Advancing Basic Shots video

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Advancing Basic Shots video

Postby Bhakdar » Wed Jan 28, 2009 7:00 pm

There's a new 'Advancing Basic Shots' primer on google video here:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 9688&hl=en

This video is aimed at beginning to intermediate fighters looking to understand basic shots and make their basic swings more effective.

Your comments and suggestions are welcome. Enjoy.
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Re: Advancing Basic Shots video

Postby bo1 » Thu Jan 29, 2009 12:59 pm

not bad stuff, i like that you integrated the flat grip to the set of skills. also you should elaborate on the 4 other shots from the flat grip position.
inside hip, shoulder drop( you showed this), the leg chop, and the shoulder flat grip wrap, plus the 3 favorite stabs while flat grip, shoulder pocket, arm pit, and hip pocket. . this way you demonstrate how you would engage with this grip for a period of a few seconds, instead of jus tthe one shot.
just my thoughts, maybe even a seperate video for flat grip fighting.
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Re: Advancing Basic Shots video

Postby p_quick » Thu Jan 29, 2009 1:37 pm

i see you are choking up on that sword now. =)

good stuff, you explained that stuff pretty well.

when you use that javvy you should show proper flo tech. stab with that. you were really really right hand dominant. but i agree with bo, you should get into the stabs a little more.
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Re: Advancing Basic Shots video

Postby p_quick » Thu Jan 29, 2009 1:49 pm

here is what Arthon said on the E-samurai board. I thought you would want to read it big man i think he really gave you good feed-back

I am commenting on his explanations, not on his fighting as I did not watch the sparring. Also, this is not a single sword video, it's a video about teaching the 'seven basic shots'. When he spars, he and his partner both have shields.

Caveat: I am only making negative comments now ... I will post about his positive aspects in a bit.

1) Leg Shot - Cypress did outside swing, Bkahdar did inside swing ... no talk about the why he made the change-up (except for making it more ‘vertical’).... no talk about footwork, or visual cues or body position – all important.
2) Hip Shot - when he drops, doesn't talk about body position (the need to not lean).
3) Wrap Shot - The mechanics of a wrap shot need a lot of exposition to throw it correctly. This was not given.
4) Drop Shot - needs to talk about range as well as height differentiations between opponents. Half the time, he's not doing a drop shot .. he's actually pulling back, then throwing the shot.
5) Shoulder Wrap – again not talking about the mechanics of how to throw the wrap … this is crucial. Also, he’s tall … needs to talk about how a shorter person could throw it. Really, doesn’t cover this one much at all.
6) Short Cross – Distance, distance, distance – crucial for this shot – not mentioned. Also not mentioned – he is attacking the strong part of his opponent’s blade .. needs to expound on why. This topic also only given cursory coverage.
7) High Cross – He high crossed inside Cypress’ sword when he first shows it (that’s weird and probably incorrect if I think about it)…. She, however, throws it outside his sword (which is the correct way). He does at least talk about how the high cross is a bad idea as a go-to shot.


So, not sure what a non-tall newbie would take away from his explanations. I think he's got some good ideas ... they need to be developed much, much more thoroughly. He really doesn't cover much in the way of shot technique, position, footwork, timing or distance. All are critical factors in throwing any of the shots he demo'd.

Oh, yeah ... forgot to mention the most important omission of all ... Any topic where you are trying to cover all of the basic shots should, of course, include the stab.

Arty

i didn't know if you read that board or not but i feel he really hit the nail on the head there. =)
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Re: Advancing Basic Shots video

Postby Winfang » Thu Jan 29, 2009 2:37 pm

Javelin fighting with no stabbing?! That's just weird. Also I've never fought with it up like that, too worried about a trust to the head by accident.

Here is a link to the thread on E-Sam:
http://www.electricsamurai.com/forums/v ... 942#383942
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Re: Advancing Basic Shots video

Postby Soo Ma Tai » Thu Jan 29, 2009 2:43 pm

Yeah, I always fought with tip down when doing jav. and sword. That way, it's not only easy to throw, the popstab is right there.
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Re: Advancing Basic Shots video

Postby Skitterzz » Thu Jan 29, 2009 2:55 pm

they need to be developed much, much more thoroughly. He really doesn't cover much in the way of shot technique, position, footwork, timing or distance. All are critical factors in throwing any of the shots he demo'd.


I think it would be pretty difficult to cover this in a video, might come off as nothing short of long winded. It's much much easier to do in person, with someone standing there to demonstrate for you, then critique your positioning on the spot to defeat bad habits.
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Re: Advancing Basic Shots video

Postby Brennon EH » Thu Jan 29, 2009 3:39 pm

Skitterzz wrote:I think it would be pretty difficult to cover this in a video, might come off as nothing short of long winded. It's much much easier to do in person, with someone standing there to demonstrate for you, then critique your positioning on the spot to defeat bad habits.



True, but you're trying to do distance learning. If everybody could train in person, this wouldn't be necessary.

