, I misread your post. I based my "it's all subjective" argument on the first paragraph for each rank... I somehow missed the second one labeled "how to rise in rank." My bad.

I would argue that there is still non-fighting stuff. I don't mean like arts and sciences (though there's nothing wrong with those...) but demonstrating leadership potential, recruiting ability, foamsmithing skill, or decent garb capabilities should always be encouraged.

The thing with respect is that you can never mandate it, and a title will never confer it. Titles give responsibility... respect will come or go on its own. (There have been some good posts about this.. the whole title=responsibility... I won't attempt to paraphrase them here any further). But as for the respect is not mandated... basically, you can have an amazing fighter who achieves rank, but is a jerk who doesn't care about furthering the sport/community. People will not like him or respect him, even if he has a title. And that's how it should be. There may also be people who are not great fighters, but put in a lot of precious time and work to help the sport/realm/community/etc grow. By being polite, honorable, and hardworking, this person will earn a great deal of respect, even though they may not rise in combat rank.

So I would recommend... don't think of titles as a reward for a fighter.... use them as a way of categorizing how much that fighter contributes to the sport through their actions.


(I'm not necessarily criticizing your system... I'm just rambling about information that I think is worth considering when designing a system of this sort.)

Magpie, don't worry about criticizing my system-- it's why I put it up here. I'm not going to be one of those * who posts that they're looking for criticism in something then throws a vaginitis-infected hissy fit when someone tells them something's wrong. I'm looking for intelligent debate on how to make it better, and you're providing me with it.

You're absolutely right about the whole title and responsibility thing. There are people in my realm (Not Gladiators, but Stygia) who can beat most of the others to a pulp, but are unfair fighters and don't contribute much to, well, anything. They will get no respect of any sort from me, and more than likely no respect from anyone else.

However, this ranking system is not for how much one has done for the community of our school or anything of the sort-- it's only there as a label for how capable you are as a fighter. Everyone knows everyone in Gladiators, we all have classes together and see each other in the halls and such, and we all have fighters that we like and dislike-- we know each other's character pretty well, both on and off the field. My main reason for implementing this system is psychological. Let's have a scenario:

Fighter 1 here has a buddy that he has been equally skilled with for a while. His buddy, Fighter 2, rises in a ranking battle one day while our poor Fighter 1 does not. Fighter 1 then starts watching those more skilled than him a little more closely, starts asking for advice, and starts fighting to really get better, and grasps the sport a little bit more because of it. He then, next time ranking opportunities arise, rises in rank to his buddy, however he is now more skilled.

That's pretty much a best-case scenario of what I'm hoping for. The same scenario can also be applied to two enemies or something of the sort.

Does this post make any sense at all?

[Arrakis]

Unfortunately, the worst case is Fighter 1 gets * that you or hwoever made Fighter 2's team of opponents easier than you made his, or gave him better allies, or whatever and that "this ranking system is stupid, I'm just as good as him" and you end up causing a lot of stife for nothing.

Here in Dur-Demarion, people just know who rocks and who doesn't. People who want to rock harder find people who currently rock and ask to spar/train with them.

Yesterday, for example, I got quite a lot of good practice and wicked tips from fighting sword 'n' board vs. Illiak for some... indeterminate amount of time. Till we were both whooped-tired, anyway.

It's like, new people rapidly figure out that other new people aren't that big of a threat, people like me can put the hurt on 'em, and people like Kato or Izareth or Vo'Kor aren't to be **** with. They don't need to be told that those guys are level 5 Star+, or whatever; it's obvious.

I don't know. This isn't really a criticism of your ranking system so much as a criticism of the idea behind ranking systems. Bleh.


As far as your system in particular... I guess I would just make the tests different per level. They're all "pick a team, fight a team of opponents you pick/half pick that's alittle bigger". Boring. I'd want to see, "Survive a full-Realm meatgrinder" for an S test, or something. "Survive 4 successive 1v2 fights", "Survive 5 successive 2v2 fights with a partner of your choice," or "Pick a weapon style that is not your primary style; survive a field battle of your team v opposing team+2 while fighting in this style". You know, different stuff. Make it interesting.

Best yet, have a couple of different path-type options per level for ascension: Lone fighter path, team leader path, melee combatant path...

You get the picture.

[jacknife]

really, man. Teammates?If they don't try really hard...
or they could carry you to the top. Plus, have a large number...
the fighter being tested doesn't really get tested accurately.