Dealing with Mr. Megahelm Coreless Tower Shield Guy

[Black Cat]

What is the best way to fight someone with a huge, but obnoxiously lightweight tower shield and a blue weapon whom is also wearing a helm without having to pick up a huge board yourself?

Say you are fighting with any one of these styles: Florentine, Redsword, Glaive, Spear, Archery, or another weapon style that doesn't let you pick up a shield bigger than 14-16 inches in diameter without severely encumbering you.

What kind of techniques would you use to attempt to defeat such a fighter? What would you not do?

[Soo Ma Tai]

Allright BC, now I am considering this from the 1 vs. 1 point of view, except for archery, which I will cover first.

Archery: you won't win 1 v 1, get behind them and shoot them in the back. Dont waste you efforts trying to shoot them from the front, it is almost pointless unless they happen to open up just in time for your shot to land.

Red Sword, Glaive, Spear: You will need to use your range advantage and maintain it. Otherwise you will get closed on and die. Use off angles and break the shield, Keep moving!

Florentine: Block and strike at the same time, use counterswinging, and overwhelm your opponent with a flurry of blows designed to open up the target you want to hit without allowing your opponent to swing back. You must throw shot that have to be blocked with both shield and sword, or they will just shield block you and then counter when you are open.

[Chicken]

As a spearman I will happily pick an opponent with a punch tower over a strap any day, so that part at least is certainly not always to your disadvantage.

Assuming you don't use a close-range backup weapon and that it's 1-on-1 with no allies anywhere else on the field, you'll need a fighting retreat. Don't go straight back, pick a side, preferably their weapon side, and run at that angle. Keep attacking, there's no other way you'll win. Generally speaking there's little to no risk or cost to attacking with a spear, so the more and faster you do so, the better you'll be.

Punch shields are really easy to knock around with any two handed weapon, have fun. If you stab to either edge you can often turn the shield 90 degrees - alone, this is obviously most useful on the inside edge. If you're safe about it, you can also bat the edges with the haft, which can achieve the same effect but leave you in a better position, or can twist the shield out of vertical. Vary your shot placement; many punch shield users will move their shield to block more strongly either out of instinct or to avoid your manipulations, the more you get them to start dancing it around the more likely you are to get a chance to jump into an opening. Finally, if you have a hook, work it and make them cry.

If you have a backup weapon you can choose to close instead. The increased mobility of a punch gives it better protection in tight than a strap if they block up high and pin your (backup) weapon arm back. To avoid that, try to catch them by surprise (lunging forward suddenly in a retreat) or from an angle where you have more openings.

In a line or with a partner you get to use all those same tricks with much less threat of them rushing you. Work their shield until you get through, or better yet coordinate with a teammate and give them an opening - you can often not only move their shield where they don't want it but hold it there almost indefinitely.

[Black Cat]

As a spearman I will happily pick an opponent with a punch tower over a strap any day, so that part at least is certainly not always to your disadvantage.

Assuming you don't use a close-range backup weapon and that it's 1-on-1 with no allies anywhere else on the field, you'll need a fighting retreat. Don't go straight back, pick a side, preferably their weapon side, and run at that angle. Keep attacking, there's no other way you'll win. Generally speaking there's little to no risk or cost to attacking with a spear, so the more and faster you do so, the better you'll be.

Punch shields are really easy to knock around with any two handed weapon, have fun. If you stab to either edge you can often turn the shield 90 degrees - alone, this is obviously most useful on the inside edge. If you're safe about it, you can also bat the edges with the haft, which can achieve the same effect but leave you in a better position, or can twist the shield out of vertical. Vary your shot placement; many punch shield users will move their shield to block more strongly either out of instinct or to avoid your manipulations, the more you get them to start dancing it around the more likely you are to get a chance to jump into an opening. Finally, if you have a hook, work it and make them cry.

If you have a backup weapon you can choose to close instead. The increased mobility of a punch gives it better protection in tight than a strap if they block up high and pin your (backup) weapon arm back. To avoid that, try to catch them by surprise (lunging forward suddenly in a retreat) or from an angle where you have more openings.

In a line or with a partner you get to use all those same tricks with much less threat of them rushing you. Work their shield until you get through, or better yet coordinate with a teammate and give them an opening - you can often not only move their shield where they don't want it but hold it there almost indefinitely.

Cool. This is exactly the kind of advice I was looking for.

Since I coincidentally have a 102" (8 1/2 feet) Bandpole spear that I originally constructed as a prepatory project for building a glaive, I'll have to upgrade it with a shield hook this spring and try that stuff out.