I recommend smaller videos, maybe just one shot at a time, and really work the physical mechanics of it exhaustively. Stance, guard, movements, everything.
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Re: Advancing Basic Shots video

Postby Bhakdar » Fri Jan 30, 2009 4:18 pm

I appreciate the feedback. All the criticisms are generally true. I suppose it should be prefaced that this video was made very Belegarth-centric. A number of things that are basic in Amtgard I don't feel are basic in Belegarth b/c S&B is the standard newb training rather than single sword. (while it may not be 'right', its true)

Hopefully, this is still of some value to Belegarth beginner-intermediate despite a lot of specific science missing. As Belegarth's combat analysis is not nearly on the par of Amtgard's I would have no hope of producing a video so comprehensive as Arthon laid out without mentoring under some analytic Amtgarders for a while.

As best as I can boil it down, the most productive thing that could come of this thread and making this oh-so-scraping-the-iceburg video is that it would inspire more elaborative tutorials to be made covering the same basics and beyond. I imagine Bo and Peter could do a great job of translating this into Bel-Amt blend.

I considered covering stabbing and the slot shot, but opted out as in Belegarth, I think its simply not beginning level. While S&B is the standard Belegarth beginner, I think stabbing & slot shots shown to newbies in the compact form I made the video in would end up in lots of head shots.

Note I used the javie off-hand in the video to enable to viewer to have more visibility vs. my shield, not to show off my lack of stabbing with the left hand. The techniques were presented S&B, the sparring was meant to be S&B centric.

Also, Peter can you post the link to where this is discussed in the E-Sam forums? I'm registered but haven't frequented.
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Re: Advancing Basic Shots video

Postby bo1 » Fri Jan 30, 2009 5:06 pm

ya it did feel like people missed what you were going for. you produced a bisic shot list and some ways to advance those shots.

i have toyed with the idea of doing a comprehensive and exhaustive tutorial of fighting, but it would seriously take 30 hours of video and end up 10 hours long if it was able to be that short.
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Re: Advancing Basic Shots video

Postby p_quick » Fri Jan 30, 2009 6:31 pm

http://www.electricsamurai.com/forums/v ... hp?t=16563

here you go :)

for you tech heavy bel fighters you should take a look at the forum. not to discredit bhadar's vid or his teaching style but just so you can see what he is talking about when he says

"As Belegarth's combat analysis is not nearly on the par of Amtgard's I would have no hope of producing a video so comprehensive as Arthon laid out without mentoring under some analytic Amtgarders for a while."

there is lot of good info on that thread and all over their board. so take a look

and then maybe you will consider going to SKBC and learning something. :devil:

GO TO SKBC!!!
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Re: Advancing Basic Shots video

Postby Winfang » Sat Jan 31, 2009 10:48 am

Since I don't fight too similar to you guys with Amt-influences, I'm going to try something like this as well. The methodology that I'm going to use is video tape a day of fighting for me, then analyze it and break down my shots, and do demos of my shots.
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Re: Advancing Basic Shots video

Postby p_quick » Sat Jan 31, 2009 1:54 pm

give it a try fang. you should go back an voice over what you thing needs to be seen as well, if you want it to be used as a teaching tool.
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Re: Advancing Basic Shots video

Postby Skitterzz » Sat Jan 31, 2009 2:38 pm

I think doing voiceover is probably a better idea, you can script it and be 100% sure of what you need to say. :goblin:
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Re: Advancing Basic Shots video

Postby p_quick » Sat Jan 31, 2009 2:43 pm

exactly
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Re: Advancing Basic Shots video

Postby varadin » Mon Feb 02, 2009 10:27 am

Winfang wrote:Since I don't fight too similar to you guys with Amt-influences, I'm going to try something like this as well. The methodology that I'm going to use is video tape a day of fighting for me, then analyze it and break down my shots, and do demos of my shots.


If you need a amazing human hitting thing hit me up. That and i can help you with editing and such
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Re: Advancing Basic Shots video

Postby Winfang » Mon Feb 02, 2009 12:22 pm

Well I did some fighting this weekend with Casey, the KSU Dag group, and Tinman. I've got about an hour worth of fighting taped. I'm going to try to get some more before I do mine.
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Re: Advancing Basic Shots video

Postby varadin » Mon Feb 02, 2009 1:11 pm

Winfang wrote:the KSU Dag group


baby seals don't fight back that is just not fair
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Re: Advancing Basic Shots video

Postby Winfang » Mon Feb 02, 2009 2:45 pm

That's where I was trying out single sword.
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Re: Advancing Basic Shots video

Postby Bhakdar » Fri Feb 06, 2009 5:07 pm

The progress of this is great, guys. Yes, its true that taping a bunch, then making an outline and voiceover is the most comprehensive way to go. From personal experience, it is also as time consuming as a real full time job. So if you want to make it professional- do it and enjoy.

The video I posted took a grand total of less than 7 hours start to finish including outlining, filming, editing, digitizing. The last videos I did for the published CD took months. It's a whole different ballgame depending on what end result you're going for. Just a heads up.

All that said-- Yes, Bo I would love to see the exhaustive real deal made sometime-- maybe it will come following SKBC this year and be able to embrace multiple combat systems also.
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