I figured half would think I'm retarded and half would see how it could be usefull. Guess i was kinda right, but o well some will find it stupid and I cant blame em. Kinda just depends on the person doing it I think.

This is not as stupid or rare as it seems.
I stole several moves from Bushido Blade on the old Play Station. Just don't dwell on the game. Many games are based on mapping real martial artist doing real forms. Of course some of them work.
Red and Buckler is the ****.
FB

Aha someone who understands, now I don't feel like I'm a retard anymore

to be honest, you may or may not be a retard. that is, sadly, independant of how you feel. facts are facts after all. Any move that uses circular movement and a short path between swings is going to be effective.

I'm fairly new to using my red. 49" long and an ounce over dead min weight. 1/2" square fiberglass. 4 layers blue. I'm 5'5" and 130 lbs so it's a good size for me. I've used it at a few day events and some practices here and there and I've learned a few things pretty quick about it. When I first made this thing I made it to break shields. I've noticed that I rarely even try to break shields. I go for any kind of kill shot. I have no kind of set stance either. And I always feel insanely loose when using this weapon for some reason. Throwing shots I always throw at some kind of angle or at the sides. Never straight chops unless I can tag a shoulder safely. A big thing I do that feels natural to me now is when I swing I always swing with some serious force and if I completely miss my target I let the weapon take my body in like an arc allowing me to spin and step back. My sword usually touches the ground and my back feels like it's bent back when I do this. Like a strike " Oh Crap" run away tactic. Seems like I always let the sword lead my body in most situations. I also tend to try to knock weapons out of peoples hands. I've been successful with this a lot. And it usually only works with newer people and people not expecting it. Blocking is actually not bad. My handle is fairly long on mine. And I use every bit of it to block anything. Usually other reds are easy to block compared to blues for me. This is just what I've been doing with my red. I don't know if this is a right or wrong way to do it but I had no guidance when I first started using it. I was mostly afraid of hurting people when I first started using a red.

Im rather new to belegarth, but not to fighting with a 2H sword, personally against a shiledman I find fighting in south paw best (for righties thats your left foot back) keep the blade parralel to your body and perpendicular to your target. Let them come to you, as soon as they bite on your exposed body go for a swing against their weapon arm...hopeully f timed right they will pull back and block rather then risk losing that arm. This opens your window and allows 2-3 rapid swings on their legs/arms or if ur lucky a 360 pivot swing on their back...it takes some getting used to but I find it effective for those that can fight with with either foot forward.

with larger swords (2 handed, hand and a half, red) i've actually found that a forward slanted stance works for me. i keep my hips a bit lower and slant the blade straight forward at about a 45-60 degree angle to the ground with the pommel at my waist. it allows for quick and powerful downstrokes and can still have reasonably varied strikes from other sides. as for defense i don't punch block a whole lot mostly i parry with the front 3/4 of the blade in a sort of fencing style. if someone gets in too close to defend that way i tend to block with the haft of my weapon and throw a shoulder check into their shield. obviously you'll get in trouble (i assume, haven't tried but shoulder checking a person probably counts as "striking") for doing that to someone without a shield so generally if it's a florentiner i just try to take them with me.

2cents

negative good sir.

you'll have to clarify that one jimmy

negative i'll get in trouble for ramming my shoulder into someone's body there fore that's ok.

or negative i shouldn't do that as it will get me a nice sit down with a herald.

Negative, as in it doesn't count as striking. Legal if done safely, and pity the poor red-sword fighter who doesn't know how.

I'm reviving this *.
I like Purp's post, he's a good red-sword user, hits hard as a *, has great footwork, a winning personality and * is he one pretty sumbitch.
Learned from a Drunken Master, a Stone-cold Surgeon, A Sociopathic Sadist, A Luck-touched Natural and what little information I could glean off the boards.
I've been perusing the boards and SCA technique and have found a couple good videos, treastsies and the like online and will post them following my thoughts.
I've just recently picked up * sword consistently since CWXV. Modded an Edhellen * sword to passing, love it more than any other style right now. I go thru years-long phases tho. I'm working on building a slightly bigger claymore and great sword respectively. Stoked to move up to a 6' then 7' omniglaive by CW.
Anyway I spend less time every practice back-pedaling and getting chumped and more time putting them on the defensive. I don't let people take red shots on shields that aren't up to snuff, which derails battles every once in a while.
My favorite thing is people will rush me to gank people on the line. They sometimes just ignore me, rush in close or past me, throw a couple shots and book out. They don't even look at me when they do this they're so used to murkin' reds and running lines dead.
I block, or I check their shields into their faces, or I'll step back, hip check them into the ground with a follow-murder stroke. Mostly this works. Sometimes this REALLY works and I'll have peeps on the sidelines freaking out. Very gratifying. Anyway, links are as follow;

King Mark de Arundel's written treastsie on * sword : http://www.scabastardsword.com/

Min red fighting is my fav thing as well. I find that if you throw the first shot and throw it hard, it usually turns out in your favor. Being defensive doesn't work as well in my opinion.

