Timid fighters

[Thomas MacFinn]

If somebody is too wild and aggressive, teach control.

If somebody is too timid ...

... I don't know what to do.

[Arrakis]

Teach aggression!

Put them back-to-a-wall, put them in the middle of a meat grinder circle where the ring of fighters at the edge can kill you if you get too close... Or just let them run away and not do **** for a few practices and eventually they'll get sick of not fighting.

[Thomas MacFinn]

Teach aggression!

Put them back-to-a-wall, put them in the middle of a meat grinder circle where the ring of fighters at the edge can kill you if you get too close... Or just let them run away and not do sh*t for a few practices and eventually they'll get sick of not fighting.

I'm not certain how your earlier suggestions would teach aggression. As for the latter suggestion, there is specific guy I am thinking of who fights with a big shield and runs around the battlefield looking for a chance to backstab.

One-on-one, he runs away.

Two on one in his favor, he still runs, even if his ally is a spearman ... and I think he has been doing it for years.

He is a toothpick thin person and I admire him for showing up week after week and not giving up... but some days I really get frustrated.

... and as far as I know he has no interest in archery.

[Arrakis]

Well, the first two were to put him a position where he can't run away and teach him to at least stand his ground. Then you can move to teaching him that if you attack first, you might just have an advantage.

Also, yeah, he sounds like a real problem...

[Thomas MacFinn]

I've given it some thought and the question isn't "How do I teach agression to somebody who wants to be more aggressive?" but is instead "How do I encourage somebody to want to be more aggressive?"

[Dabbanoth]

Thomas, i know who you are talking about, I taught him the A-Frame

He'll get it
One of these days

[Thomas MacFinn]

Thomas, i know who you are talking about ...

Actually, I am of the opinion that more than half (or more) of the fighters on the field are too timid. That was just one example.

I see it every time I stand my ground while Dag is on the other side at practice. He approaches me and (with a couple exceptions) my shield wall collapses into a V while he is still 5 steps away.

[Arrakis]

Yeah, badass as Dagg is, I just don't understand the mentality.

About the only time I'll back away from a fighter that I'm not backpedaling from in an engagement is when it's Sleeper with a 6+ ft. redsword and I'm Florentining.

[Thomas MacFinn]

I see it every time I stand my ground while Dag is on the other side at practice. He approaches me and (with a couple exceptions) my shield wall collapses into a V while he is still 5 steps away.

What really sucks about this is that I am a glaive fighter. I prefer friendly shields in front of me instead of behind me.

[Dabbanoth]

One of the most important things, in my opinion, for a fighter to learn, is that any fighter has the potential to beat any other fighter.

I get an occaisional lucky shot in on Bhakdar, Galin, the best of them. Although they will still stomp me into the dirt 99 times out of 100, theres always a chance that ill get that shot in.

Its just foam people, if you die one battle, no biggy, if you win one battle, again, no biggy.

[Dacian]

ya know dag...i mean this in the best way possible, but when you first showed up on these boards, i couldn't stand you (hey, at least i'm honest). Everyday you give me a reason to like you more and more. Hopefully i'll see you on a large battlefield one day. We'll have to spar.

[Sir_Mel]

ya know dag...i mean this in the best way possible, but when you first showed up on these boards, i couldn't stand you (hey, at least i'm honest). Everyday you give me a reason to like you more and more. Hopefully i'll see you on a large battlefield one day. We'll have to spar.

Agreed and agreed. I finally met him at okfest and found he's actually a cool guy (not a bad fighter either). It's good to know there's still hope for people like Zanark and Atari. Well, maybe not Zanark, but Atari still has the potential to be cool.


Anyhow, on to the topic. I wonder if the people in question are all total noobs or if they've been there a while. If they been coming for a while (which I get the impression they have) I think it might be safe to assume that they've at least grown a little bit since they started. Because of this, naturally there may be some newer guys that they are capable of beating with some degree of ease. Try to get them to spar during water breaks and what not. If they can see they are capable of beating people (even noobs) in one on one confrontations, you might be able to build their confidence enough to move on to other, more skilled fighters. Eventually you should be able to get some of them to the realization that it is possible to beat other people if they fight hard enough.


Of course, maybe for some of them, it's just their style to run around the field with a big shield and look for backs to stab. Also, we all know how scary Dagganoth is so it's definitely no surprise that your entire line cowers in fear.

[Nor]

Also, we all know how scary Dagganoth is so it's definitely on surprise that your entire line cowers in fear.

Dagganoth is like a cuddly tall skinny bear! He's not scary at all. You must be mistaken :-)

[Sir_Mel]

I would like to turn your attention to the smiley face....

[Dabbanoth]

I was thrilled with this thread
Till Nor got here

[Nor]

I would like to turn your attention to the smiley face....

