Red close combat

[Locknest23]

Ive read the other red topics but, im kinda still havin trouble fighting a punch and flail guy. I can do the circle back peddeling manuver however cant do it in a close up fight with boundries( like arena )

so any ideas?
thanks

[Olos]

I'm no red expert by any means, but in my experience, given equal skill levels, sword and shield has an advantage over red in a 1v1, especially in an enclosed area, and especially with a flail. Being that you are using a red, armor would probably be more beneficial to you than to your friend, but beyond that, like I said, I'm no red expert, so I'll leave it to someone else to try the tactics, I'll only point out holes when they are gaping

[Kyrian]

You could work on the single-handed swing maneuver. Basically, you let one hand off the grip and let the handle of the sword slide down until you can grasp the pommel. Swing at the fighter's leg as you step out of his range. As long as he doesn't have armor, you stand a good chance of catching one of his legs as you move out of the way.

[okita]

Any weapon that allows you to widen your hands gives you more leverage. Use it to move that shield, put it in the way of shots, cover his flail so he can't start a solid shot, * around with his balance, threaten the sword arm. The main thing at that range is to block before his shots manage to gain any momentum. After enough of that he's likely to try to retake the advantage by keeping the shield further away from his body to keep a little distance and get enough room to swing. If he does that, it'll be easy to move the shield and enter for a kill.

[Locknest23]

The leg thing works well on the smaller shield but the punch covers his legs and is really really light. So i did the block before he get momentum thing and it worked well. But im wondering, am i allowed to grap the haft of his flail, or grap his shield and pry it away, or even kick the shield it out of his hand?
thanks agian

[Big King Jimmy]

yes, yes, and yes.

Welcome to full force combat.

[Arrakis]

A shield kick low can open a shoulder shot for you; a full weapon block may allow you to throw your shoulder into his shield.

Personally, I'd start a fake at his shield side, like he doubtless expects, then counterstrike his flail arm as he starts his shot. That way, you stop his attack, take his arm, and put him on the defensive all at once, with one strike.

Read some of the longsword stuff on theARMA.org or anything by one of the old German masters. There were links around here somewhere...

Here we go! http://www.thearma.org/essays.htm

The stuff on parrying is especially useful.

[Thomas MacFinn]

In my opinion, the hardest shot to block with a red sword is a wrap shot. Coincidentally, this is one of the easiest shots to throw with a flail. If there is any one guaranteed way to block them, it is to take his arm before he throws the shot. If you can do that, you might as well leg him (which you can do from farther away) or kill him (which trumps any other maneuver). I've blocked flails with a red weapon, but not easily and not 100% of the time.

The absolute worst thing you can do is stand still. Learn to both block and swing while your feet are moving. Likewise, once you start trading blows, your sword shouldn't stop moving either. If you just swung at him, move your sword to block the blow you expect him to throw. This is easier with people you fight against regularly than strangers. If you end up blocking a blow he never throws, fine - you are still alive.

If I throw a leg shot at Dagganoth and he blocks it instead of backing away and then steps a whole lot closer with his sword arm leg, I know a wrap shot is coming, probibly on the opposite side of my leg shot so I have to move my blade across my entire body to block it. My sword had better be moving in that direction long before he actually swings his arm.

Here is one of those videos that you have to watch over and over to really understand. They don't explain the maneuvers and don't do any maneuver twice, going quickly from basic strikes to more advanced stuff.

Longsword-Techniques by Zornhau, Offenbach/Germany

None of these maneuvers are specific to fighting against weapon and shield but all are good to have in your bag of tricks.

[MagnusofDregoth]

So, I'll echo some of the above comments. The leg attack is what you need to develop. When fighting sword & shield against another shieldman, taking the legs doesn't make your opponent more vulnerable, per se. However, since you have a red sword, you gain a HUGE advantage, because your opponent, when gimped, cannot close distance with you, and you can maximize your range advantage.