Broke a second shield at practice two weeks ago with my new great-sword. Thinking about carving hatch marks into my face every time this happens.

Truth.

I read something by Soo Ma Tai on on another thread yesterday and tried it at practice and it works beautifully. I want him to have full credit, but I want to share it on this thread as well.

This is for a right handed sword and boarder: You go to to a half sword stance with your right hand on the handle and left hand on the blade, sword down by your left side with the pommel pointing toward the opponent, right foot forward. when they throw their first shot you block with the pommel pointing straight up and push in, then use your pommel to hook the inside edge of their shield and pull it open, at this point you can either stab double green into their chest or swing the tip of your blade into their side. This is not verbatim and I added a couple things, but the general concept was his. Thanks dude!

I dont know if that will work well when the first shot is a stab. Ixous loves the hook and smash, and wears a breastplate simply because I've stabbed him too many times. And why I stab red users a lot.

Also good body mechanics with it. If not you'll just touch them lightly.

Yeah emphasis on that, good body mechanics because you don't have a lot of room to get power on a back swing or something. Although, you should ALWAYS be doing good body mechanics. If the first shot is stab, you can still do it, it's just more difficult.

The redsword killer, people with a shield and dagger. Atleast against a blue weapon, you have a chance.

(Arrakis taught me that one)

I wouldnt call that a red sword killer. With a dagger you can only stab and you have all zero range. Any red sword user worth their salt should be able to backpedal out of range of a dagger.

Or check them in the throat.

I'd really like to see some body checking with a redsword. Is there a video floating around. It's something I need to work on and if I saw a video it would help with the body mechanics and footwork.

Well, if said redsworder runs away from the dagger and shield, then yeah, they will live.


And yes, bodychecking with redswords works wonders. But, usually, only against smaller peeps. Redsworder usually has to be a bigger person in order to do it. I've tried pushing back chubby shieldmen (koom, Bam) but lemme tell ya, they will make you airborne. lol

Only big problem, I see, with it is its sometimes hard to tell if the enemy slash's at you and its harder to block, depending on how hard the hit is. Only time it really works is when the enemy least expects it. Surprise them and you can knock a 300LBS guy down. I weigh only 190 LBs so something like that is a feat. Fail at it and you might lose all the air in your lungs.

If a guy with a sheild and dagger came up to me, I would honestly laugh.

Its the principal. If you're covered in full armour then yes, you can laugh. Back pedalling won't save you, namely because a shieldman can, usually, run faster forward than you can backwards. Big shield and a dagger, they will smash into you and bunch your weapon up, no matter how big or small the redsword is. And while your redsword is locked because you're, pretty much, face to face with the shieldman, he can stab you almost anywhere he wants. I am sure some quick foot work can overcome it but truly, the shield and dagger is alot like the Spartan shield fighting thing. They smash into the opponent then stab with a tiny blue weapon sized sword that is really just a big dagger and you're dead.


Now, if you're BIGGER than the shieldman, you might have a chance. But, from where I come from, the biggest guys are all shieldman. Might be different where you live though....

Why would you stand there and let them run into you? Side step and smash the **** out of them.

You forget the key thing in fighting a dagger: its really short. Yeah, he may be able to cover 2 feet extra then you going forward. It doesnt matter though if his weapon is 2 feet shorter. Adding to the fact you should start with a 2-3 foot cushion since you have a minimum 48 inch weapon, and you should be able to smash the dagger user at least twice by maintaining distance through backward motion. If he eats up a foot of distance on on each step then you have three swings. If you're smart and going sword side on each swing, which you should since he doesnt have any length of weapon to block with besides his hand, you should be catching him in at least shield edge if arm. If its the hand thats a great way to discourage people to use daggers and rush reds.

