Losing Focus in Melees

[The Great Gigsby]

I could use some help here. I've been fighting in Amt and Bel pretty regularly for about seven years, but I'm only an average lefty fighter. I've got the vocab and the knowledge, I'm just not that great at practicing it. Also, I've sort of plateaued due to isolation and from lacking the discipline to improve as a fighter, but I'm attempting to break through that wall.

In one on one and small group situations, I'm at the top of my game. I feel cool and in control; I can predict the flow of the fight and if I * up, I can figure out what went wrong and aim to fix it. My biggest problem is in larger battles, say fifty or more to a side. The smaller the scale, the more confident I feel, but with large battles, I completely lose my head. I'm more secure in a large amtgard ditch where everyone's flanking or throwing cross shots at light-speed. In a typical Belegarth battle, I'm asleep before the lines even clash, and when they do, I don't know where I should be or what my target is.

Typically, I'm fighting with a pole on the far left flank. I'll be able to gank three or five people before the flank folds or scatters, leaving me vulnerable without a shield to fight by. And the whole time, I have no focus. I literally get tunnel-vision and can't see the arrow that's flying straight at my face, or the enemy shieldman that's only 25 feet to my diagonal. I'm confident that if I could just control the adrenaline a little better and not get so mixed up in these battles that my kill count (and lifespan) would multiply. I just don't know how to regain that perspective that I normally have in a one on one fight.

As a bonus question, is it even appropriate for a polearm to be on the flank? I'm a very offensive person and honestly, I feel safer and more in control on the flank than in the center crush. I notice that after I attack, the faster shieldmen (on my side) occasionally outpace me, leaving a second of lag time between us, and that one second is usually when me or my shieldbuddy gets run down.

[Michael]

Polearms trade defensive characteristics for greater range and power on offense. In team situations this often is very advantageous since the pole can gather sizable passive defense from other fighters around him. In the middle of the line this is especially pronounced. The board men in the middle are movement limited and therefore both provide better passive defense and can often spare active defensive effort since the enemies across from them are also movement limited.

On the flank, poles have the same characteristics but they are more limited. The boardmen on the flank are busy flanking (or they should be). This means the pole has to move with them to enjoy their passive defense or the pole and board will have to agree (at least tacitly) for the pole to do more attacking and the board more defense. Good poles can certainly be of value on an aggressive flank, especially when there is conscious cooperation between the pole and at least one board. As with all flanking, position is king. Often a pole greater range means the pole man can start turning the opponents on the flank earlier than a boarder might.

This is not the best use of poles on the flank though. The best use of poles on the flank is on the posted flank. By posted flank I mean the flank that is being pushed by the enemy harder than they can push back. There are specific times when a flank might be posted and it’s rarely the preferred choice. Since we have a preponderance of right handed people the right flank is almost always the strong flank. Boardmen on the right have their boards pointing into the mass of the fight while flanking giving them passive defense in that direction. This is especially significant with missile weapons. This means that the right flank is better able to make a strong push. It also often means that the enemy will put his best people on the right flank to make that push even better.

The result is that left flanks are often posted. A pole on the left flank, not the outside man, but one or two in, is devastating. The right flanking opponents are coming into range by choice as they flank. The pole also has the greater range to provide some threat on enemies as the start to turn the corner without over exposing as much as a boardman would by turning to deal with the threat. Again this effect can be greatly enhanced by conscious cooperation between the pole and one or more boardmen, with the pole providing the offense, often by legging or shield breaking attackers, while the boarders keep everyone alive and do what they an to slow the enemy advance. When things go perfect, the posted left flank can break the opponents flank altogether but even delaying it is often enough for your hard right flank to get through and curl the enemy into a very dangerous position.

Finally, if you have impassible terrain, (a wall for example) anchoring the left flank and the poles on that flank against it provides significant advantage.

[Roland Demox]

Polearms on a flank are a great idea, so long as you quickly crush the that flank and turn.

I honestly know what your going through I went through it with other sports (not related to foam fighting so feel free to disregard). What helped me was what you might typically hear. Just take a second and breath. If you feel your heart rate start to increase then conciously calm it down. Breathing too heavily? control your breathing YOU be in control of your body. This helped me alot, having my coach punch me in the helmet if I lost focus kinda helped too.