Also, you need to learn how to change stance and grip. You can switch from lefty to righty very easily and very quickly, without losing your power or precision (since your on-hand is still on the weapon in both cases). You start with a right-handed attack (or left-handed, if your opponent is left-handed) against the shield, then step to the left and switch hands to make an attack against the body, which will probably be exposed as your opponent closes to swing with his flail.

Ultimately, though, there's only so much you can do in a one-on-one; I think it's not until you have 4 people fighting that a red weapon comes into its own as a support weapon. But there's no harm in trying!

[Locknest23]

Sweet thank you guys for the help!
Since i found out how to get those shots better and been useing
parrying alot more, i win everytime now. The shield kicks are my fav,
since the shield is light i kick the edge quick and then chop . Now
i just need to age 2 years and fight at a event

Also once my new axe comes in, hopefully it will be similar to the sword
and will be more awesome because its a axe! muhaha

[William MacGregor]

Try adding a strap-on buckler to your main arm (right if you’re a righty, left if lefty) nothing big but a light 12-16 inch diameter buckler will add a little bit of defense to a primarily offensive fighting style. Oh and make sure will not interfere with the movement of your wrist.

Also like said before once you start don't stop tell either you or the other fighter is dead. one last thing; I find that people expect a "red fighter" to back peddle and go for the legs, though a very useful and essential move, you can often surprise your opponent by closing the distance when they attack and either shoulder check then on there shield or spin/slide by them on there shield side and take advantage of there now open back.

Best idea is to have more moves to use then they have to counter them.

[deflagratio]

If your really want to freak some people out start carrying a back up dagger you can thrust with. Make sure it will come out quickly but won't fall out. Wear it on your belt in the back. This is very important as wearing it any other place will allow someone to grab it easily. Now if you get into a bind drop your weapon and grapple the guy with one hand. at the same time quickly reach behind, draw the dagger, and stab that guy in the kidneys. Better for one on one I will admit.

Another technique against people closing it to use a hanging guard (put your hands level with your ear with the sword parallel to the ground. Now drop the tip so it would rest on your lower arm) when someone attacks. After you block triangle step out and bring the sword around and swing. Works best when stepping past.

[Soo Ma Tai]

This move is somewhat difficult to do and takes some practice, but, here you go.

First note that this is a defensive manouver...and involves several variables to be in play at the same time, but you can practice this and it does work.

When the flail user "closes the gap" bringing himself into attack range, strike low to the legs and stand your ground. Bring your pommel end up and block his flail shot with your red weapon handle, you are wanting to connect about halfway along his flail haft. Immediatly grab the flail haft where it is past your handle and lever the flail around your handle peeling out of your opponents hand. Now you have a red and a flail and all he's got is a shield

I know this description is very hard to follow, and I would be happy to show the manouver in person. You have to practice it on both sides, for the straight shoulder/wrap shot and for the high cross shot. Remember the flail will come out of the hand easier if you break it out through the fingers.

[Dacian]

and i tell ya what...It's hilarious to watch that done right. hehe.

[Ryu]

something that will help your close quarter fighting is to shorten your blade(not the total length), if it breaks the specs use curtesy padding. with a red that is more like a glave at six feet you can fight heavy handed red swings up to 3 feet away and make it out alive

[MagnusofDregoth]

Also, a stabbing tip will be a big, BIG help. I made one that passed every day at Rag this year, and I killed tons of people in single combat with it. Combine stabbing with good footwork, and the shield will become much less of a problem.

[Oratelb]

really nub question.. whats a warp shot? ._.

[MagnusofDregoth]

It's a typo.

The term is "wrap shot," and this is how it works:



The description comes at about 2:37 in the video. But you should watch all of them, they'll be very useful.

