Viking Sword Techniques

[Sir Par]

I had one of my professors pass this link along to me. There is some fairly solid stuff here that can translate into Bele.


http://www.hurstwic.org/history/article ... hnique.htm

[Thomas MacFinn]

I was surprised the article advocated an "open" shield (edge toward the opponent) for a round punch shield. I commonly fight with an open strap shield, but most people I have seen who fight with punch shields fight with it in a very closed position (edge perpendicular to the opponent).

[sugona]

hmm I'll have to give it a read

[Mekoot Rowan]

It's funny, because I'm fairly sure I've seen all of those exchanges happen on our fields. They just happen really really fast.

[MagnusofDregoth]

Presumably, the vikings did them very fast as well, I imagine they would have gotten this stuff ingrained at a fairly early age.

[Arrakis]

Thomas, do you fight open strap vs. Florentiners or just other sword'n'boarders?

I would have thought you'd be more of an Oldcastle kind of guy when s&b-ing.

What do you see as the advantages of fighting open as opposed to tabled (tilted out at the bottom so as to preclude leg strikes) closed?

[Soo Ma Tai]

Though it may have been an actual combat technique, in our game, if your shield is opened up like that, I'ma gonna kill you. I try to get people to open their shield like that. I have specific techniques designed to make that happen. Fighing open may have been good for real, but with our lightweight weapons I can crank my sword around and get you fairly easily in that position.

[Arrakis]

Soo, good sword blocks can keep that open side sealed tight and the open style gives you more shield reach. I normally prefer closed and tabled, but open has some advantages if you get good at it.

[bo1]

when i use my strap i try to maintain a 45* relying on my sword block to help.

remember that heavy weapons and heavy shields don't have any place in our game, so the techniques we use will be totally different. as well as we are scoring hits not hurting people. a high cross with a real steel sword will have a neglible effect in normal cloths or even armor.

[Sleeper]

I beg to differ, I can not remember this guy's name but he had a Riot shield for a shieldcore last EQ, the thing wieghed a ton. As a result, even with my big, heavy "boat oar" redsword, I couldn't move the shield worth anything, he bowled over me faster than most shieldmen.

[Thomas MacFinn]

Thomas, do you fight open strap vs. Florentiners or just other sword'n'boarders?

Very few florentine fighters have a practiced left hand, so for the most part, yes. When I use a shield, it is a strap shield in a wide open position. You can fight open shield against a lefty, but you have to adjust your angles.

I believe any weapon or weapon style has advantages and disadvantages and don't personally believe any is "better" than any other. Open shield is simply what I was taught exclusively for years and I know its advantages and drawbacks better than closed shield.

I would have thought you'd be more of an Oldcastle kind of guy when s&b-ing.

Check out Gyrth Oldcastle's book Fundamentals of Oldcastle Sword and Shield. He advocates a wide open shield.

What do you see as the advantages of fighting open as opposed to tabled (tilted out at the bottom so as to preclude leg strikes) closed?

Grab a stick as tall as your shield and let it dangle from your left hand. Swing your sword around it. Almost any swing you can make around that stick you can make around an open shield. If you do it right, you and your friends can fight with 3 foot long swords with only 12-18" between you.

I won't go into the tricks you can do with an open shield against a closed shield right now other than to say they exist.

Disadvantages of an open shield:
1) Angles - Your shield should be pointed toward your opponent's left shoulder (farther over if he is a lefty). If he moves to your right, most of the time you can move your back foot to rotate. You can generally rotate faster than he can run. Stand still and you die.
2) Keep your swordside shoulder back - Nuff said. Turn your body square while leaving your shield open and people will hit you there.
Edit: If he is used to a closed shield, after he kills you, he will usually blame your open shield rather than your incorrect body position.
3) Move your shield to keep it stationary when you swing. - You can take really long swings if your shield doesn't rotate back behind you when you do it. By and large, you should move your left arm in such a way that your shield stays mostly stationary while your body moves all over the place behind it.

[Thomas MacFinn]

I found a copy of Gyth's book online at http://scamelee.freeservers.com/oldcastle_1.html It is poorly linked between chapters, but if you keep going back to the table of contents, you can read the whole thing.

[Arrakis]

Ahh, right. I'd only read the bits on swordwork, mostly. I didn't really get that the shieldwork was so open.

Cool. More reading to do!

[Thomas MacFinn]

Though it may have been an actual combat technique, in our game, if your shield is opened up like that, I'ma gonna kill you. I try to get people to open their shield like that. I have specific techniques designed to make that happen. Fighing open may have been good for real, but with our lightweight weapons I can crank my sword around and get you fairly easily in that position.

While I don't agree that an open shield is an inherantly bad thing, I do agree that any time you can get somebody's shield to go where you want it to instead of where the guy holding it wants it to that you have a big advantage.

[tvetree]

Though it may have been an actual combat technique, in our game, if your shield is opened up like that, I'ma gonna kill you. I try to get people to open their shield like that. I have specific techniques designed to make that happen. Fighing open may have been good for real, but with our lightweight weapons I can crank my sword around and get you fairly easily in that position.

Open and tabled both have benefits.A tabled shield will protect more area without it being moved.An open shield will cover A larger area with less movement than a tabled shield but you have to move it(or you) to block almost everything.Static defence VS Active Defence .
I'll try and table an open shield ,and open a tabled one.
To echo Thomas shoulder back is the ONLY way to do open shield with out being abused.Then again if your not in a SheildWall it's a good ideal no matter what weapon/shield stlye you are using.