[Slagar]

Honestly, this is one of the things that Book of 5 Rings really helped with. At Okfest, I kicked * in tourneys and small fights, but fell apart on the large field. I was *really* frustrated over this, and it's part of the reason I bothered to buy and read the book. The sections about mental control, especially, as he puts it, "becoming new", were very useful for me. Just a suggestion.

[The Great Gigsby]

thank you for posting that, Michael. It's a lot to think about and process. I'd never thought about the pushing power of a flank being relative to the direction the shields are facing. Because the left flank is being posted in most cases, it's probably why I tend to feel like my side's getting overrun. It also probably explains why half my teammates decide to scatter when the going gets tough.

I usually position myself close to the inside of a flank because I like to bump and grind a bit more and because I have a greater survival rate there.

Slagar, thanks for the recommendation. I've skimmed through 5 Rings before, but never took it that seriously. I'll try to find time in the next month to really chew it over.

[Peanut of Loderia]

Coming from a unit that uses alot of spears, I know the devastating power they can bring to bear on opponents. As stated already, the psychological impact is enormous. Shieldman hate face off against spearmen since they have a hard time getting into range, and they have to pay attention to their legs, which we all jsut disregard in favor of awesome kill shots

In all seriousness, though, grab a shieldman, or two if you can manage, and ask them to stick with you. I know as a middle range fighter at best I love protecting spearmen since they keep me alive. And I'm usually on the posted flank so I love them doubly so.

[Juicer]

I heart flanking with a spear. A mobile spear can be devastating especially when combined with an effective mobile shieldman. Find a buddy you've fought with and against before, someone who knows your style and you know theirs. Train with them. Work on opening up shots for each other. For example, Dyse and I used to (and still do sometimes) run around tearing up flanks because we know how the other fights. Work on fighting on either side of the shield, and make sure your buddy knows where you are so he can open up the opponent's shield for you and vise-versa. Also, this should help with being more focused, because it gives you a consistent short-term goal: Stick with your buddy. The more you work together, the more in tune you'll be to each others movements.

[Michael]

If you find yourself fighting against a pair like Jucier describes, make * sure not to try to stop them one at a time. Use at least two coordinated figthers against them. This is a particularly obvious case where the best way to stop them flanking you is to flank them harder and faster. A smart well coordinated pole/board duo on the flank is dangerous but you usually have at least one person with the foot speed to out flank them since one person moves much quicker than two. (although note he has to move a good bit further to flank them.)

[Tex]

I used to have the same problem when I was practicing traditional martial arts. I'd get in the ring and panic. One of my Masters suggested meditation and awareness excersizes. Just sit in a quiet place, close your eyes and practice sensing or being aware of everything around you, try to take in as much information as you can with out using your eyes and when you're just walking around doing your daily erands practice observing as much of your environment as possible.
It sounds kinda stupid, but doing this really helped me in my one on one matches as well as belegarth field fights when combined with body and mind control. When you do it right everything kinda slows down and it takes the edge off the panic in a battle. Then you can focus on taking aim and kicking *

[ShadowSwept]

I used to have the same problem when I was practicing traditional martial arts. I'd get in the ring and panic. One of my Masters suggested meditation and awareness excersizes. Just sit in a quiet place, close your eyes and practice sensing or being aware of everything around you, try to take in as much information as you can with out using your eyes and when you're just walking around doing your daily erands practice observing as much of your environment as possible.
It sounds kinda stupid, but doing this really helped me in my one on one matches as well as belegarth field fights when combined with body and mind control. When you do it right everything kinda slows down and it takes the edge off the panic in a battle. Then you can focus on taking aim and kicking *

Situational awareness will help out emensely in large scale battles. If you practice it off the field, it will come natually on the field. Remember, with anything, you're only half as good in action as you are on your best day of practice.

