Becoming The Best

[Dabbanoth]

What, to all of you, makes someone the best fighter on the feild? No names, just ideal abilities etc.

[Roland Demox]

Do you mean solely fighting prowess or all around including character

[Dabbanoth]

On the feild.

[Roland Demox]

I feel through observations that quick feet and hands mixed with good technical footwork can make somebody an exceptional fighter.

[Brennon EH]

In order of importance:
Desire
Drive
Intelligence

Everything else is derived from these three. Without these three, there are no great fighters.

[p_quick]

No names, just ideal abilities etc.

no names, i mean i'm flattered but i don't think that is what dag wants here.

but i agree with some of what you have said. But i believe it has more to do with being able to manipulate your opponent to put them in predictable situations, and having good reading skills, body mechanics, timing, distancing, and knowing how to block and properly return.

and one the field i believe what makes a good fighter is a good awarness of your surroundings.

A good crowd fighter needs to have the ability to control the tempo of the fight and force the group you are fighting to move where you want it to and swing when you want them to. this has mostly to do with maintaining specific distances between you and select portions of the crowd. letting you isolate small groups or individuals in that crowd.

[p_quick]

In order of importance:
Desire
Drive
Intelligence

Everything else is derived from these three. Without these three, there are no great fighters.

well spoken Brennon

[p_quick]

http://www.electricsamurai.com/forums/v ... 556#389556

Dag i hope you don't mind but i thought it would be helpfull for you to read what these guys have to say along with what people here have to say.

[Roland Demox]

No names, just ideal abilities etc.

no names, i mean i'm flattered but i don't think that is what dag wants here.

but i agree with some of what you have said. But i believe it has more to do with being able to manipulate your opponent to put them in predictable situations, and having good reading skills, body mechanics, timing, distancing, and knowing how to block and properly return.

and one the field i believe what makes a good fighter is a good awarness of your surroundings.

A good crowd fighter needs to have the ability to control the tempo of the fight and force the group you are fighting to move where you want it to and swing when you want them to. this has mostly to do with maintaining specific distances between you and select portions of the crowd. letting you isolate small groups or individuals in that crowd.

Fixed

Sorry I thought it would make it easier to understand what I was talking about. Sometimes people mistake quickness and speed alot.

[p_quick]

np dewd i see what you are saying.

and sorry if i steped on your toes. i just re-iterated what dag wanted. wasn't trying to be a *

[BattleChrist]

In order of importance:
Desire
Drive
Intelligence

Everything else is derived from these three. Without these three, there are no great fighters.

Having desire/drive doesn't make you a good fighter, it can lead to helping you get better but doesn't make you good.

[Derian]

If you're talking 'best on the field at a given moment', I'm not sure I can help there, but if you're talking 'best fighter', I would say that a (constant) drive to be better than you are now instead of better than others is a good start.

[Vak]

If you're talking 'best on the field at a given moment', I'm not sure I can help there, but if you're talking 'best fighter', I would say that a (constant) drive to be better than you are now instead of better than others is a good start.

I would have to agree with that for sure.

Its easy to compare yourself with other fighters in the sport, but in the end its more your personal development. If you try and improve your personal fighting style or improve in places you feel you are weak rather than trying to "be like mike" you will see more leaps in your perceived skills.

[Bhakdar]

Being lefty, lanky, and athletic are all good starters. And 2 out of 3 you can train to be if you aren't born that way!

[BattleChrist]

I guess im pretty much set then

[Kel]

In mass battles, battlefield awareness trumps all other characteristics? Or maybe the ability to inspire aggression in newbies. 3 (or any number of) lazy noobs is easy, 3 noobs aggressive and marginally cooperating can be deadly.

These may not make you the individual accomplishment best, but best in terms of helping team towards victory, yes! I consider this to be a better benchmark for individual accomplishment anyway, but that is a personal preference.

[Cyric]

I have always thought that being a good fighter involves being able to use multiple weapon styles. I would say that a person who can arch, use a red, fight Florentine and sword and board effectively is a better fighter than someone who can just use one style, even if they're really good with it.
Being able to lead troops or at least organize the people on your team is also necessary.

[Kerb]

In order of importance:
Desire
Drive
Intelligence

Everything else is derived from these three. Without these three, there are no great fighters.