I would like to turn your attention to *sarcasm*


Dagganoth, you know your cuddly as a bear Don't be silly. You can fool everyone else...but I know. jk. I'm terrified...shaking in my boots for that matter.

[Pierce]

Back on topic once again, the way that I learnt agression was through being forced to fight with only mini clubs.

I went from comfort zone of 18ft to comfort zone of 9in.

But then again I have long * monkey arms.

[Arrakis]

I like fighting with a 23" blue-green and a 24x36 heater strap or 29" round.

Close-in fighting is fun and it surely does teach aggression... assuming they ever want to hit anyone. You pretty much have to rush/charge/bash everyone, every time.

[Keberos]

The two most common problems I've see when fighters are being too timid is, They are afraid of the sword, or they do not trust their own ability to fight.

Many fighters are afraid to be swatted with those scary foam swords. There really is only one way to break that. Hit them with it. Fighters should not flinch or cower when being swung at with a foam weapon. Even if hit in the head (it comes with the sport). Its kind of like how my dad taught me how to stop being afraid of a baseball in little league, (i was catcher on my team), he padded me up in my gear and started throwing pitches at me until i could catch every one. Was scary at first (bing 12 y.o an all) but eventually i could do it naturally.

The second reason more involves the fighters own self confidence on the field. That can only be overcome by fighting more, and more training. Get this fighter in 1v1 situations and have them how off their ability. Many people are good fighters, they just don't know it because they do not release their full power. Once fighters are more accustomed to the blade however this comes more easily.

these are the two big one's i see in my group.

~Keberos

[Peanut of Loderia]

Being a relatively new fighter I was once told that Belegarth is a sport made for dying. Go, fight the best you can, and get up two minutes later. Thats what I tell the new fighters who get scared easily. That or itll only hurt for a second.

[savetuba]

They are afraid of the sword, or they do not trust their own ability to fight.

For some it is the fear of being hit or hitting others as being a bad thing.

For others the inability of trusting their own ability to fight makes them not want to learn how to fight better, so even if you meat grinder them, they will choose flight than fight.

Or they have found a way to be some what effective on their own and are content with that and thus don't feel any need to change or improve.

I had a spear man who learned how to fight on his own and be somewhat effective. Because he was able to kill maybe 1 or 2 people and rack up a lot of limbs (mostly legs) he didn't feel it was important to learn how to fight with anyone else. So during a raid event I told one of my shield men to help him out, however the spear man wouldn't cooperate. Got them both killed, until everyone agreed to use him as a distraction. Event then it sucked when You had to fight with him. I remember fighting glaive, being supported by a tank with a tower and after legging a great fighter, He ran over and started harassing his shield by stepping in front of me(thus preventing me from getting any good shield break swings in) and crossing his spear to hit the weapon side of the enemy's shield.(preventing the tank from taking the weapon arm or kicking the shield) because he was interfering with our effectiveness it allowed the enemy to wait for help.

[Drifter]

I could understand someone afraid of getting hit. I got a two-handed long red sword fully swung into my arm and that hurt like all hell. Personally, though I'm new, I'm not afraid to fight or get hit. Timidity doesn't hold me back sometimes, rather than I don't feel like rushing someone when I'm out of breath. Could be that I'm just battle lazy sometimes.

[jacknife]

get a red sword
get a pit about 10 feet across(no really, corner him)
and make him fight you until he gets ten or so kills in.
his weapon: a little blue stabber

[Thomas MacFinn]

get a red sword
get a pit about 10 feet across(no really, corner him)
and make him fight you until he gets ten or so kills in.
his weapon: a little blue stabber

As you saw today, that's not really that fun. I certainly don't want my attempts to help to drive people away instead.

[Elohssa Y'trid]

get a red sword
get a pit about 10 feet across(no really, corner him)
and make him fight you until he gets ten or so kills in.
his weapon: a little blue stabber

As you saw today, that's not really that fun. I certainly don't want my attempts to help to drive people away instead.

Yeah, that pretty much sounds like you're picking on the kid. Especially if he/she's not good at punchblocks and you're a decent red wielder.

You're from Dun Abhon, right, Jacknife?

[Thomas MacFinn]

Much to my surprise, I'm starting to think teaching long spear may be one solution.

If you have a blue sword (with or without a shield), you pretty much have to agress an eight foot spear ... especially if the guy holding the spear has a habit of saying "range, range, range: I can stand back here all day" ten or fifteen times in a day.

When I teach a weapon, the first lesson is "here's how you hold and attack with the thing" and the second is usually "here is how they are going to try and kill you"

[Vak]

I am somewhat a timid fighter. Depending on the type of battles. I know on field battles I am more timid and try to be more of a pain in the * rather than rushing in. Since Fields are what we do a lot it took me a while to get out of that.

