Sword n Board V.S. Reds

[Zazie]

I'm a fairly new fighter (been at it for about six collective months) and I'm doing fairly well enough by my own standards, I fight with sword 'n' board and I find myself consistently troubled when fighting Red wielders. Any advice?

[Spike]

Run in on em so hard that they don't have a chance to pull off that second swing.

[Zazie]

I always try to, and it goes one of two ways, either I bash 'em and get a hit, or they swing fast enough and the red swing comes at me, the latter is where I get the trouble. I'm a small guy, and I can move faster than most of the people at my practices, but I'm at a loss as to how best to react to a red swing coming at me.

[Arrakis]

Don't give it a chance to start coming in at you. When you approach them, before you get in their range for their first shot, charge them. They'll put one shot on your shield, you'll pwn them, end of story.

Unless they're really skilled, in which case they'll fake the shieldside shot and throw an arm-hunter/leg-hunter. But that's rare.

[Dane]

Experience will teach you when the red user is actually committing to a shot. When you can sense that the shot is legit, close the distance as quickly as possible. Throw repeated shots to the arm and hip.

Watch the opponent's sword as you move in; this will enable you to more effectively react to a feint. Make the block with your shield and swing away. Fast feet and a fast shield will usually give you the victory against a red user, and you'll usually only take one solid, shield-breaking hit to your shield on the way.

Soth's the only red user I've encountered that got off the shots necessary to bust my shield in the short instant where I come from outside of fighting range to the tie-up (and he's exceptional), but even then, if you're raining the shots in, you should earn the kill despite the loss of your shield.

[Thomas MacFinn]

If the red sword fighters in your area are skilled, one of the best things you can do is ask them to teach you red sword. Not just sparring red against red, but asking questions like "what do you do when people try to close in on you" while holding a red sword in your own hands.

After only a few lessons (if the person teaching you is interested in teaching instead of just beating on you), you should get a feel for what a red sword can and cannot do.

I can start thowing out my biases here (like my belief that a 4 ft red sword is both faster and has less range than a 3 ft blue sword in the hands of a shieldman) but rather than fill your head with minor details, pick up a red sword and learn for yourself how to both block and attack with a red sword at the same time (almost impossible), why newbies tend to start combinations against red swords by attacking the sword instead of the guy holding it (and why that doesn't work). You may not become a great red sword fighter, but you will gain a real appreciation for what is easy and what is hard and will probibly get some great ideas on how to kill the guy who next picks one up.

[Zazie]

I've been digesting all that has been shared here, and I think I've identified an underlying problem in myself specifically; I hesitate. I always run up to a red user and I wait for an opportune moment rather than just hit them. How might I speed the process of correcting this?


Obviously I'm gonna keep fighting reds as often as possible but beyond that, in general, is there a good method for correcting hesitation?

[Big King Jimmy]

Time. I don't know you specifically, but I know a lot of your group has not been fighting that long. There's no drill, that I know of. It's just something you have to get used to.

[Thomas MacFinn]

Just remind yourself that he can't block while swinging, but you can.

If he starts to wind up to swing at any obvious location (like the center of your shield), he cannot block until after that blow connects. Don't block then attack - he can do that faster than you can. Throw up your shield against the blow you know is coming and kill him while - or even before - his blow lands on your shield.

That is the real reason red sword fighters run back so much - they get in positions where they cannot block and backing out of range is the only defense they have.

[Arrakis]

Get a stabbing tip. A single-point attack on a red-wielder is often their doom anyway, but when you're charging and they throw a shot, then jerk their sword to one side to block the side shot, it's sooo easy to just stab 'em in the chest.

Ask Sleeper!

[Keltheril]

I've noticed arm-hunting reds doesn't work too badly either. Set yourself up so that when they pound into your shield you can snap out and get one of their arms. Then they have an awkwardly large sword being used in one hand that can't break shields. You have to be quick or they may block the shot with the sword (finesse reds do it more often). Still doesn't beat the charge and beatdown, but it's nice in line fighting.

[bo1]

when fighting a red it is really all about initiative. if you have it you win, if they have it they win. the styles clash so wonderfully, most people just charge and an experience red user will circle out, making your life hell in the process. also reds lack defence, so try to keep them distracted with multiple opponents. that is a reds greatest liability is mutiple people trying to hit them, it is only one weapon it can only do so much.