Having desire/drive doesn't make you a good fighter, it can lead to helping you get better but doesn't make you good.

So I have to ask, what do you expect to make someone the best fighter that is not derived from Desire and or Drive?

[Alunsun]

Facial hair

[bo1]

more over a mustache. a big one.

also not having a girlfriend helps, they just suck your life away.
a job gets in the way as well, but a part time one is acceptable.
also it helps to have a warrant in several states. not sure why.
have an ego the size of alaska, this is required to reach the top.
tell everyone that you are the best.


these are just some obeservations

[Soo Ma Tai]

1. Instinctive Basic skills, blocking and striking.
2. Field Awareness
3. Controlling the Gap.
4. Economy of Motion
5. No fear of Death.

I would say that these things are the most important to being a good all around fighter.

Oh yes, and a big ole Mustache!

[Slagar]

In order of importance:
Desire
Drive
Intelligence

Everything else is derived from these three. Without these three, there are no great fighters.

QFT.

The fighters that climb the ranks the fastest are the ones who want to, and who do what it takes to get better. The more you put in, the more you get out. Practice, work out, study, repeat. There are no short-cuts, there are no magic words. Just do the work. The guys who do this may not already be the top-level vets, but they get there, every time. No name-dropping, but it's pretty obvious looking around the field who's done their homework, and who skipped their workouts.

Also, be left-handed. Can't top that.

[bo1]

Also, be left-handed. Can't top that.

really, how is your shoulder. hehe

[Slagar]

Yeah, I'm adjusting those straps before I see you next. *.

[Hurin]

I dont think the straps will help... Bo's will is enough to kill you

[Sir Anastasia]

Best on the Field:
1) Personal Honor
2) Attitude
3) Speed and Accuracy
4) Footwork
5) Awareness and the ability to "be in the right spot at the right time."

Honestly though, 1 and 2 are required for the full respect associated with having 3,4, and 5. Without 1 and 2, you will always be just a jackass and not a respected fighter. I think very highly of those that pursue excellence in this sport and that dedication should also be met with respect.
-Anastasia of Chamonix

[Slagar]

Nah, I've usually got this. He kept doing this really annoying thing, though, where he'd fake a chop to pull my shield over, then cross to my shoulder. My teardrop's straps are too high, so he kept getting the shot. God, I hate that shot.

[MeleeMoses]

Having fun make you a better fighter

[Dane]

He kept doing this really annoying thing, though, where he'd fake a chop to pull my shield over, then cross to my shoulder.

You should practice that shot. I bet you could kill a lot of people with it.

[BattleChrist]

In order of importance:
Desire
Drive
Intelligence

Everything else is derived from these three. Without these three, there are no great fighters.

Having desire/drive doesn't make you a good fighter, it can lead to helping you get better but doesn't make you good.

So I have to ask, what do you expect to make someone the best fighter that is not derived from Desire and or Drive?

He wasn't asking how to become the best fighter he wanted to know what makes the best fighter the best. Desire/drive are things you need to become the best but they are not what makes you the best at any given moment.

[p_quick]

He wasn't asking how to become the best fighter he wanted to know what makes the best fighter the best. Desire/drive are things you need to become the best but they are not what makes you the best at any given moment.

I disagree

[BattleChrist]

I disagree

Any reason why?

[p_quick]

because if you don't have desire or the drive you will never be the best. for any moment.

[BattleChrist]

because if you don't have desire or the drive you will never be the best. for any moment.

I don't disagree with needing desire and drive to get good, I know that's what you have to have if you hope to improve. All I'm saying is that when just looking at how good someone is drive and desire aren't what defines it. when I first started I really wanted to get good and I busted my * to get better but just because I had the desire/drive didn't change the fact that I was bad.

[p_quick]

but the desire is where it started. later you need the intelligences to learn from those better then you and creatively come up with solutions to problems that you face

[BattleChrist]

True but he wasn't asking how to become the best he just wants to know what makes someone the best not what made them the best

[p_quick]

i see what you are saying, i think maybe we both look at this differently and we both aren't altogether wrong or right.

But yea i see what you mean,

[Kerb]

He wasn't asking how to become the best fighter he wanted to know what makes the best fighter the best. Desire/drive are things you need to become the best but they are not what makes you the best at any given moment.

