"Punk/* Moves" (and how to aviod doing such)

[Kenneth]

If you have a problem with somebody's hit taking, maybe you should hit them harder or have a Marshall deal with it.

I have the suspicion that some people are not merely taking notes on what moves to avoid, but are actively expanding their repertoire of moves.

[Thomas MacFinn]

pommel strikes. I'm guilty of ...

This reminds me a bit of my "grazing the head" thread where an hour after I hit enter I thought about what I had typed and said to myself "You know, somebody is probibly going to take that wrong." I logged on the next day and said "yep, that didn't come out right."

[Mercer]

It's easy to say "have a marshall deal with it", but I've known several asshats who toe the line prefectly when one is around, and who suddenly develop anti-foam forcefields or rules amnesia when one isn't.

That said, I don't think I'd ever go so far as to use a pommel on someone; just too much chance of Bad things happening.

[Arrakis]

Hafting somebody when you could easily just have hit them directly with the adjacent striking surface (i.e., with flails).

Conversely, blocking the hafts of maces and axes with your arms to prevent the heads from hitting you and then * about the guy hafting you so much.

[Thomas MacFinn]

I think I just found the root cause of the punk move:

[Od1n]

:roll:

I don't even want to think about your training. hahaha. Good thing neither you or your trainee's show up at more Belegarth events I suppose.

[Olos]

Hafting somebody when you could easily just have hit them directly with the adjacent striking surface (i.e., with flails).

Conversely, blocking the hafts of maces and axes with your arms to prevent the heads from hitting you and then * about the guy hafting you so much.

Blocking the haft of the weapon (while kind of stupid on your part) against an axe or a mace would be a legitimate tactic I think, but yes, * about it afterward is stupid.

And I definitely agree, purposefully hafting people shouldn't happen.

[Kyrax]

...I use pommel hits as a LAST resort and usually as a last resort to those who OBVIOUSLY cheat.

You intentionally pommel people? I don't care what they did, you have no business teaching the rules or enforcing them on others if you choose to intentionally hit people with the pommel or haft of your weapon.

I had zero problem with your narrative of how you deal with problem individuals up to that point - if you are so frustrated at their inability to play by the rules, then make them SIT DOWN. Forcing a newbie to sit out a fight or two might have a positive effect. If they do it again, make the next "time out" longer, and if it happens a third time put them off the field for the day (or some similarly long time). Once they realize that there are rules and that this isn't a game you all just made up, but one where you have to obey the rules in order to get to play, maybe they'll wise up. Or not - in which case, make it clear that they're not welcome, period.

Losing your temper is not a way to teach others how to play this game safely. Intentionally hitting with non-striking surfaces is illegal, and should be grounds for your being pulled from the field. It is not a valid teaching method.

[Dacian]

absolutely.

If I see someone intentionally hitting another fighter with a pommel, and they've been in the game for any decent amount of time, they're off my field.

Intentionally pommeling someone just plain *, dude.

AND of course, a "punk/*" move.

[Nakamoto Amuro]

absolutely.

If I see someone intentionally hitting another fighter with a pommel, and they've been in the game for any decent amount of time, they're off my field.

Intentionally pommeling someone just plain *, dude.

AND of course, a "punk/*" move.

QFT

[Thorondor]

...I use pommel hits as a LAST resort and usually as a last resort to those who OBVIOUSLY cheat.

You intentionally pommel people? I don't care what they did, you have no business teaching the rules or enforcing them on others if you choose to intentionally hit people with the pommel or haft of your weapon.

I had zero problem with your narrative of how you deal with problem individuals up to that point - if you are so frustrated at their inability to play by the rules, then make them SIT DOWN. Forcing a newbie to sit out a fight or two might have a positive effect. If they do it again, make the next "time out" longer, and if it happens a third time put them off the field for the day (or some similarly long time). Once they realize that there are rules and that this isn't a game you all just made up, but one where you have to obey the rules in order to get to play, maybe they'll wise up. Or not - in which case, make it clear that they're not welcome, period.

Losing your temper is not a way to teach others how to play this game safely. Intentionally hitting with non-striking surfaces is illegal, and should be grounds for your being pulled from the field. It is not a valid teaching method.