When I have a shield I feel like I can sit back more and not agress.

But when I am useing a red I feel like I need to just throw down crazy style.

Anyway I dont know if that was on topic.

Give him a red sword and some armor and tell him to go in and try and kill everything that moves. Aggression.

[jacknife]

get a red sword
get a pit about 10 feet across(no really, corner him)
and make him fight you until he gets ten or so kills in.
his weapon: a little blue stabber

As you saw today, that's not really that fun. I certainly don't want my attempts to help to drive people away instead.

what do you mean? I had fun.
I'm just sad I didn't get to use a javelin.
the only thing Not fun is getting grappled

[Nakamoto Amuro]

One of the most important things, in my opinion, for a fighter to learn, is that any fighter has the potential to beat any other fighter.

I get an occaisional lucky shot in on Bhakdar, Galin, the best of them. Although they will still stomp me into the dirt 99 times out of 100, theres always a chance that ill get that shot in.

Its just foam people, if you die one battle, no biggy, if you win one battle, again, no biggy.

I've gotten one good shot in on Bhakdar, which he quickly followed up with multiple nut-shots >_<.

[Evias]

About two years ago, our unit had three or four really timid fighters. It took us about three or four weeks to cure it, but it definately worked. Those same fighters are now very aggressive.

We used to training approach called "The circle." Not a very fancy name, I know, heh. It's just as simple as it sounds. Create a circle on your practice field (We did this with white spray paint on our field, this might not be an option for you.) with a diameter of about 10 feet. Have him duel a reliable sword and board fighter within the circle for an hour or two every practice. If he steps out of the circle, call him dead.

It will change a person's muscle memory to work well in small spaces, and stop at ever-obnoxious running away habit. It also helps the fighter being trained to cope with combating aggressive fighters.

I hope this helps! It sure helped some of our guys.

[Thomas MacFinn]

I've gotten one good shot in on Bhakdar, which he quickly followed up with multiple nut-shots >_<.

Just last Saturday, Kelmar yelled out from a fetal position on the floor, "I didn't say I never needed a cup, just that I never wore one."

Sorry to de-rail my own thread but I always wear a cup when fighting and encourage anyone else out there to do so as well. I've never aimed for a groin but have certainly seen a lot of shots end up there and a cup is the cheapest piece of hard armor you can buy.

[Mercer]

Never taken a hard crotch shot, but I've dealt out many... Trust me, get a cup. Some big f@%^er with a hard 2-hander pinning your 'nads between that irresistable force and your thigh's immovable object is NOT a good thing.

[Nakamoto Amuro]

Thomas.... you've never had a nut shot till you've had one from Noah... believe you me.

[Dabbanoth]

I second that.

Say goodbye to your blood vessels.

[Vak]

I would have to say Nut shots from Either Xiao or Soth are the ones that send yah back home or to your tent.

Red Sword to the jibbles sucks.

[Thomas MacFinn]

Oh yeah, this conversation will convince people to be less timid.

[jacknife]

no worries for me. I have steel nuts
Tom, I don't like your new Icon.
Its even uglier than you.

[Thomas MacFinn]

Fighting was much more agressive today.

Ow.

Thomas
("be careful what you wish for", he says as he nurses a swollen jaw)

[jacknife]

Its even uglier than you.

Ow.

In all seriousness, I was joking

[okita]

This is my first post here so if I'm off base, let me know. I'm primarily an Amtgarder at this point, but I'm a part of the Johnson City Belegarth group starting up, so that may change.
Anyway, one of the groups I play with is just across from a highschool, and almost all of the members are below 16. They tend to start out pretty timid, but I've found that if you take them aside and practice with them gently, trying to just control the fight with no force while they really fight you, they'll get more confident quickly. They'll also learn more quickly too. Another plus is you can try out things you don't normally try during matches, and learn how to control the situation through more than your sword.
Now we've got a fighting company of kids fighting florentine who vets have a hard time bringing down without arrows.

[Thomas MacFinn]

Jacknife, I've changed my icon twice since you made your comment. I may change it a few more times before you even read this message. I could care less if my icon is ugly and am old enough to know I'm not personally going to get any prettier.

Don't worry about it. I didn't.

[hoplite]

I generally don't back out of a fight although I try to remain cautious if I'm facing a large shield or very aggressive fighter.

[Arrakis]

I was Florentine sparring with Izzy after our last (excellent!) Dur-D practice when, in one particular fight, he rocked me back on my heels and had me backing up. To quote myself "What is this? I'm the one who makes other people backpedal!"

It was very difficult (read: impossible) to regain the initiative. I lost that fight cleanly. Starting out backpedaling is a bad way to start.