[BBBlitz]

i don't think this will be advice or anything but in bigger battles as mentioned i have been on every angle of this and the thing that * me of the most is when I'm using a pole arm and my board man seem to get cought up in the moment and runs off after some one or redirects to a mass that i cannot respond to I'm left alone and vulnerable i can sometimes kill a few stragglers but i am no longer of any use to the battle because i can no longer protect a flan or flan someone else at that point i will probably die in the next 60 sec so to ALL sword and board people out there reading this if you find yourself next to a pole arm man stick close to him both of you will benefit greatly even in very small battle you will clean up nicely

P.S. for the advice have you tried to hold a short sword in your off hand to deal with people who get to close while alone if not try it some time its now perfect but it helps

[The Great Gigsby]

A smart well coordinated pole/board duo on the flank is dangerous but you usually have at least one person with the foot speed to out flank them since one person moves much quicker than two.

Yeah, I see this happen constantly on the posted flank, but honestly I've never worried much about that guy because there's usually someone on my team just as eager to outflank.

Juicer, I've seen you really tear **** up with a spear, and you're what I would consider a good example of aggressive polework. No offense meant by this, but it seems like part of what makes you so effective is that nobody takes you all that seriously. You appear to be one of the least threatening people in a fight.

for the advice have you tried to hold a short sword in your off hand to deal with people who get to close while alone

I've flirted with an offhand weapon in the past, but I've yet to find a setup that doesn't hamper my effectiveness at my optimal range. Plus, I'm fast and squirrelly enough that I'd rather retreat and recoup than fight at an obvious range disadvantage.

Thanks everyone for all the feedback so far. It's all useful.

[BBBlitz]

I've flirted with an offhand weapon in the past, but I've yet to find a setup that doesn't hamper my effectiveness at my optimal range. Plus, I'm fast and squirrelly enough that I'd rather retreat and recoup than fight at an obvious range disadvantage.

ya I stoped doing it to just thought someone else might be able to pull it of it helps surviving a bit but it was too much of a hassle

[Michael]

Bbblitz, I agree with you but since poles gain so much from partnering with a good board, I think it’s usually worth making such team-ups more than just tacit. Find a shield who is willing to work with you and stick to him or her. Lining up behind the best shield man you can find near a flank will get you some kills but if you haven’t gotten agreement about working together, you can’t be too surprised when he or she runs off after some other goal.

On the more general topic of flanking and counter flanking, the use of flankers then counter flankers to try and flank the flankers and the opponent responds in kind you see a phenomenon that most of us are very familiar with. Battles tend to expand to each side. Battles continue to expand to each side until one of two things happens. First the line may get so spread out that a seam develops and one team or the other will use the seam to ‘flank’ through the middle. Of course, this is the most dangerous place to flank but if you get through the damage caused to the enemy is very high. The center where they have the highest concentration of fighters is put into danger and is likely to react poorly to the chaos, increasing the danger. Second, one or both flanks may encounter impassible terrain. If that happens then instead of trying to win that flank by positioning, you have to do it by brute force. As I mentioned before, these situations make poles exceptionally effective.

[Juicer]

Juicer, I've seen you really tear **** up with a spear, and you're what I would consider a good example of aggressive polework. No offense meant by this, but it seems like part of what makes you so effective is that nobody takes you all that seriously. You appear to be one of the least threatening people in a fight.

Thanks, and none taken. It's partially what I aim for when using a spear. I like to downplay my presence so they focus more of their attention on the "bigger" threats, which inevitably opens up more shots for me. I'm of the school of thought that constantly stabbing the **** out of everything, while effective in its own right, makes a good pole a dead pole. Fast. I personally prefer to only stab when it's beneficial to the kill. Whether I'm going for a body shot, arm snipe, leg, or just a shield pin, I pick my targets and strike where the opening is or will be. Being aware of your teammates and/or having a shield buddy that you've practiced with helps with this.

[BBBlitz]

Although I usually use red or sward and board, I have so much fun picking up a pole arm and really taking away the hope form people. When thy realize my partner will never let them get in close... o yes the anguish

[Kyrian]

I know I'm resurrecting a dead thread but I finally was able to collect my thoughts on the subject.

