Fighting Tutorial Videos uploaded

[MagnusofDregoth]

Check them out, on our YouTube Channel. Keep in mind, these are intended for new fighters, so they omit a lot of stuff that may come in useful later, but because this is the Internet, we will be able to add new stuff easily.

[MagnusofDregoth]

No one has anything to say? Alas!

[Aegis]

Label them to what they talk about, I know personally I havent watched past the first one since I dont want to try to find something that interests me as a veteran, thats alot of tutorial to filter thru.

[MagnusofDregoth]

I've added titles to the videos. Though as an experienced fighter, you probably won't find much of interest in these videos anyway. They're intended as a "from scratch" set of tutorials for new fighters, especially new fighters that don't have any experienced fighters nearby to help them learn.

[Arrakis]

Post a link in the "New Fighters" section, then, perhaps. Mostly it's old hands that read this forum.

[Aegis]

I've added titles to the videos. Though as an experienced fighter, you probably won't find much of interest in these videos anyway. They're intended as a "from scratch" set of tutorials for new fighters, especially new fighters that don't have any experienced fighters nearby to help them learn.

I pick up little tidbits from everyone. I went to an SCA practice and a couple little moves they did for noobies, I translated over to a non-headshot thats become one of my new favorite shots, and ive been fighting for over a decade now... Ill watch them soon and give you my review.

Regardless I think its very cool you took the time to make something to help the new players out. Back in my day in another sport, I had to learn by hard knocks and begging veterans to take time to show me stuff. we didnt have no fancy high faluting internet videos to watch. 5 miles uphill in the snow to meet the masters for 10 minutes of instructions each day, backwards type crap.

[debuenzo]

those vids are very nice

simple, but it never hurts to rethink a bit on the basics

i can't wait for more advanced vids!

[Rumbeard]

I'm a noob, I'l have a look at them this evening when I have more time

[Olos]

I've added titles to the videos. Though as an experienced fighter, you probably won't find much of interest in these videos anyway. They're intended as a "from scratch" set of tutorials for new fighters, especially new fighters that don't have any experienced fighters nearby to help them learn.

I pick up little tidbits from everyone. I went to an SCA practice and a couple little moves they did for noobies, I translated over to a non-headshot thats become one of my new favorite shots, and ive been fighting for over a decade now... Ill watch them soon and give you my review.

Regardless I think its very cool you took the time to make something to help the new players out. Back in my day in another sport, I had to learn by hard knocks and begging veterans to take time to show me stuff. we didnt have no fancy high faluting internet videos to watch. 5 miles uphill in the snow to meet the masters for 10 minutes of instructions each day, backwards type crap.

And all with a 4 ounce sword. You've grown up so much aegis, almost brings me to tears.

[Aegis]

my first swords were very heavy pvc ducttape with sand in them(at nero in the old days)... 4 oz was only in the 2-3yrs before bel....man are 4oz weapons broken.

but superhumanly light lets the weak people compete too.
unfortunately it means you gotta match up to stay competitive.

[Cib]

They're intended as a "from scratch" set of tutorials for new fighters, especially new fighters that don't have any experienced fighters nearby to help them learn.

He! that would be me. I have watched over half now, good stuff. I will defiantly be watching them more so I can go out and practice the stuff! Defiantly clear and basic/fundamentals, just what I need.

[Lucos]

Yes. These are just what I need.
I've been fighting 10 months and still quite noobish.

THANK YOU!

[debuenzo]

magnus, you guys planning any advanced vids anytime soon?

[MagnusofDregoth]

We'll be filming out advanced class at Ragnarok, but I don't know if we will be able to do a real "video lecture" for a few months. Maybe by October, we'll have something else up. However, the YouTube channel will be accessible by several other people, so if they can make something usable and put it up, that would be very useful.

[Rumbeard]

I think the vids are great. You got straight to the point with em and didn't clutter em up with a bunch of showoff fluff. I look forward to more and will recomend these to anyone lookin to study some basics

[Soo Ma Tai]

These are great vids, and even veteran fighters can get something from them, cause after all those trick get used up, you've got to rely on basics. A great martial arts teacher told me once, when you reach a plateau, return to the basics.

[MagnusofDregoth]

Thanks a lot for the comments guys, it's very gratifying to hear that people are finding the videos useful. At Ragnarok this past week, lots of people I'd never met came up to me and thanked me for putting these up. But the real thanks go to Tindos, who did all of the filming, editing and uploading.

[Kirethorn]

Half of our unit are martial artists so we'll knock over that aggresive shielding pretty quickly. Thank's for posting this.

[tvetree]

. A great martial arts teacher told me once, when you reach a plateau, return to the basics.

This is so true it's scary.

[Thanatos]

hnmmm i can now see what someone in another thread was talking about. you guys hold your weapons by the pommel. does this really do anything other than giving you a longer reach? and seeing as most of those shield moves are requiring a close proximity then i don't think you'd want a longer reach anyway, so whats going on with it?

