Rhinohiding

[p_quick]

glancing hits with a green are a pretty iffy shot at best. if some one tries to stab me and it slides off my body and never sticks it's not a hit. just like a grazing hit with a blue, or a garb or light hit. It's all at the opinion of the Hitt-ie.



Now mind you i'm not trying to argue anyone's side of the story i'm just pointing that out.

But i think slagar is right, if you deem him an un fixable problem just don't invite him back or tell him straight up if he isn't gunna play by the rules then he can't play...its really pretty simple. sometimes its better to cut off a leg then let infection spread.

[Chicken]

I've got to chime in here - sliding shots is a real problem when you're spearing, and not just when you're spearing Peter ;). It's why shin shots are surprisingly hard to land - your shin is a little triangle and if it hits off center, especially with a low-profile speartip, it'll just slide right off. Because of the different mechanics of a thrust versus a slash, even a very solidly pushed stab that slides will not feel solid to the victim, which as Peter rightly points out is all that matters.

My best advice is to think of stabbing through the person, which ensures that you'll stab with sufficient force in the first place, and aim for the gut/solar plexus. It's one of the hardest points in the body to move out of the way, and if you connect well they just fold over your spear, rather than having it slide to the side. If the person says "Oof! Glancing," then at least you've won the moral fight.

All that is really only to say there are a lot of spear shots that can feel great to the wielder but feel light when they connect, so that gripe could actually be legit.

This is why my next spear is going to really push the boundries of an acceptable hit ;).

[Loptr]

He didn't take like five hits because of this "rule".

Steal the line from Amtgard's rule book, Dude it says in "the rule book" "A shot that stops or deflects." Then see if he can refute it as not being in the BoW.
We (local Amt park) call sliding shots with no impact "butter". We dont take butter, but if it deflects then slides whole new ballgame......

L

p.s. the post above by Chicken is full of WIN.

[Davit]

Honestly if you have to, knock the guy off his feet with the spear, don't trip him, but stab him so hard that he can't walk while you're stabbing him. Push so hard with that spear so that if he drops his shield to block it he gets pushed back. Just like in regular melee, if it's not hard enough for him to take it, hit harder.

[The Great Gigsby]

There's some really **** advice in this thread.

[Theros the Large]

****? I am not so sure about that...

Do you have something constructive to add to the topic? Or just snide comments?

[The Great Gigsby]

I'm not saying that all of the advice offered is ****, but I strongly believe that whine-fest threads like this one are better off not being made or encouraged. I fail to see any use for this thread other than as a hugbox for people who can't deal with their own problems and as a soapbox for tough guys to stand on and bore us with their tough guy stories. That said, this is going to be my only reply. If you want to take it to me, do it in a PM, please.

IMO, It's pretty weak (and disrespectful) to * about a realm-mate on the boards. If you've got beef, deal with it in a positive and helpful way to their face.

Relg is the only one in the scenario offering a perspective. Everyone else is just speculating and riffing on what Relg is claiming to be true. I understand that to move the discussion forward we've got to assume that Relg is speaking the truth, but in my experience, there's usually two or more sides to a story; especially when part of the story involves a vendetta against someone on the internet. Relg has less than a year of experience. Same goes for the cheater in question. I'm not calling anyone a liar, but I'm not calling anyone a cheater either.

Sometimes a light shot is just a light shot.

Turning up the heat on a suspected sluffer is always kind of a gamble and usually a last resort. If you're gonna crank it, don't be a * about it. Do it with the intent to keep the fight fair, not to send your target to the emergency room. If you break somebody's nose or fingers because you were trying to teach them a lesson about hit-taking, you just lost all your credibility and hopefully, somebody gets sued.

1.3. The target of an attack makes combat hit determinations.

[Sir Anastasia]

I believe this thread did offer some positive advice for realm admins on how to deal with this on the field. I think this is a serious issue and that it should be talked about without being a whine-fest. Many people have disagreements on how to address rhinos, some people advocated hitting harder (which may not be an option for some realms), and we also learned about heralding games, how to share heralding responsibilities, ect. I don't think this was a waste at all, and I have gotten a lot of info out of it. Also, I can see some value in venting before talking with this guy, I have to do that a lot before I confront someone. This way I can keep my cool.

-Anastasia of Chamonix

[p_quick]

Relg is the only one in the scenario offering a perspective. Everyone else is just speculating and riffing on what Relg is claiming to be true. I understand that to move the discussion forward we've got to assume that Relg is speaking the truth, but in my experience, there's usually two or more sides to a story; especially when part of the story involves a vendetta against someone on the internet. Relg has less than a year of experience. Same goes for the cheater in question. I'm not calling anyone a liar, but I'm not calling anyone a cheater either.