Being a member of Aquilonia, I'm sure that there are plenty of tower punch users I can fight to learn how these moves really work for myself. I actually find it kind of embarrasing that I forgot about how well those guys block arrows though when I made my first post about my opinion of physic's proposed ruleset in the rules discussion forum. Oops. Oh well...

Anyway, thanks for posting.

Black Cat

[Arrakis]

Florentine, I'd be shield kicking, stabbing their shield, throwing fast combos, and trying to draw a big shot so I can counterstrike their arm off. And if you can put them hard on the defensive, press their shield with your left hand and wrap them up with your right, just don't neglect your defense. Not easy to do, but effective and not too hard, either.


Redsword... I don't know, man. Crank on their shield to make it propeller, but otherwise, excepting "be physical and move their shield with your body", I don't have a lot of advice.

Sword and buckler... I LOVE my 16" square punch target (1/2" plywood core, 2 layers blue on the front, 3 layers blue on the edges). Just hit their shield with it, block actively, and fight in close. You definitely want a stab tip on your 30-35" sword (this opens up PLENTY of shots you couldn't do with a 36-38 inch non-stabber).

[p_quick]

any style you are using you need to be more moblale then the tower shield, and you will find that opening you seek. oh, and be physical

[Remdawg Killionaire]

Grab your weapon. You must have names for your weapons; mine are Gladys and Debbie the Mophandle specifically. Line up, psych up(yelling, screaming and shrieking) and channel the energy into your attack.
I generally imagine myself as a salmon, swimming upstream and dive head first into them. Head-shots aint ****!
plus, they/I signed the wavier. Right?

[MagnusofDregoth]

A spear with a good hook on it will destroy this guy. No ****, there I was at Badon Hill with my 8' hooked spear, and I popped off like 6 Gestiguiste fighters in about 1-2 minutes (they all use light tower shields) just by yanking their shields away and jamming into their guts. This is of course more of a viable battlefield tactic than a sparring tactic, but even one-on-one you can usually get a good knee/shin stab, and once your opponent is on the ground, it is all over.

[Winfang]

Barring the whining of people on the sidelines, this video shows a great flourentine fighter, Spyn, taking on a towershield/flail fighter.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4fHuGwygD0

[Arkin]

You really cant see the hits and his sword was always punch blocking the right way granted its a flail. But I dont get why people would boo someone so badly, I guess you hold a higher standard for great fighters and you judge them more then you think... I could careless about all that drama.

anyways

If someone has a huge shield in front of me and were line fighting (so he has to stay still.) shield kicking them so they land flat on there back then standing on the shield like a table while its on there arm is fun. they cant move because of the size of the shield and you know it hurts them standing on it like that. If there sword is trapped under there shield you can fight others from on top of the shield and he wont be able to swing at you. Even if his arms not trapped the size of the shield makes it hard to swing at you while your on it.(the guy i did this to had a strap so I dont know how well it will work on a punch shield.)

If your not line fighting just use your footwork and out move them and find your shots. Most people that use shields that big have a bad problem with leaving themselves open when fighting so they use a bigger shield to fix that instead of figuring out what they are doing wrong.

[Slagar]

Vids like that are why I refuse to herald. I would have called him dead, and lots of dirty names, when he probably got in blocks on pretty much all of those shots. It's just too * hard to tell what does and doesn't hit just by watching a fight, and I'm waaaay too quick to lose my cool. One thing I picked up from Physic, just assume everyone takes all their hits all the time, because otherwise I'd just sound like a jackass booing a great fighter from the sidelines.

[Forkbeard]

Where and when are you encountering this guy, BC?
I havn't seen you at a practice in likea year and a half.
If you come out, I'll show you some tricks.
FB

[Black Cat]

Where and when are you encountering this guy, BC?
I havn't seen you at a practice in likea year and a half.
If you come out, I'll show you some tricks.
FB

Some time at Chaos Wars back in 2006. I also encountered several of these guys (sans helms) at Sam Hain IV in 2007 and again at Yestare VIII earlier this year.

I'll try to make it out, but my transportation situation is no better now than it was in 2005. As you already know, I didn't show up to a single practice in 2005, (which is why my 'official' start date for actual participation in Belegarth is February 2006) and it wasn't because I didn't want to come.

[bo1]

well, i am having this problem with this guy, he doesn't come to practice anymore and i never see , , ,him but he has thsis thing that i can't deal with. any solutions to this nonexistant problem would be great.

Welcome to the sarchasm. it is deep and wide.

[Black Cat]

well, i am having this problem with this guy, he doesn't come to practice anymore and i never see , , ,him but he has thsis thing that i can't deal with. any solutions to this nonexistant problem would be great.