Pommels are padded for incidental contact, not for beating someone with. That's another reason we don't allow pommel spikes...

I'd have to agree. If I saw someone that has been out for more than one time intentionally pommel another fighter, no matter what the specifics are, I'd pull them from the field for the day. They do it a second time, I'd kick them off the field and ask them to not come back. That's a safety hazard, plain and simple.

Future reference, if I ever see it done intentionally and I'm sure about it, you're off my field for the day, no questions asked. If I'm not marshaling at the time I would take it to the host realm's marshal and have them handle it.

[Alunsun]

Someone wrote about kicking shields into the face, I agree to a certain extent. It is my opinion that fighting with head resting on car door is a punk/* move in of itself. L2 fight imo.

[Thomas MacFinn]

There is an excellent sries of you tube videos on "How to fight polearm" that I just love with the notible exception of the spot near the end of the 3rd video when the instructor says. "In this situation I probibly would have tried to knock you into that table"

Even the best fighters can have less than steller moments.

[MagnusofDregoth]

Someone wrote about kicking shields into the face, I agree to a certain extent. It is my opinion that fighting with head resting on car door is a punk/* move in of itself. L2 fight imo.

I agree, it's sort of a * move to position yourself in such a way that it is unsafe for your opponent to fight normally. Like moving your head into someone's attack, then yelling at them for headshotting you. Not that I think this really happens all that often, mind you--people have accused me of doing this, when I most certainly was NOT trying to put my head in the way of someone's swing. The good thing about this particular kind of * move, though, is that it carries with it instant karma.

[Alunsun]

The good thing about this particular kind of * move, though, is that it carries with it instant karma.

lol QFT

[Reverend]

I think the one that cheeses me the most is when someone stabs your face/neck with a non-stabbing weapon to get you to open up your defense.

You know the strike isn't going to count for damage, but getting stabbed in the face and then kidney-shot while you're clutching your freshly broken nose. . . I put that in the * move category.

[Big King Jimmy]

There is an excellent sries of you tube videos on "How to fight polearm" that I just love with the notible exception of the spot near the end of the 3rd video when the instructor says. "In this situation I probibly would have tried to knock you into that table"

Even the best fighters can have less than steller moments.

I just wanted to highlight this and give a better source.

This is part of a string of videos produced by some of the best fighters in Amtgard. It's filmed during an even called Sword Knight Boot Camp (SKBC).

If you go to youtube and search for SKBC you will find a plethora of great instructional material.

[Enoch]

Apologies for the zombie post, I don't tend to hit up this part of the board much but still wanted to put my two cents in.
This past Okfest during team and bridge battles I speared a lot of people in the junk. If that happened to anyone reading this, I apologize for the nut-hurt, but please change your stance. I've encountered too many sword and board fighters that'll use an A-frame stance that protects most of the torso but forgets to cover or block their jiggly bits. In a team-based battle that leaves me with the decision to go for a disabling shot on an arm or leg or the kill shot in the junk. In a bridge battle, creating a turtle that can still lose another limb doesn't do my team much of a favor, and it sure as heck doesn't make an easier target for me. It's a * that I would rather not pull on people, so as a service to yourself and any polearm fighter that feels bad about it afterward, please, people, don't leave the shot open.

[Big King Jimmy]

One of my favorite lines from the SKBC videos paraphrased:

"Most fighters ill be able to guard their shoulder, or their junk. Once they figure out that you're swinging at both, they'll just let you have the shoulder.

[Mekoot Rowan]

The only thing I've really seen on a regular basis that is listed in this thread is the headshot-killshot combo. I know someone is going to get *, but I've heard it refered to often as the Numenor 1-2. Or as the Nan Belegorn liked to joke, the Bohdi 8-9-10.

Other than that it's pretty much as simple as not trying to hurt someone.

If someone decides your shots aren't hard enough then you need to hit them harder or pick up a weapon that stings more. I used to keep an all military foam hammer which sometimes got called brick on a stick or cheater beater. It's now a flail that is in the posession of Ehlossa. He tells me that noone has called his flail shots light since he started using it.

Don't accuse them of cheating, just show them what thick skin is going to make you resort to, a longer, harder and just plain meaner weapon.

[Arrakis]

Shield charging legged opponents.