[Kirethorn]

According to a training manual we downloaded wielding a weapon by the pommel yields better reach and control. How would it give you better control? With aggressive shielding I would be more likely to use a sabre grip to increase the speed of my attacks to take advantage of any opportunity, not a pommel grip.

I'm not trying to criticise your videos, we'll be using them a lot training our recruits, I just want to know the reasoning for your grip choice.

[Arrakis]

Pommel grip gives you some strike options you wouldn't otherwise have, due to interference between your wrist and your pommel at full extension.

Try it out, see if you like it. If you don't, you don't have to use it. I know many excellent fighters who never pommel-fight.

[Sir Cairbre]

Pommel grip gives you some strike options you wouldn't otherwise have, due to interference between your wrist and your pommel at full extension.

???

I think you are talking about using a pommel designed to fight with that has a stiffer base near the handle. And or fighting with your entire hand on a pommel. Where traditionally a pommel grip would include rapping 1 or 2 fingers around the handle and the palm of the hand would be rapping around the pommel, (I might scan clements sword fighting pages to explain better, but they are packed for my move.)

How large is your pommel? How small are your hands and wrist? Pommel grip looses 1/3's-1/2 of your power, doubles your whip, and gives you about 2-3" more reach compared to a full hand grip. Additionally it destroys your pommel as you fight in our sport. With an edhellen s-broad I don't loose any range of motion due to the pommel striking my wrist. I do however gain some motion if I don't rap my index finger around the base of the handle, but in that case I loose over 90% of the power and likewise grip of the sword. Pommel grip also advances the angle of your sword forward. Traditionally anytime you advance the angle of your sword you give up power and gain a misconception of speed by shortening the distance traveled as well as the relevand distance between sword edge and hand/arm.

In reference to Magnus'-video the statement could be made you gain firmer more precise control as well as minute amounts of distance, but loose your top percent of deliverable power.

[Arrakis]

Like I said, I don't pommel fight. I like my power and I don't need the extra whip or wrist bend range.

*shrug*

[Dabbanoth]

I pommel fight and i hit quite solidly.

[Arrakis]

I pommel fight and i hit quite solidly.

QFT.

[Sir Cairbre]

I pommel fight and i hit quite solidly.

QFT.

"Pay no attention to Wimp Lo, we purposely trained him wrong... as a joke. " - Master Tang

[Soo Ma Tai]

I, personally, don't like the pommel grip, or the thumb on the handle grip and here's my reasoning. Firstly, I have trained in chinese MA in the use of the sword, as well as Filipino MA (escrima, kali, etc.) and understand the trditional grips used in those styles. That is beside the point however. I like to think of belegarth, as a kind of training, so I do my best to not develop bad habits along the way. Pommel gripping is bad for the simple reason that most real life clubs that one would pick up for self defense don't have a pommel. I have an extending baton I keep in the car, there is no pommel. As for the thumb grip, I have found that it is a bit faster in some cases, but blocking can cause major injuries to the thumb.

I like to use a grip referred to as the "tiger's mouth". It consists of using the pointer finger and thumb to hold the weapon near the forte' of the blade, and using the rest of the fingers to control and provide snap at the end of the strike.

[Skydd]

I pommel fight and i hit quite solidly.

There's a difference between landing a solid shot, and landing a powerful shot. I use the pommel grip 2 on handle, 2 on pommel, I land solid shots, but rarely do I actually hit hard. If I need more power, I slide my hand up the weapon to get a full grip on the handle. It gives the reach, and that little extra arc to your shot that may not be as powerful, but can sometimes be the difference between a hit and a shield block.

[Arrakis]

Skydd, by that definition, there are very few people who hit "hard" on a regular basis in the sport. People like Peter the Quick come to mind, or Pickles, who can smash through my strap shield blocks, let alone my weapon blocks.

Most people only ever want to land a solid shot where their opponent's block isn't, not destroy their blocks and hit them anyway.

[Titan G]

I pommel fight as does vokor and we both hit rather solidly( that is to say I never have a problem with anyone not taking just my shots, if they aren’t taking mine then usually they aren’t taking anyone’s) I prefer pommel fighting for the reach and new angles it can afford me. I also tape up my pommels a few inches into the handle on an edhellen or home made weapon because it affords me a better grip on my pommel so really most pommel fighting i've seen consists of all the way on the pommel and a few inches up the handle.

If you view bele like training as others have mentioned then I perfectly understand why you don’t pommel fight. But for people who few it as a sport then I would recommend it, BUT I would only recommend it once you have the basics down. Pommel fighting in my mind is the next evolution after the basics because it affords u and advantage. I view bele as a sport personally so i'm usually willing to take any advantage that doesn’t involve cheating. Also whether its an illusion of speed or more speed itself I cant empirically say but I know I FEEL faster when pommel fighting

[Skydd]

Skydd, by that definition, there are very few people who hit "hard" on a regular basis in the sport. People like Peter the Quick come to mind, or Pickles, who can smash through my strap shield blocks, let alone my weapon blocks.

