Flow Experience with Swordfighting

[Bhakdar]

I'm posting this in response to a request from another thread. Warning, this is a longy but I feel a goody, and it may not make sense to a lot of folks. If you don’t get it, don’t worry! You can still be a good fighter without ever getting it. You’ll experience it on occasion whether you try or not. First, I highly recommend reading this excellent and brief wikipedia excerpt:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flow_experience

So this psychologist, Mihály Csíkszentmihályi, did a lot of study about 'flow experience' or a state of being so deeply involved in one's activity that a person loses sense of time and lets go of judging or evaluating their situation consciously. In the article, focus on the ‘Criteria’ and 'Sports' sections. That under your belt, let's apply it to sword-fighting:

1) It takes a lot of practice in good form with basic techniques before they are ingrained to muscle memory. Understanding the theory behind why techniques are executed a certain way also helps most people integrate and improve them. This is a pre-requisite to opening the capacity for flow experience.

2) Intermediate fighting is just getting faster and more precise with basics. Warriors also start a 'toolbox' of tricks & personal style.

3) As you become advanced through practice, your toolbox gets bigger but more improtantly your basics and tricks become automatic. You don’t have to think on the field, just do.

Solid basics + practice + patience = Flow Experience.

Practicing flow experience = How to generate more flow experience

In sword fighting, flow may be when you are killing or moving most efficiently, seemingly effortlessly, and not consciously evaluating death or what the opponent is doing. Yes your consciousness is intact (and in fact fully alert), but it is on a plane of feeling rather than thinking about you or your opponent’s next move. Your performance feels optimal and blissful. (And whether it appears to others as impressive or not is totally irrelevant to its qualifying as 'flow.')

Once your technique is advanced, if you are thinking heavily rather than feeling the combat itself, you are slowing yourself down. Let Go. I should note here that this applies to the thick of combat. When there’s time to observe the field, where you fit best, what team is moving where, then yes: mentally analyze and respond. That’s your chance- do it. When poop hits the fan is when the opportunity for flow arises. And yes, it is an advanced thing. As a newer fighter, don’t think that visualizing yourself as Bruce Lee on the field will make it so right then and there.

Off the field, of course it is important to mentally understand the how and why of what you learn in sparring, online text, etc. Enjoy analysis. It helps integrate understanding. Flow experience is the integration of understanding and exercise into optimal performance.

Let’s move to specific examples of how analysis can squelch flow:

A) Some fighters try to change a good thing just to diversify themselves. “I’m going to stop doing that technique, I used it too much last year”. If it’s something that gets you killed all the time: then yes, Stop. If it works a lot though, and you’re seeking change for its own sake, focus on new grooves but don’t limit your killing power by getting rid of your old gold.

B) Intermediate fighter A approaches advanced fighter B thinking, “I’m gonna die.” You’re probably right. You chose to before you even got within range. It’s much more worthwhile as soon as you recognize that impulse to change it into, “I’m going to go balls to the walls on this guy and see what happens.” Get physical, be unpredictable, or dart around him and try to change it into a flanking attack where they have to focus on another teammate, etc. Do what you need to, just don’t defeat yourself before you try.

C) Two analytic advanced fighters approach each other both thinking, “This guy is 70% likely to open with shot A or B, with a 40% chance of combo C, I should probably be prepared to block…” And then they’re both bleeding, backstabbed by a goblin. Shoulda shut up that mental chatter and got down to killing each other.

All that said, there is a time and a place for everything, especially knowing other advanced fighters that you have to fight often. If you practice fighting more than thinking though, (just like ingraining basics/repeated sequences), concsiousness will absorb and automatically adapt to fighting certain people as soon as you see their face coming at you. Your body will respond in kind if you let it. (This includes training fear out of the mind as in example A)

What I'm ultimately trying to convey here is that once you have a certain level of understanding and practice within the game, you don’t need to think about the details in the midst of fighting so DON'T. That's unnecessary baggage that weighs a lot of folks down. Cultivate an attitude of fun & enjoying the fight rather than judging your or others' performance.

[Arkin]

I like how you explain flow Bhakdar its a state of mind is what your saying. Basically you let everything go and see things as they are and react completely off of your training and bad or good habits. Thats why its hard for new fighters to do this because they also have bad habits they will react on.

If you think about it, Or atleast how I take it physic wrote kinda the same thing in another thread.

Fighting has three stratas which a warrior must pass through to mastery:
1) The physical. Like learning the alphabet, these are the basic building blocks of fighting. They are the basic movements (shots and blocking) and elements of timing, range and balance. The physical is about you and what you are doing.
2) The mental. You move from the alphabet to the words and their meanings. When you have the basics to the point where you don't have to consciously think of them and your body does them automatically, you start exploring the mental aspect. Until that happens, the mental side can seem a mystery. The mental fight takes into account tactics, combinations, more advanced maneuvering, rhythm, positioning and perception of your opponent and his intent. The mental is about what your opponent is doing.
3) The spiritual. This plane is very difficult to cross into and few fighters do. Using the language analogy, it is complex conversation. Like the previous planes, you have to leave the previous (mental) behind to cross to the spiritual. It is where you understand all that is around both you and your opponent and act without thought, each time appropriately. By the time you arrive at this plane, you've left the details of the physical and mental behind. The spiritual is about what you and your opponent do together, how you interact and guiding that interaction.