Like anything else we do, I’ve found that the main way to develop large-scale melee awareness is to practice it and to train with the specific goal of improving it. That can be a real challenge especially when you don’t have an opportunity to see, much less participate in, battles with over 100 per side. While I think I’ve gotten much better at large-scale field awareness, I still do have moments when I suffer from information overload.

One way I’ve learned to overcome this is by being an archer. As an archer, I’m now responsible for covering a much large area, not simply the area in my forward field of view. I can’t afford to suffer from tunnel vision or else I’ll get charged by a melee fighter or countersniped by an enemy archer. What works for me is what I call, for lack of better terms, perception prioritization or perception focus. It’s not possible to focus on everything so I consciously make an effort to focus only on the things that matter to me. As an archer, these are:

1) Enemy archers and potentially javelins, depending on how close I am to the line.
2) Wave motion. I’ll go into that more in just a bit.
3) Gaps.
4) Leaders/Power fighters/power units

1) Enemy archers are pretty straightforward. They would just as well kill you before you kill them. I need to know where the other archers are and figure out whether they’re planning a firing solution on me or my teammates. They also represent a potentially unseen threat as they can kill me outside of my local field of view. If I end up close to the line, javelins can also be an issue even if they don’t actually kill me. A javelin flying towards me can cause me to dodge and lose my shot or actually hit my bow or arrow.

2) Wave motion is how I characterize the ebb and flow of the battle—where the potential breakthroughs may occur, where the large masses or small groups of people are moving, and where the lines are holding. As an analogy, when waves hit a beach during a windy day, there are different pockets of movement hitting the beach with seemingly no recognizable patterns especially when you look at a small section of the beach. However, if you step back and start looking at larger and larger chunks of the beach, you start to discern patterns such as waves crashing at the same spot due to an abrupt change in the depth of the sea floor.

I believe this is the key to maintaining focus in a large melee. It may seem counter-intuitive but if you stop looking at all of the individual engagements and instead start looking at the larger picture and how the “waves” are developing, you no longer have to keep watching everything.

In addition, I will divide the battle line into the left, right, and center. Now, instead of looking at lots of individual engagements, I’m looking at three different sections of the battle and that dramatically reduces the amount of information I have to process. Typically as a field battle develops, you’ll see things happen either on the flanks or in the center. My thought process will go something like this: "left needs reinforcing--gaps in the center--watch those gaps--right is holding--right is starting to budge--need some reinforcing on the right--breakthrough on far right flank--right flank is collapsing--need to shift over to support--can't get there in time--need to move and let everyone know."

3) Gaps are often the means for exploiting the opponent’s line. There may be gaps due to people shifting or because one or two power fighters are occupying at least twice their number. Less experienced fighters will tend to clump creating these gaps that can be exploited by aggressive action. The ideal is not giving the enemy gaps to go through or doing it intentionally to bait them while forcing them to create gaps for you to take advantage of. Those gaps are the bane of archers as they’re often the “highways” to rush the archers and either run them down or at least disrupt their firing process.

4) The importance of power fighters and power units to your thought process can’t be emphasized enough. These are individuals or units that can really affect the outcome of the battle due to their high skill level and often, high mobility, as well as groups of fighters who are very good at fighting together. A power unit can wreak major havoc as they move through and gimp or kill the fighters around them. Skilled and vocal leaders can reinforce and shift forces as needed as well as inspire the troops.

As an exercise, if you’re on the sidelines taking a break, try watching the battles as an objective observer. After a while, you should start to see the patterns of how the lines meet, where the breakthroughs occur, and most importantly, why they occur. You can also start wargaming these in your head. For example, if you see a gap develop, consider how you would exploit that gap and who you would send. A strong line unit probably wouldn’t be the best group to take advantage of that but a high-mobility skirmishing unit would cause a lot of havoc once it got through the line. Also, if you can, try to get on higher ground to observe the battles. It’s why you normally saw commanders on horses and the highest ground they could find—it gave you the largest field of view possible.

Unit battles tend to be a somewhat different animal than field battles since you have “blobs” of people moving around the battlefield either to avoid another group or to actively engage a group quickly. You will see the “waves” develop but normally on a smaller scale and, by their nature, the battles tend to be much more chaotic. Also, many engagements tend to take place at the edges of the battlefield where a unit can use the edge of the world as an impenetrable and unflankable barrier. I think the general chain of thought is, if you’re a smaller unit, to avoid all of the larger units or try to draw them into engaging each other while trying to conserve your strength until you mop up at the end.