Also, one technique I am currently working on for use against a shield-fighter involves using the "* Cross" guard, the one on the right in this picture:



You use your pommel to yank aside the shield, from the upper-left corner (your view) of a right-handed opponent. Then, you immediately deliver a killing thrust with your stabbing tip, right to the sternum. The left-handed half-sword grip makes this much faster and more precise than it would be otherwise, and since you have two hands on the weapon, this will kill an armored opponent as well. You should be wearing armor, too, if you want this to work well, because it is likely, especially if your opponent has a flail, that you will get hit once. Of course, your opponent may be too startled by this technique to react quickly, in which case, good for you!

[Arrakis]

Magnus, I love that type of thing against another Redsword fighter; throw the halfsword block, bind their blade out to your right side, rotating your tip in, two-handed thrust.

[Oratelb]

Nice, thanks Magnus

[MagnusofDregoth]

You're welcome!

[merc4hire]

If you're fast you can go for the legs. It's harder to defend with the sheild and usually they don't expect it.

But, you have to be fast and zone out otherwise you're going to get hit.

[Soo Ma Tai]

On a side note,

I use pommel trapping and shield ripping with the pommel end of the sword, and I will tell you to check you pommel a lot, cause you will need to repair them a lot more if you use these tactics.

[Ralimar]

Dear Magnus,

I notice that you teach the masses how to hold a sword in your video, but then hold your sword differently while demonstrating most techniques!

Am I to be led to believe that you are withholding secrets from us newbs?! ?!



Sincerely,

Mr. Ralimar

[Sleeper]

Watch as I die a lame death. But you can see a fundamental move when it comes to redswords. The two handed sword is something you can focus all your mind into, but, it splits your fighter effectiveness in half. Unlike sword and board or flourentine, you can not block and attack at the same time. One way to combat this you can see in the vid below.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uoMsU3qhk9k



Apparently I should have won the lil skirmish, those filming thought otherwise.

[Big King Jimmy]

Watch as I die a lame death. But you can see a fundamental move when it comes to redswords. The two handed sword is something you can focus all your mind into, but, it splits your fighter effectiveness in half. Unlike sword and board or flourentine, you can not block and attack at the same time. One way to combat this you can see in the vid below.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uoMsU3qhk9k



Apparently I should have won the lil skirmish, those filming thought otherwise.

dieing?

[MagnusofDregoth]

Dear Magnus,

I notice that you teach the masses how to hold a sword in your video, but then hold your sword differently while demonstrating most techniques!

Am I to be led to believe that you are withholding secrets from us newbs?! ?!



Sincerely,

Mr. Ralimar

lolz UR not n00b!!!1

I think I just did a bad job of describing how I hold the sword. But the way I demonstrate is more or less the way I do it, though I do tend to shift my grip (and my stance) frequently during a fight; this is the sort of thing I plan to include in my future videos.

[Ralimar]

Unlike sword and board or flourentine, you can not block and attack at the same time.

Lies!!!!

[Sleeper]

tell me how a single redsword is able to block a strike and still be able to counter attack, both at the same time.

[Vokor]

tell me how a single redsword is able to block a strike and still be able to counter attack, both at the same time.

First I say this to sleeper with love. **** you man, you have block my shot and hit me with the same swing!

now back to learning how to fight wiht a red.

PS sleeper + red + tanked out = you die

[varadin]

tell me how a single redsword is able to block a strike and still be able to counter attack, both at the same time.

Modi up in pent does a move with a blue and even a red. Where he blocks the shot and literally using your own hit to rotate the sword around. Id call it a block and a strike in one move.

[Soo Ma Tai]

I use that skill all the time, I call it a reactive defense, hit one end and the other reaches around and slaps you. It's not a single move though, but a 1-2 combo, where as what we are looking for is a 1 move. One way this can be done is by throwing a low shot to the leg and using the upper part/handle of the red to block at the same time. Trust me, it's not overly hard to do, just takes some timing and use of proper defensive angles.

[Djemps]

tell me how a single redsword is able to block a strike and still be able to counter attack, both at the same time.