I've seen this tactic used by 6 foot reds against snb'ers to good effect. Against a dagger it would be much more potent.

Leg snipe/shield kick. Problem solved vs dagger shield.

Fact.

Well, to be fair, I was probably using a 23.5" blue with a stabbing tip, so I had wraps if I needed them and more range than a little microphone dagger.



Surely you don't just assume all S&B fighters have terrible closing footwork...?

No of course not, but I do generally assume that if I do both at the same time it will usually work. Surprising people has very good benefits.

Most of them do.

Fact

I have to ask: Have you ever been knocked over in whole leg/snipe shield kick?

Many have tried, none have succeeded. I have been killed/wounded in the process, but never knocked down.

Explain to me better on this. Don't know the terms here...



But yeah, small baby redsword probably could eat up a dagger and shield but against the large swords, its a killer. However, I do aknowledge the fact that people from other parts of the country probably have come up with a way to stop the charging shieldman but here, they're good at it. Think they true key to redswording is you have to have ALOT of strength and stamina. Surprise is everything, but for the most part, singe redswords ALWAYS have a problem with stabbers, from spears to daggers.

I, however, like to stand and fight against Shieldmen, none of this running away crap unless I have to. See some other redsworders and they like to flee. Might be a good thing though.

If you're going to stand and bang with a shieldman, you need to be good at grappling and equipment manipulation.

Leg snipe = sniping for one's opponents leg a la leg chop.

Shield kick = kick opponents shield with ones foot.

I've done it the same trick with min reds, pole reds, and spears. It's not the most surefire way to deal with them sometimes, but it works for me.

Granted most people should never copy what I do verbatim, I do some crazy stuff on the field.

Fighting boards solo with a red is like having a 20-year-old blonde secretary. Fun and energetic, but pretty useless when you actually want to get **** accomplished.

Just sayin'.

everyone that is arguing against sleeper fight in IL where line fighting and higher caliber fighting is the norm, sleeper is from TENN where there is no such thing as real line fighting. Its all about the skirmish. IN the skirmish sleeper is correct, in a one on one sleeper is correct, in a line situation (like most 2 team fights in IL) peanut etc. is right. There are exceptions to the rule (ie. ixous, xiao, soth, magnus, FB ) but in general sleepers point is valid within his sphere of experience.

informative discussion and useful videos.

lol yeah, Understand that. If you got "help" then all this is mute. But when you're one on one against the dagger/shield, you have more of a problem. Didn't think of that though, I remember you IL guys when I went to Rag. Shieldlines everywhere, very few flankers.

*, yeah a shieldman will always have an advantage against a redswordsman, but if the shieldman falls against the redsworder, it means so much more. When the shieldman kills the redsworder, its expected....

1v1 against the Dagger shieldman, you shouldn't lose Use your range, kick them over, rip the shield out of their hands. wear armor and he can't kill you, have your way with him.

It''s funny you should say in a line, Elwrath, because I very rarely fight red swords in a line. Glaives, yeah, but not red swords. When I fight a red its always in teh open field. Funny enough since I'm primarily a skirmisher.

Im starting to think he's trying to approach red swording with a sword and board mentality. Different styles tend to have diffirent directional movement when fighting. Sword and boarders tend to stand and swing, two stickers tend to try to advance, and polearms/red weapons tend to move back. This is because of their different equipment. Shieldmen have a big hunk of foam that can take shots, two sticks want to hit the other person as quickly and as many times as possible, and polearms/reds want to maintain range.

Since they want to maintain that range, the logical thing for someone fighting them is to get inside their range to where they can be least effective, the pole/red doesnt want that. So the backing up to maintain the range where they can hit the rushers but not vice versa. Thats why i think dagger/board is silly. You have given up loads of range.

Guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

(You guys will learn.... someday)

Learn what? We are all killing people with board/short blue/dagger combos and you're struggling. We're trying to help out.

I hereby challenge you to a duel. Use whatever weapon you like.

(serious by the way, you come up to any Tennessee Events, like EQ or beltaine?)

Any chance us humble IL fighters will see you up at Geddon, Sleeper? We'd love to have ya.

I hope you're not taking what I said as a personal attack. I like to keep debates and such respectful. I would like to fight you as you have a reputation around the interwebz. I'd like to go to something out of state, but money is tight right now so anything out of state is out of the question. I'll hold you to that should I ever make it out there.

*immensely pleased at the respect everyone is showing each other*

you aren't supposed to jinx it remy