So do you believe that the fighter that becomes the best can just put away his/her desire and drive and still function as the best?
I highly disagree with you if you feel that is true. If you no longer have desire and drive then you will be swept right off that podium by pretty much anyone that does. Even the top or best fighters must retain their drive and desire or they risk losing that acclaim by those that have it.
The question becomes, what level of these attributes must the Best Fighter maintain to in turn maintain his/her status as the best? That is where you have to think about it, and really the answer is almost impossible to put on paper because it is defined by all the others that play and the levels they have of these same things.

[BattleChrist]

So do you believe that the fighter that becomes the best can just put away his/her desire and drive and still function as the best?
I highly disagree with you if you feel that is true. If you no longer have desire and drive then you will be swept right off that podium by pretty much anyone that does. Even the top or best fighters must retain their drive and desire or they risk losing that acclaim by those that have it.
The question becomes, what level of these attributes must the Best Fighter maintain to in turn maintain his/her status as the best? That is where you have to think about it, and really the answer is almost impossible to put on paper because it is defined by all the others that play and the levels they have of these same things.

It's like what p_quick said i think you are misinterpreting what i said or at least why i say that. Drive and desire are motivators that keep you good or lead to your improvement, they are not what makes you good. Think of them as a catalyst to improving your skill. They help you get better but they are not what define your skill.

[varadin]

But if you dont continue to want to fight well you wont have skill. Desire and drive are always part of it. The guys who are good and go out there one day just not into it get punked a lot.

[Michael]

So in preparing my course materials for Tourney Fu (insert SKBC plug here), I talked to almost every Amtgard sword knight. I know Amtgard is a different game but the similarities are high enough to be valuable. The number one way to improve brought up by the vast majority and agreed on by even those who didn’t bring it up is practice. If you are fighting 3-4 times a week you are on track. The second most common response (although not nearly as universal) was fighting a variety of opponents. This usually requires a fair bit of travel. Several posters above have short handed these ideas into desire and drive.

All the essential physical skills like footwork, speed, placement or reaction and all the essential mental skills like combat awareness, ability to read opponents, and confidence are best honed by use. Thus practice and then practice more.

I know that like some other posts here this one may approach your question from the oblique but in my view its worth restating.

[Kerb]

It's like what p_quick said i think you are misinterpreting what i said or at least why i say that. Drive and desire are motivators that keep you good or lead to your improvement, they are not what makes you good. Think of them as a catalyst to improving your skill. They help you get better but they are not what define your skill.

Actually I do understand what you are trying to say. I believe you are trying to say that drive and desire are useful tools that can elevate a persons skill but not what makes them the best.
As I said, I disagree with you. As I believe they are not a catalyst so much as they are a solid base with which to build upon, once you have built your building, you can't just for-go having the base of it. While yes they are rather vague definitions, keeping them vague allows you to define many skills and attributes as a part of them (ie the next layers in your building after the solid base).

I have a question for you, what do you feel makes someone the best? So far you have told us that you don't feel that it is drive and desire, so what do you feel that it is? If you don't mind me asking.

[Alunsun]

Regardless of what you have, what you need is the two F'S:

Footwork and Facial Hair

Discuss

[Kerb]

Regardless of what you have, what you need is the two F'S:

Footwork and Facial Hair

Discuss

What is this... foot...work... nonsense you speak of?

[BattleChrist]

Actually I do understand what you are trying to say. I believe you are trying to say that drive and desire are useful tools that can elevate a persons skill but not what makes them the best.
As I said, I disagree with you. As I believe they are not a catalyst so much as they are a solid base with which to build upon, once you have built your building, you can't just for-go having the base of it. While yes they are rather vague definitions, keeping them vague allows you to define many skills and attributes as a part of them (ie the next layers in your building after the solid base).

I have a question for you, what do you feel makes someone the best? So far you have told us that you don't feel that it is drive and desire, so what do you feel that it is? If you don't mind me asking.

I don't see them as a base because they are not something you mold your skills from they are just a way to help you mold your skills.