Thomas got his leg busted, I sincerely feel mine was very nearly broken last Sunday by the same tactic.

There's no need to flying shield tackle someone on their knees, guys.

[Jeean]

I was hearing about this thread right after i almost pulled the punkest * move i could think of:
-Flourenteen on his knee, both swords about aligned with his shoulders
-I'm fully up and uninjured looking down at him, maybe 2 1/2 feet away
-This thought pops into my head to leap and put my knee into his shoulder (so he can't hit me) and shank him with a green in the kidney...

It probably would've worked >.> but i decided not to toss my nuts in his face and opted for an arm snipe I'm also learning to kick people without impacting them so if you wanna pull a punk move try sweeping the back of someone's knee and pushing their shield into them ^^

[Sleeper]

Another so called, punk * move, I've noticed (many will not agree with me on this) is where a legged opponent has an almost invincible advantage by using their dead leg as an "immortal" shield. I was watching the redtourny of Gates of Summer V on youtube and saw someone use this to great effect. When I'm legged and then hit in the same dead leg, I take it.

I mean, how can you have no leg there and still be able to block with it? Saw this in the rules skills developement thread but I was unable to post there.

[Mercer]

That's less a punk move, and more a "we sacrifice a little reality for more playability". Technically, if you took a solid cleave in the leg with your average two-handed weapon, the only fight you'd have going is the one to staunch the bleeding before you pass out and/or die. Since it would be a boring game if we based the rules on that, it reverts to a kind of "counting coup". Hey, at least it isn't a hit-points system...

[Arrakis]

And how much of a shield is below the hip to the knee on one side of a person's body, anyway? You've still got the whole other side and their back, even if they have a large shield, as well.

Other than that, you may have hit upon the intrinsic weakness of a system that forces people to take a knee when hit in the leg rather than just fight on hobbled or limping.

See this ARMA essay for more on the topic. They have a few others on similar topics, but this is the most relevant, I think.

[Sleeper]

Boring? I fail to see, but that might just be my own idiot opinion. I remember legging this guy during EQ last year, using a roundshield, his only visible body parts were his 'dead' leg and his head and he was able to punch block my redshots, I ended up just leaving him there.

[Mercer]

It would be boring to have leg shots be as fatal as they would realisticly be, because the game would become pure leg hunting.

[Sleeper]

Good footwork, coping with it, alot of things would negate that, I know this cause legs are usually the first place I attack and they've learned to combat this.

[Mekoot Rowan]

Sleeper, what you seem to be saying is that you want one limb to be death, which I think would take alot of the fun out of the game.

I agree with Mercer that making legs more vulnerable would lead to a greater about of leg hunting than already occurs.

If you're worried about a legged person then you should start practicing the 'gimp and go' strategy. Come back to finish off the wounded after the rest of their team is dead.


Getting back to what this thread is all about...

I've seen some glaivemen pull a very interesting nutshot. While retreating they'll thrust between an oppnents legs then lever up when he straddles the glaive. I suppose that if it hits hard enough with the blade of the glaive it's technically a killing blow, but it's just such a * move.

[Thomas MacFinn]

Shield charging legged opponents.

Thomas got his leg busted, I sincerely feel mine was very nearly broken last Sunday by the same tactic.

There's no need to flying shield tackle someone on their knees, guys.

In my case, the guy started a long run on my blind side and I dropped to my knees from a leg shot just before he connected. Pure accident.

... It happened March 3rd and I'll still be on crutches into May, however. I really wish he had veered aside to go for the back attack instead of landing on me when I dropped.

[Arrakis]

Ahh... I got slide-tackled from the front from about a 15 foot buildup and it flipped me back enough that I rolled over my own shin with my other leg and all of our weight.

I got the wrap shot against him, anyway.

[Sleeper]

Try body bashing Koom or Bam when you weigh a mere 180lbs! Just doesn't work out the way it does on the videogames.

[Thorondor]

Try body bashing Koom or Bam when you weigh a mere 180lbs! Just doesn't work out the way it does on the videogames.

I found that out against Angmarth and Daemarth...of course I'm only 160ish...

[Aiden]

Yeah, Koom's a rock.

I rushed to close in against him at Ides I, but slipped in a muddy patch and ended up skidding into him and his uplifted knee. I'm not sure if I ever have hit the ground so hard in fighting before/since then. Great moment.