In my mind both of you guys came to the same conclusion in your sword fighting. Just both in a completely different ways from each other, and some people will relate better to you bhakdar and some people will relate better to what Physic wrote. If you dont think I am right bhakdar tell me, I was just trying to understand your thoughts on "flow" better.

[Bhakdar]

I think you're correct in drawing a parallel there. I see that parallel.

Continuing food for thought on that post from Physic (who he accredits to SCA Tristan I believe) and flow experience would be suggested reading I've mentioned elsewhere:

Book of Five Rings by Musashi. It addresses the physical importance of learning technique and practical strike zones as well as mental shifts in attitude and understanding. And there is some guidance towards recognizing warriorship as a spiritual process of development. When your energy is resonating optimally with everything around (as is characteristic of a flow experience including on the battlefield), you're in a high spiritual state.

[bo1]

i love the tool box reference, i believe heavily in this process. the more tools you have, the better chance for hav ing the perfect tool for the task at hand.

i also agree with the aspect of flow. they ring true in my experience, and in practice. at practgice i tend to think alot, and at events i tend to just go balls and see what happens. i fing that i out perform myself at events and practice i am usually underperforming. interesting that this explains all this with perfect ease. good stuff. B-tar i am always inspired by how sharp and knowlegable you are. i guess i should expect it by now.

[Soo Ma Tai]

This state of Flow is know among martial circles as the state of "no mind" when you are not consiously planning the next move, instead, feeling and responding in turn to the circumstances around you.

[Remdawg Killionaire]

The battle-lust
Kaber is the best at this I've seen. He has that laugh, he just grins and laughs so much and so hard like it's really a joke to him while he bashes people to bits, blocking shots from every angle without even looking spinning his weapon in a dance of death. SERIOUSLY it is RIDICULOUS.

[Mekoot Gorlock]

I like flow a lot, I have written a paper or 2 on it over the last few years and I plan to do some flow research at some point.

Arikin, it doesn't matter much for purposes here but flow is a little different than a state of mind. It is an altered state of consciousness. The key is having difficulty and skill meet. You have to know yourself and your abilities well and, I find it easiest to induce when you force a situation (the balls to the wall idea). I think that due to the mental changes that one goes through it should alter brain waves (the research I want to do). To me it is the same as the difference between sleeping and being awake (awake to flow for me has the same increase in awareness(while fighting)).

The best thing about flow is that if you experience it in one situation, say reading, you can try to generalize it to other situations. It takes work, but it can be done. It also gets easier as you do it more often.

Csíkszentmihályi worked in chicago for a long time, I am mildly confused that some of the people from that area didn't know about his work before. He recently moved to Cali. He has some really good books on flow that some of you might be interested in. The first was published in the 70's.

[Derian]

Now all we need to do is be able to call it up on demand.

****.

[Mekoot Gorlock]

I can probably help you with that Derian. We can talk about it at practice.

If people want to know more about flow, talk to me at an event.

[Derian]

Word.

[Arrakis]

Sounds like Musashi's "Void".

[Hatchet]

Cultivate an attitude of fun & enjoying the fight rather than judging your or others' performance.

So in summation "Don't take fighting super serrial ?"

[Blackhawk]

I totally agree with the flow idea. I do experience this on a regular basis and did not know what to call it. Usually I would say something like there is a difference between fast and smooth.
Well said!

[Bhakdar]

Gorlock, I think it would be very beneficial and fitting if you could post some summations about how to summon it here if you can. Don't worry if its a really long post-- it's really applicable and valuable here. I'd like to hear more about your research on it as well.

See the flow, here? Headhunters didn't even know they were flowing, but we all had it down anyway.

Ahhh, not trying strikes again.

[Mekoot Gorlock]

Working on getting better at flow is much easier on a 1 to 1 basis because it is a situational thing. It is hard to tell someone how to generalize it from a situation they haven't experienced it in, and if someone hasn't experienced it it is even harder unless I can gauge their reactions to what I am saying in person.

As far as research that I want to do:
I want to find new ways to quantify flow in a research setting. Right now a lot of flow research has moved into an industrial setting and enjoyment of the task has been all but removed from the definition. First I want to argue that none enjoyment flow state is different from enjoyable flow state even if the same ends are met. Secondly, Right now flow is coded from journals kept by the individuals in a study. It think that if a brain wave could be found that happens or increases during flow it would be a better way to quantify flow than journals that are written when the participants are interrupted from flow. I think than a fairly easy way to do this with college students would be to have students play video games while attached to brain wave monitors. Then also have them fill out journals that will be coded. The coding will be correlated with change in brainwave patterns. The key is that the participants are skilled at the games they are playing (like many college students and Halo or another first person shooter).