To be the best person on the fired in my opinion you need to be quick and be able to know what shot to throw and when. You need good footwork and body movement to be able to fake people out. You need to have good field awareness, being able to read situation and manipulate the other team. You need to be able to develop strategy's and change them as necessary to keep your team in the fight. the last thing would probably be good leadership skills to put your team in the best position possible and keeping them together in any situation. To be the best on the field at any given time I think you need to be the best at all of these.

[Michael]

I don't see them as a base because they are not something you mold your skills from they are just a way to help you mold your skills.

My view of drive and dedication is closer to Kerb’s. They are the base that leads you to practice enough to build skills. They are more than just a way to help mold skill, at least in terms of being the ‘best’. They are critically necessary precursors to the real physical and mental attributes you mention. You might improve those physical and mental attributes without high drive and determination but never enough to be the ‘best’.

I can understand thinking that the answer ‘drive and determination’ doesn’t go deep enough into the original question but I am firmly convinced that the desire to excel and the willingness to strive for that desire are in fact the most important elements.

I think of it this way. Imagine a completely unguided fighter who doesn’t read this board or have anyone to help him understand how to get better. Hypothetically, this guy really loves foam swinging and wants to be the best he can to the point he goes to practice three times a week, he is doing footwork (albeit totally untutored footwork) as he walks down the sidewalk, he is talking shop with all his buddies in the car and basically epitomizes drive and determination. If he’s doing all these things, he will be pretty good, pretty soon and continue to improve as long as he keeps doing them.

On the other hand if our fighter was very well guided but not especially motivated and driven, he would know where he needed to improve, he would take instruction from the best fighters in Belegarth and he would improve some but I would always put my money on the first fighter.

[Kerb]

I don't see them as a base because they are not something you mold your skills from they are just a way to help you mold your skills.

To be the best person on the fired in my opinion you need to be quick and be able to know what shot to throw and when. You need good footwork and body movement to be able to fake people out. You need to have good field awareness, being able to read situation and manipulate the other team. You need to be able to develop strategy's and change them as necessary to keep your team in the fight. the last thing would probably be good leadership skills to put your team in the best position possible and keeping them together in any situation. To be the best on the field at any given time I think you need to be the best at all of these.

I think you and I will just have to disagree with each other on this. But thank you for taking the time to explain to me your stand point and views.

[Soo Ma Tai]

The question here is not, how do you become a great fighter, it is, what make a good fighter good. The ideal abilities.

Determination and Drive are not skills, they are mental attributes, qualities, if you will. These qualities can lead to becoming better, but alone do not allow you to win fights. I believe what Daggonoth is asking is what key skills are required to be the "best".

Things like, economy of motion, field awareness, shot selection, etc. Not drive ,determination, focus, meditative thought, or any other states of mind.
From what I have read in many martial arts magazines as well as in several seminars with Grandmasters like Remy Preces (SP?) and Dan Inosanto, both stick and blade fighters, that controlling the gap (range control) is the most important factor to winning a fight. After that comes technique, and finally physical abilities. Good technique can trump someone who is stronger or more agile.

Your base is your Basics; stance, footwork, proper shot technique, these are the things that are the base of your style. Without these, you will always be sub-par.

[Kerb]

The question here is not, how do you become a great fighter, it is, what make a good fighter good. The ideal abilities.

Determination and Drive are not skills, they are mental attributes, qualities, if you will. These qualities can lead to becoming better, but alone do not allow you to win fights. I believe what Daggonoth is asking is what key skills are required to be the "best".

Things like, economy of motion, field awareness, shot selection, etc. Not drive ,determination, focus, meditative thought, or any other states of mind.

Again I ask if you feel that you can just put down your drive and desire and some how stay "The Best", I'm pretty sure you will find that to be impossible to maintain with out the desire and drive to remain the best. We agree that these are mental attributes, I have been saying as such in all my posts. As I've already stated, there are many other abilities,skills, attributes, and processes that "The Best" would posses, I feel however that these are the base of this foundation that you build those things upon. And again, without a strong and wide base you go no where.

[BattleChrist]

The question here is not, how do you become a great fighter, it is, what make a good fighter good. The ideal abilities.

Thats how i see this thread.

This has nothing to do with staying the best. The original question is to be the best on the field what do you need not how can i become the best. Someone could not like the sport anymore and have no desire to get better but it they are the best then they are the best regardless how how much the care. They might not be the best for long but that doesn't matter at the moment they were the best.