Much of this leads to deciding where you'll be the most effective and a big part of that is your own self-awareness. If you like to run, then taking advantage of gaps or skirmishing is probably where you want to be. If you like the line, then supporting a section of the line is most likely your best bet.

Hope this helps.

[Arrakis]

Hell of a post, Kyrian. *reads it again*

[bo1]

thats my XO, always thinking and sharing the knowledge.

[Kyrian]

Giggles,

If you'd like, we could talk more about this at Chaos. The basic principles are the same, regardless of the scale of the battles.

[Titan G]

i know nothing about polearms other than they mostly die easy, but you did say something about having trouble with the ease of access for an off hand weapon. i remember a while back forkbeard was droning on and on like he does, it's his thing. but he mentioned that he has some kind of pvc joint things that hold his off weapons perfectly, can attach to a belt, and are easy to pull off when the rush comes.

[Poo]

i know nothing about polearms other than they mostly die easy, but you did say something about having trouble with the ease of access for an off hand weapon. i remember a while back forkbeard was droning on and on like he does, it's his thing. but he mentioned that he has some kind of pvc joint things that hold his off weapons perfectly, can attach to a belt, and are easy to pull off when the rush comes.

polearms dying easily? try fighting chicken. armor, sidearm, buckler. good luck buddy. The problems with drawing a sidearm go away as soon as you just hold it in your hand while using your pole. Doesn't hamper your fighting much, and you don't have to worry about drawing it...

Even not being the best fighter, i get tons of kills with my sidearm when people think they can charge me and get away with it. Also, watch axgar's vids from skbc. I use tons of that stuff. Try running me, and i choke way up and stab you in the * as hard as i possibly can. Not that i'm proud of it, but i've made plenty of people on my practice field take an extended break after i've pulled that and caught em in the gut.... with my nice spear.

Edit: Spelling

[Nikola the Bear-hat]

Try running me, and i choke way up and stab you in the * as hard as i possibly can.

sigged, with help from experience

[The Great Gigsby]

I figured I should give an update, since people are still interested.

Overall, I was pleased with a lot of the progress and improvements I made at Chaos XIII and am getting the urge to really up my game. I got a chance to chat with Kyrian at lunch for about 30 minutes, and he had some very useful things to say.

Here are some concepts that made a huge difference to me:

1. Don't be a hero. Find the best shield on your team and work together. It's really incredible when a solid shield and pole can work together without tangling each other up. Plus, you have the advantage of being able to observe up close how a better/more experienced fighter works. I learned so much just by following people like Moses, Cyric, Par, Elerosse, and Ed the Dread. I learned what not to do by sticking with the chumps.

2. Keep your eyes open and have a plan. Always be watching for arrows (they're not that hard to dodge if you're paying attention). More important than knowing where your enemies are is knowing where your teammates are. Sometimes you can do more damage by posting and waiting for your flankers or center line to draw focus, giving you a stronger angle of attack.

3. Be mindful of potential threats. Several times something would catch my attention, a flanker, a teammate about to get pounded, an archer looking my way... and I would set it aside to focus on something more pressing. What happens? The flanker stabs me in the back, my teammate gets a beating, and I get an arrow in the face. If I had chosen instead to act on those threats instead of ignoring them, I would have stood a much greater chance of surviving.

4. Move. Constantly and efficiently. It will let you see the field from different angles, and you can be more helpful to your teammates.

5. Using a spear is all about angles and controlling distance. If you can't find a good angle to attack from, then focus on threatening your opponents, battering their shields and spears, and tying them up until your team can push through. Don't throw shots just because

6. Communicate. Don't tell people what to do unless you're certain you know what you're talking about, but do warn your team if they're about to get backstabbed or arrow'd, let them know if you're gonna split or slow down, and do ask for help when you need it.

7. Embrace the toilet bowl of death. Yes it's crappy, but if people insist on swirling, just go with the flow and punish those who don't.