Most people only ever want to land a solid shot where their opponent's block isn't, not destroy their blocks and hit them anyway.

That's exactly my point. In the grand scheme of things, there really aren't that many people who hit "hard". Most people are satisfied with a solid shot, with more control/accuracy. So pommel fighting to get that extra wrap-shot, or accuracy at the expense of power is fine, and in many cases encouraged. I'd much rather fight a finesse fighter who can land a solid "middle-strength" shot wherever he chooses as opposed to a power fighter who has no control.

I'm not saying that all "power fighters" have no control, but it's inherant to the system. When pommel fighting, you gain a little more of a finesse aspect at the expense of power.

[Soo Ma Tai]

I have to disagree Skydd...I believe I have just as much finesse and control of my weapon using a standard grip as anyone who fights pommel grip. I can't really sight any proof or examples of this, just my opinion.

[Skydd]

Control no, I'll admit I didn't mean to imply that holding a part of the weapon that allows a shot to rotate that much gives control. Control is something learned by practice and experience, not by your hand positioning.

However, I believe that pommel fighting does give you more finesse in your shots. Where a power-fighter would hit your shield so hard it moves whether you want it to or not, a finesse fighter will simply use the extra bend in a pommel to go around it. Also it adds more of a fluid nature to combos as you get just that little bit of extra rotation with less effort from your wrist if you loosen the grip on the handle and let the pommel rotate the weapon before you clamp down and drive to your next shot.

[Soo Ma Tai]

The grip I use allows for full rotation of shots. I am a finesse and speed fighter, not a power fighter. Ask anyone whos seens me fight. It's about proper use of the weapon, and a pommel grip gives you less control, which to me means less finesse, less ability to change with the flow of combat. A good grip will allow for all of the same shots with better control. If you can get the same angle between the tw grips you need to work on flexibility, not change the grip.

[Skydd]

I wasn't trying to imply that there is a "right" or "wrong" way to fight. I am simply commenting on the things I've noticed, and what works for me. My example of power fighters versus finesse fighters was my own observations and weren't directed at any one person. I was simply trying to state what I've seen work for both myself, and a few fighters I've spoken with on the subject. Does pommel-fighting work for everyone? No, absolutely not. But I have seen others, as well as myself, slowly slide down the weapon the longer they fight. I used to fight with a full handle grip, now I fight half and half. It has given me a little extra range, and a little more arc on some of my wrap shots. I will probably not go any farther down than where I am now, I'm happy with my speed, power, and accuracy as they are.

[Dabbanoth]

If you want to spar me at Oktoberfest, ill show you how hard a shot you can throw with a pommel-grip fighting style, its not about how you hold your weapon, its about how you move with the shot.

[HesinRaca]

I, personally, don't like the pommel grip, or the thumb on the handle grip and here's my reasoning. ....I do my best to not develop bad habits along the way. ....As for the thumb grip, I have found that it is a bit faster in some cases, but blocking can cause major injuries to the thumb........I like to use a grip referred to as the "tiger's mouth"..

I'm going to throw in my two cents to this. I agree entirely with Soo Ma Tai. I preface this by saying that I recognize that Belegarth is not intended to be a re-enactment but a sport based on medieval combat. With that said, combat has been around since human's began fevolving from primates. The grips, holds, and hand postures you see in asian martial arts, chinese especially, have the deepest roots in their developement.

I know this thumb on the back of the handle grip is extremely popular, but its also very bad for you. Barring incidents of injury from pressing the thumb back during a block or whatever else, the real issue comes from the extra tension involved, and this is something I've learned from blacksmithing and metalsmithing as well as Kung Fu and Samurai Swordsmanship. With the thumb used as additional pressure on the handle, be it a hammer or a sword, you're pressing additional tension through a joint intended for gripping and finesse, not force. The main resultants are physical-arthritis due to join damage, and more importantly, extreme tendenitis which comes from putting too much force, shock, and tension in the tenden in the thumb. Tendons don't heal well. I know a lot of really good fighters hold their swords this way, but they're taking a risk of immobility in their thumbs.

Food for thought.

[Cib]

A good fighter should be able to change his grip stile depending on what grip stile will best suite the situation/shot he is going to through should he not? I know there is at least one SKBC video where the instructor basically says this.

[MagnusofDregoth]

I didn't show it in this video, at least not intentionally, but I change my grip all the time. A rectangular grip profile makes this very easy, and it is very important to be able to do this when using an edged weapon (as opposed to a flail or a club). Being able to change your grip is, in my opinion, about as important as being able to change your stance on the fly.