[Brennon EH]

Killing heavy/range weapons is all about footwork. You need to be able to understand and manage their range, and then close distance swiftly when the time is right. Try standing at their maximum range and stutter-stepping just into their 'sweet spot' range. Once they throw quickly shift back out and rush in as they swing or stab past. Those blades tend to have a long recoil time, and that's to your great advantage. As you're stepping in you want to push towards their weapon, not around around it. Your goal is to keep control of their weapon with your sword or shield on the shaft of their weapon and utilize continuos pressure against it. This works because people are mentally conditioned to resist an opponents movement rather than continue in the direction of force. This means they will essentially focus on pushing on your sword rather than trying to do anything useful (like hit you). Once you get up on them life should be simple. The important thing to get down is how to control them through the manipulation of their range.

[Mekoot Rowan]

Get a partner or two or three. Rush the red from at least two angles seperate by not more than 130 degrees. Rinse, repeat.

[Sleeper]

Get a stabbing tip. A single-point attack on a red-wielder is often their doom anyway, but when you're charging and they throw a shot, then jerk their sword to one side to block the side shot, it's sooo easy to just stab 'em in the chest.

Ask Sleeper!

Very true. The only way to defeat a redsworder is by charging. Gavin will actually push my red around with his shield, opening my blocks to attack. But I gotta plan to combat both of ya. HAHA!

[MagnusofDregoth]

I have found recently that an 'in & out' move (or 'burger') is very effective against red swords. Essentially, you start by standing just outside of the red-wielder's range--your opponent will not close with you, because that means death. Then, you quickly move in and present your shield as a target, but just when your opponent starts swinging, use your back leg to quickly jump out of range. When your opponent reachers the bottom of the swing, move in again quickly; your opponent will not be able to generate enough force with the sword to damage your shield, and you can press it in to limit the available attacks. Just go for whichever target is best; I would recommend a wrap to the back or an arm.

[Sleeper]

The helicopter swing can combat this tactic quite well. Alot of people pull this on me almost every practice.

[Brennon EH]

I put together a 15 minute video on different types of closing, including closing for sword and board against large swords. It is still uploading right now, but should finish and be available within a couple of hours.

It's the videos titled 'Closing Part 1-3'. The great sword stuff is in the last section of the first part.

http://www.youtube.com/Brennoneh

[Bortas]

More good info... just a comment though: the brightly colored sword you used in the SKBC videos in another thread looked silly, but it stood out well on video, making it more useful training wise. The dark sword(s) you are using in this one completely blend into the background/garb, making it more difficult to spot exactly what you are doing.

-bort

[Brennon EH]

Good point, thanks.

I'm thinking I need some light-colored sword covers and garb for filming. Maybe yellow and white, or something.

[Dacian]

When I fight Red Fighters, I try to always use their confidence to break my shield as their downfall.

Ever watch newbies go out and hold their shield 600 ft. away from their body? Well, I've noticed Red fighters love that. Many see it as an oppurtunity to completely knock the shield out of your hands because you have little control when it's far from your body. I've seen plenty of times they exagerate their swing to knock it from you.

All you do is hold your shield far from you. When they swing, bring your shield in close to your body and start the charge. This way you still have two shots on your shield left and you've already started the charge. Even if they back swing on you, it's only one hit...they should be dead by then.

[Hatchet]

When I fight Red Fighters, I try to always use their confidence to break my shield as their downfall.

We [or at least I] don't have confidence in the ability to be able to break your shield in one fell swoop. Limb hunting is safer,easier, and no one expects the guy with the red sword to be looking at anything that isn't their shield.

Otherwise the advice is good don't let the first swing hit you and run for all your worth at the guy.[/i]

[Nakamoto Amuro]

We [or at least I] don't have confidence in the ability to be able to break your shield in one fell swoop. Limb hunting is safer,easier, and no one expects the guy with the red sword to be looking at anything that isn't their shield.

Otherwise the advice is good don't let the first swing hit you and run for all your worth at the guy.[/i]

I concur. A good red-wielder won't just be looking out for shields to crush. It's great that we have that ability but our main advantage is range and leverage, so never assume that a redder will go straight for it. Gain plenty of experience, my friend. I've held off and lorded over 2 sword-and-boarders at a time with a single red on a few occasions, but mostly because experience was on my side and not on theirs. Not only were they fairly new, but they were too afraid to press their clear advantage. They second guessed a lot and faltered when they should have advanced and both ended up legged and left behind.

[Hatchet]

main advantage is range and leverage

Secondary advantage is psychological intimidation against newer people and people without shields.

As he said Hesitation = Death so don't do it.

[Bortas]

Good point, thanks.

I'm thinking I need some light-colored sword covers and garb for filming. Maybe yellow and white, or something.

/veto

Dark garb, light weapons, or dark weapons light garb, but not both, and preferably the first!

-bort