Greetings everyone. I just created a personal account so I could reply to Sleeper's comment here...

I would definetly suggest that any Red Sword fighter take the time to learn about the five 'Master Strikes' of the Medieval German Longsword Tradition.

These are specialized counter attacks that are meant to shut down a particular line of attack from your opponent while simultaneously delivering a killing strike in the process.

[Ralimar]

I would definetly suggest that any Red Sword fighter take the time to learn about the five 'Master Strikes' of the Medieval German Longsword Tradition.

These are specialized counter attacks that are meant to shut down a particular line of attack from your opponent while simultaneously delivering a killing strike in the process.

Yup, that's exactly it. It's a standard concept in both European and Japanese sword traditions. Why block and then swing to counterattack when you can do both with one precise movement? You can also do essentially the same thing in our sport fighting with just a one-handed sword. Throw a shot that delivers a blow simultaneously with a punch block.

[Arrakis]

Amen, guys. Of course, a lot of those shots require modification for non-stabbing reds... but they're still a good introduction to the counterstrike. I abuse counterstriking for arm-hunting shots, esp Red v. shield.

[MagnusofDregoth]

And that's why everyone should make red swords with stabbing tips!

Sleeper, I bet you could get literally twice as many kills if you had a stabbing tip on your sword. No kidding. And you're already pretty good, from what I've seen of your fighting.

[Dabbanoth]

I challenge you to make a sword that is the size sleeper prefers that has a stabbing tip he wont demolish immediately.

[Arrakis]

I challenge you to make a sword that is the size sleeper prefers that has a stabbing tip he wont demolish immediately.

QFT. Not a trivial task.

[MagnusofDregoth]

Well, my 5'4" sword isn't small, but I realise it's not quite the same size as Sleeper's. Nonetheless, if you use good materials, you should be able to make a pretty durable stabbing tip.

[Sleeper]

such a sword would be beautiful to make. To have a stabby tip would indefinately improve my odds in killing but, it would shear off quite fast. even lil redswords. stabby tips can throw the balancing of a sword off quite easily. but imagine it, a minimal weight redsword as long as six feet. the ultimate weapon!!

and as far as striking and blocking redswords at the sametime, I'd have to see it to believe it. sure, you can throw a strike that blocks an attack, but not the way two swords or a shield and sword can.

[Hatchet]

sure, you can throw a strike that blocks an attack, but not the way two swords or a shield and sword can.

True.

Emphasis on bold

[To'Gur]

implement shield kicks, if he is using a punch, then they can be rather effective.

[Titan G]

also dependoing on ur speed size and level of expierence, spins with a light weight red do wonders, watch xiaoxiao or sir soth fight some red to pick up the best tips i can think of.

[Sleeper]

(IMHO) The best edition to a redsword, no matter the size, is a crossguard. The larger (or wider) it is, the more things you will block, it can even block the killer flail wrap shot if done right. You don't have to change your block either, the crossguard will make itself useful on its own. The only bad thing is that the larger the crossguard is, the harder the weapon is to use. Many times I have stabbed myself with the crossguards ends, the flimsy ones I had on my reds this past weekend ended up pushing my helm up over my eyes so you gotta be careful.

[Forkbeard]

I use a buckler with my red, first of all, and I'm left handed.
.
When I have to fight a shield/flail guy in a ring, here's what I do.I hit their shield hard and fast on the sword arm side, high up, above the corner if I can. Then I bring my sword up DIRECTLY horizontal to block thier shot. If they have a flail. hold your sword out kinda wide from your body(about 15 inches) to counter the wrap. Then faster than you can think, hit the sheild again about halfway down the sword arm side. It should now be broken. Ride the bounce off their sheild into another horizontal block and go imediatly into another hard hit at about kidney level. If they drop thier shield from the first two shot, thier dead and your nialing thier kidney. If not, rinse and repeat.