Welcome to the sarchasm. it is deep and wide.

Look, I asked about advice for fighting 'this guy' because his fighting style was (and still is) a huge cliche' and any information I can get about fighting against this style will be very valuable to me in the future when (or if) I can start getting out to practice regularly.

If you have a problem with that, then sue me. Actually, on second thought, don't. I don't want to end up losing in court like McDonalds did over that hot coffee.

[Dane]

If you're not practicing, no amount of advice is going to help you. Knowledge is part of the battle, and practice and execution is the other. Unless you've developed your skill set in such a way that it includes the movements and techniques necessary to beat the tower shield (and for some reason you haven't employed them on your own), no amount of telling is going to help you until you get out and work at it.

That said, usually a big shield (excepting knights and certain individuals) is compensation for poor footwork and/or poor weapon blocking. For single blue or florentine, move off the opponent's center line to create openings, or feint to his weapon side to pull his shield over, and hack or wrap the new opening.

When fighting single blue, I'm getting into the habit of baiting the opponent into a cross shot. When he throws the shot, I step in, block the shot, and grab his shield with my free hand. From there, you just manipulate the shield and strike the opening.

And kicks. Anyone that said kicks, I echo that. Coreless punch towers flop like an Italian soccer player under a good kick. If you've got two swords, stab the outside edge of the shield and hack the creamy center.

[Arkin]

well, i am having this problem with this guy, he doesn't come to practice anymore and i never see , , ,him but he has thsis thing that i can't deal with. any solutions to this nonexistant problem would be great.

Welcome to the sarchasm. it is deep and wide.

Look, I asked about advice for fighting 'this guy' because his fighting style was (and still is) a huge cliche' and any information I can get about fighting against this style will be very valuable to me in the future when (or if) I can start getting out to practice regularly.

If you have a problem with that, then sue me. Actually, on second thought, don't. I don't want to end up losing in court like McDonalds did over that hot coffee.

Well when or if you start fighting again I hope you run into a guy with a strap tower shield because you just wasted all of are time. Luckily tho this is a forum so you kinda played the devils advocate. LOL Black Cat your special and if I ever see you I want to give you a hug.

[Black Cat]

well, i am having this problem with this guy, he doesn't come to practice anymore and i never see , , ,him but he has thsis thing that i can't deal with. any solutions to this nonexistant problem would be great.

Welcome to the sarchasm. it is deep and wide.

Look, I asked about advice for fighting 'this guy' because his fighting style was (and still is) a huge cliche' and any information I can get about fighting against this style will be very valuable to me in the future when (or if) I can start getting out to practice regularly.

If you have a problem with that, then sue me. Actually, on second thought, don't. I don't want to end up losing in court like McDonalds did over that hot coffee.

Well when or if you start fighting again I hope you run into a guy with a strap tower shield because you just wasted all of are time. Luckily tho this is a forum so you kinda played the devils advocate. LOL Black Cat your special and if I ever see you I want to give you a hug.

Fine, I just won't post in the rules discussion forum anymore if that makes you guys happy. I only post there because I'm bored anyway. Just get off my *.

BTW, the info is much appreciated even though your attitudes toward me (Bo and Arkin specifically) at the end are not. I have run into plenty of coreless tower shield guys before at previous events I have made it to, and I am very confident that I will run into more than one such fighter in a single day of fighting sometime in 2009. I only wanted advice on how to fight these guys once I start meeting up with them again in the coming season.

And yes, I really do have a 102" Bandpole spear. I still need to put a shield hook on it, but it is otherwise already contructed. I'll post a picture of it in this thread or in Foamsmithing as soon as I can get access to a digital camera, that is if any of you even care to see it.

[Arkin]

I said that because I honestly think your sexy. talk all you want in the forums its nice that you like sword fighting that much. If you did go to practice I wonder how good you would be? You must have a lot of drive to be on the forums, but not come to practices. Drives very key to being good, you should try to go to practice.

[Black Cat]

I said that because I honestly think your sexy. talk all you want in the forums its nice that you like sword fighting that much. If you did go to practice I wonder how good you would be? You must have a lot of drive to be on the forums, but not come to practices. Drives very key to being good, you should try to go to practice.

Oh, sorry. I thought you meant 'special' in a derogatory and sarcastic way.

I do make local events, but not having a car or the license to drive one really limits how often I can do much of anything. My knowledge of how the Belegarth fighting system works is decent, (I read the BOW regularly and keep track of fighting materials and information) but my experience and skill level aren't very high. I wish I could make it to practice, but right now things are not going well for me in real-life.