As for punk shots, I've had spearmen stab me in the face and then keep feinting for my face after that. I donn't really appreciate that.

[varadin]

As for punk shots, I've had spearmen stab me in the face and then keep feinting for my face after that. I donn't really appreciate that.

ran into a spear unit who had the belief of "aim high" I proceded to get smacked in the head with the incedental padding of a spear.

How can it be a */punk move thread without the good old flail to the bottom of the shield and the head hitting you right in the man-berrys.

[Sir Killian]

stabbing with non stabbing weapons... i hate that ****...

the whole feint for the face to make em flinch is pretty punk *

Bo pinning foot is punk... i do it but admittedly its punk * move..

my most favorite is yelling look out behind you and then gacking the fool when they turn....

the khanda thump is a sweet punk * move... its where you brutalize a opponents dead leg until they start blocking the shots and leave things like shoulders open... pshh newbs

[maximilian]

Side-swinging a spear like it was a glaive, especially against an opponent engaged with someone else (not looking at you) and calling "DOUBLE GREEN!"

[Sleeper]

the khanda thump is a sweet punk * move... its where you brutalize a opponents dead leg until they start blocking the shots and leave things like shoulders open... pshh newbs

Interesting...

[Mercer]

Side-swinging a spear like it was a glaive, especially against an opponent engaged with someone else (not looking at you) and calling "DOUBLE GREEN!"

That's just cheating.

[Oisin]

Side-swinging a spear like it was a glaive, especially against an opponent engaged with someone else (not looking at you) and calling "DOUBLE GREEN!"

That's just cheating.

QFT, but it's still a move only pulled by people who are really dumb or really * . . . aka, a punk/* move!

[savetuba]

yet side swinging a spear into the edge of a shield is a valid tactic to open the shield up for a chest stab.

[Thomas MacFinn]

yet side swinging a spear into the edge of a shield is a valid tactic to open the shield up for a chest stab.

First spear I make is going to have a bit of extra haft padding behind the head for just that reason. I'm of the opinion that moving shields around for your allies is a primary use of the long spear right up there with killing people yourself.

[Mekoot Rowan]

That may be true, but I'd still call you a punk when you did it to me.

What you have to note about almost all of these tactics is that they're legal, but still a *.

[Arrakis]

I would laugh at you if you called me a punk for pool cuing your shield just to make you block it while my friends throw blue shots at you. That's my favorite part of support weapon fighting!

[Oisin]

I wouldn't, though. I think that's perfectly valid, and when I'm using a spear, I do it all the time. There's a big difference between that and side-swinging the spear.

[Mekoot Rowan]

What Oisin said. Pool-cuing is fine, side-swinging is a * move that might get you kicked off the field.

[Soo Ma Tai]

I have seen a lot of people talking about doing things that cause real pain to their opponent here, such as pommeling, or intentionally striking to the weapon hand, or joints. ANY time that you hit someone with the intent to hurt them, you are breaking the rules of the game. I have heard people say, if you hit them in the hand hard enough it hurts and they are going to drop their weapon, and that is a punk * move.

Slightly off topic, but the dead leg thing....just push them over a bit, so that neither knee is on the ground, then either leg counts. Dead leg only counts if the dead knee is on the ground and the other knee is not.[/img]

[Thomas MacFinn]

I think a strike to the hand is a great way to deflect an incoming one-handed strike, but then I also recommend everyone use handguards, wear protective gloves or at least something like these.

http://www.geocities.com/swash010/Redbe ... guard4.jpg


http://www.geocities.com/swash010/Saber1.jpg


The point is to deflect the attack a few inches to the side with a padded weapon, not crank up the force enough to damage anybody.

[savetuba]

From the amassed posts one could conclude that:

Punk/* Move: a move, strike, or tactic designed to give an advantage against one's opponent by causing pain or discomfort.

[Jeean]

Thaw Brawl last weekend a guy legged me, and as i was dropping tossed himself knee first at me and caught me right in the spleen i hit him 3 times while he was diving at me and he walked away

Also at practice i hit Ikis in the groin with my club then greened him with my dagger in the back as he bent over >.> the groin was unintentional though ^^;