[Physic]

Thanks for the author Gorlock. I will be picking up some of his writings very soon.

[Mekoot Gorlock]

They are good books. I suggest sticking with the earlier publications. He first described flow after interviewing people who are accomplished in their fields. It ranged from doctors, to scientists, and artists. He took the aspects that they described when they accomplished some of their best work and put a name to it.

Also if people want to read more up to date and technical stuff stop by a university library and look up flow in their psycinfo database. You will get a lot of stuff about industrial settings and hopefully (after some digging) find something about sports.

[Derian]

I ran across this:

http://www.amazon.com/Flow-Sports-optim ... 0880118768

It might be worth checking out for $12.

[Loptr]

Now all we need to do is be able to call it up on demand.

This is beyond the scope of my lunch break.
There is a sicence called Neuro Associative Conditioning (NAC).
Basically your setting a trigger for yourself. When you find yourself in your "flow" create a trigger IE: a specific movement, word, etc. Example- I have a trigger where I touch my right thumb and middle finger and take a deep breath. I have linked this to truly intensly happy thoughts (the birth of my son, an unexpected visit from a dear friend etc). When I activate this trigger I am immediately in an amazingly good frame of mind.

This might sound hokey but I promise you setting triggers can be powerful. Part of the trick is to set you triggers at a peak moment and not muddy it with inopportune times.

Hope this makes sense..... Work becons.

A link I found that is relevant to what I am trying to describe.
http://www.darkwingchun.com/article.php?id=23

Loptr

[Arkin]

I like the idea of a trigger but shouldnt you try and have complete control. I personally would rather be able to go in and out of flow when ever I want. I know thats probable not realistic, but its my goal. Or is a trigger a good way to connect the dots so you can feel flow. Then when you have mastered it with a trigger then can you remove the trigger and still do it?

[Loptr]

I like the idea of a trigger but shouldnt you try and have complete control. I personally would rather be able to go in and out of flow when ever I want. I know thats probable not realistic, but its my goal. Or is a trigger a good way to connect the dots so you can feel flow. Then when you have mastered it with a trigger then can you remove the trigger and still do it?

Great question. My thought and experiences are activating a trigger can put me in the state on demand. It eventually wears off, but for me the trigger is a mechanism where I can access a specific state of being instantly.

Tapping into the flow may or may not work with this mechanism. But I am betting a properly anchored trigger would do that. The next logical step would seem that if you can create a proper trigger and can activate it and therefore reinforce and strengthen it (by being in the combat flow), I would argue that eventually the simple act of combat and being in the activity that is very similar to your trigger would likely put you into said zone by sympathetic reaction?

A different example of the flow for me. At one point I was an highly active cyclist both mtn bike and commuting. There have been many many times when I have been on a mtn bike ride where things were so technical and challenging that stopping to think would have caused me to not clear the challenge/obstacle. I didn't think or process the hazards I faced. I simply negotiated them and was already on line for the next obstacle in my path. A very Zen like state of "not being". When you get to a point of not actively thinking about what you're doing and just doing you sub conscious can take over. These things tie in with muscle memory and battle field awareness.

How do you create a trigger? This may be the crux of making a trigger to the flow (how do you stay in the flow of not thinking when you need to be conscious of it to create a trigger?). When you are in the state of being you want link you do the specific actions of your trigger. Example- At the moment my son was born and I was in an intensely positive mood I created a trigger/anchor. This one is touch the right thumb to my right ring finger, look up and take a deep calming breath. When I was/am in a similar space I reinforce the trigger by repeating the process. I had forgotten about this for years and tried it out to see if it still worked. This test was easily at least 5 years later probably closer to 10 yrs after creating my anchor. It was incredible one minute I was in a truly negative angry place and the next I was immediately in that wonderful state of mind.

Anyways, I hope this helps at least one person. It has reminded me of a trigger I need to refocus on and look for times to strengthen it.

Loptr

[Loptr]

In another thought here:

I am a big fan of Bruce Lee's book, The Tao of Jeek Kun Do.

This thread got me thinking and I read this recenlty on page 201.

In JKD, all technique is to be forgotten and the unconsious is to be left alone to handle the siuation. The technique will assert its wonders automatically or spontaneously. To float in totality, to have no technique, is to have all technique.

The knowledge and skill you have achieved are menat to be "forgotten" so you can float comfortably in emptiness, without obstruction. Learning is important but do not become its slave. Above all, do not harbor anything external and superflous- the mind is primary. Any technique, however worthy or desirable, becomes a disease when the mind is obsessed with it.

To me this means it is important to have the skill and technique. Learning these in their proper execution and body mechanic is critical. BUT, once you have learned it dont be looking for the "correct" opportunity to execute your move. In the fight turn of the thinking part of your brain and give the subconscious its reign.

Thoughts??

Loptr