[Thomas MacFinn]

As this thread reaches it's one month anniversary I have come to the conclusion that my initial premise may have been incorrect. I think far fewer people are inherently timid than I originally guessed. What I originally saw as timidity is related to the “here's a sword, lets fight” mentality. With a little talking and a few exercises showing what works and what doesn't, “timid” behavior disappears.

As an example, a week or so ago I went to a practice in Indiana and there was a lady there who was not exactly timid but was easily distracted by feints and other big showy moves designed to get her to react in a certain way. So one time when she approached, I stomped my foot loudly and obviously. I did it a couple more times in later bouts than asked her, “Do you know why I'm stomping my foot? It's to get you to stop your advance where I want you to. It lets me pick where we fight and the range we fight from.” Knowing why I did it, she soon ignored those silly foot stomps (especially when I did it far enough away that I had time to stop and grin at her for falling for it) and she also ignored a few other similar moves I threw her way.

On a similar vein, a little 3 man spear exercise I've been working on has done more to show effective ranges between allies than any amount of talking. After practicing it even only a single day, I have yet to see anyone who has done it leave an ally fighting solo by backing two steps farther away than they should be.

In short, people do what they think works. Showing them that a particular tactic doesn't work (and you often have to both say it and show them) eliminates the ineffective tactic. Caution is good. Timidity is just ineffective caution.

[Roland Demox]

You could always try an old football drill, We called them Kentucky's. Make a Box of sorts, almost like a bridge. State that you are not allowed to move outside the two lines, which should be big enough for maybe two people, and not allowed to move backwords lest he be called dead. Then just start sending people at him. After a couple rounds he'll man up. In some severe cases it may take him till second practice that he has the ability to fight man to man.

My personal opinion is he may not be confident of his ability to fight one on one. Just give him some re assurance

[Jeean]

Last year i had a huge timidity issue, and being mainly flourentine it kinda sucked! So i practiced some moves to put me right up against my opponent and showed these to some noobs, they're getting there but i think the whole aggression thing takes time
If you have some timid people make them call the practices have them show you their warface and make them yell that big "LAY ON!" as loud and barbaric as possible >.> fun to watch and it gets them in teh mood to beat ppl up
Anyway when you have Ikis on your field stompin ppl left n right timidity becomes a problem xD

[Thomas MacFinn]

I believe the first part of your post pretty much restated what I said several months ago in early January until we got to ...

Anyway when you have Ikis on your field stompin ppl left n right timidity becomes a problem xD

Has anyone actually told this person he might be scaring potential members away?

[Davit]

Nah, the trick is to be as scary as possible on the field, then sit down and talk to people afterwards. Ikis is like that, he's not an *. The seeing someone kick * on the field, and then getting hit, usually produces the "damnit, that guy killed me, now I want to do the same to him," reaction out of people, once you get that, they are hooked.

However as to the timid people, well it takes lots of encouragement, and the realization that IT'S JUST FOAM, you will be up in 2 minutes, so if you run in there and have fun it's worth every second. Also, watching someone get the **** kicked out of them and then getting back up for the next battle usually helps.

[Jeean]

yeah i learned a lot from Ikis even if he hits hard ^^; i learned all of what Mekoot was talking about even if he was intimidating and i think that he keeps things exciting and changing (something may bring him down one practice but they have to come up with something new the next)
Any new people that Ikis scares off usually just aren't interested in sword-fighting, because almost all of our new guys have said "AHHHHH!!! geez that hurts!" and then get back up and fight him again until they beat him (or land a shot xD)

On the case of timidity though Ikis will teach you to either "not do that again" or "next time i'll see it coming" and it gives them something to work at and an angle against other fighters; which, giving them a bit of an advantage helps them get up there and fight.

Intimidating or Hard-hitting fighters aren't * i find them pretty helpful if the fighter can deal with the pain xD (yes we've notified Ikis of the people he scares away

[Wysteria]

How do you get over a sorta gut-deep panic reaction when being charged? Due to a lot of bad relationships in the past, with men I have a fairly large personal-space and I get extremely anxious/panicky when that is entered or I'm approached aggressively. The couple times I've tried practice. even with takin an anti-anxiety med before hand, as soon as I get rushed most "sense" goes out of my head and the almost instinctual reaction to get out of range kicks it. I can fight chicks no issue, just not men.

And since a lot of vet fighters like to intimidate the newbies (not that I blame them, haha!) it takes all my willpower to just stand there, during which time I lose focus and end up getting the crap walloped out of me because I'm payin attention to not fleeing instead of defending myself. So the few times I've fought, I either run away or get slaughtered because I'm not paying attention to the other fighter's moves.

I don't "do" Belegarth anymore because it got too stressful - at the end of practice I'd be so spazzed and jittery I could barely stand it. I really hate that... I want to be more of a part of it than just "Denidil's wife" but that's kinda the way its going.

Thanks =)