1.3. The target of an attack makes combat hit determinations.

well spoken usually there are more sides to the story.

I don't think you read the whole thread before you put you post up.

IMO, It's pretty weak (and disrespectful) to * about a realm-mate on the boards. If you've got beef, deal with it in a positive and helpful way to their face.

This is true, but as was said earlier, this was tried and it didn't work.

Sometimes a light shot is just a light shot.

1.3. The target of an attack makes combat hit determinations.

This has also been said. and no one has been pointing fingers at individual people about cheating or bad hit taking.

Turning up the heat on a suspected sluffer is always kind of a gamble and usually a last resort. If you're gonna crank it, don't be a * about it. Do it with the intent to keep the fight fair, not to send your target to the emergency room. If you break somebody's nose or fingers because you were trying to teach them a lesson about hit-taking, you just lost all your credibility and hopefully, somebody gets sued.

you are right it is a last resort, and sometimes usually the worst way to handle these types of situations. But this wasn't the only advice that was given in this thread.

So you seem to believe you are a higher caliber person because you can go hug some trees and solve everyone's hit taking problems in a non-violent way. well good for you Mr. Green, keep living the dream. We play a full contact sport, not a touch feely don't wanna hurt anyones feelings game, this isn't (and i mean no offense) middle school girls soccer. It is belegarth, so grow a pair, if you wanna play a game where no one gets hurt go play wow, and don't waist people's time with soap-box umbrella accusations.

and PS no one is gunna get sued because everyone (at least everyone should) have signed a waiver.

[Remdawg Killionaire]

and PS no one is gunna get sued because everyone (at least everyone should) have signed a waiver.

It's not your fault if you break one of his kneecaps; he signed the waiver, right?

[p_quick]

i didn't say anything about fault, i said no one is gunna get sued.

Haha and why the knee caps? Are we hitting each other with batons? it's not like we are trying to forcefully pull information out of the people we are fighting.

and we are still fighting foam swords, i'm just saying **** happens in a full contact sport. Is it the Linebacker's fault if the quarterback breaks his thumb when he get's tackled?

[Relg]

If I wished to deal with your disrespect, Giggles, I would have asked for it.

[Sir Anastasia]

I think Giggles had some good points (even if not politely conveyed).
1) You should have a conversation with people you have disagreements with-that's part of life and the game.
2) You shouldn't talk trash about your realm mates (although we didn't specify who here, so I feel generalizations are ok).
3) Topics should focus on peaceable solutions, not just hitting someone harder (this isn't always an option, and I think is rarely the correct option).
-Ana

[Theros the Large]

I'm not saying that all of the advice offered is ****, but I strongly believe that whine-fest threads like this one are better off not being made or encouraged. I fail to see any use for this thread other than as a hugbox for people who can't deal with their own problems and as a soapbox for tough guys to stand on and bore us with their tough guy stories. That said, this is going to be my only reply. If you want to take it to me, do it in a PM, please.

IMO, It's pretty weak (and disrespectful) to * about a realm-mate on the boards. If you've got beef, deal with it in a positive and helpful way to their face.

Relg is the only one in the scenario offering a perspective. Everyone else is just speculating and riffing on what Relg is claiming to be true. I understand that to move the discussion forward we've got to assume that Relg is speaking the truth, but in my experience, there's usually two or more sides to a story; especially when part of the story involves a vendetta against someone on the internet. Relg has less than a year of experience. Same goes for the cheater in question. I'm not calling anyone a liar, but I'm not calling anyone a cheater either.

Sometimes a light shot is just a light shot.

Turning up the heat on a suspected sluffer is always kind of a gamble and usually a last resort. If you're gonna crank it, don't be a * about it. Do it with the intent to keep the fight fair, not to send your target to the emergency room. If you break somebody's nose or fingers because you were trying to teach them a lesson about hit-taking, you just lost all your credibility and hopefully, somebody gets sued.

1.3. The target of an attack makes combat hit determinations.

I have no reason to "tear you apart" on here. You added something to the conversation other than a snippy comment just like I asked...

Hooray and thanks for listening!

[Soo Ma Tai]

Couple things.

1. A waiver does not stop anyone from sueing the group or an individual. It only provides a deterrant and a bit of legal weight. The likelyhood of being sued is really slim, but it can happen.

2. If you are hitting someone with the ~intent to harm~ them, you are not protected by the waiver. At that point you are being negligent.

[Spike]

So you seem to believe you are a higher caliber person because you can go hug some trees and solve everyone's hit taking problems in a non-violent way. well good for you Mr. Green, keep living the dream. We play a full contact sport, not a touch feely don't wanna hurt anyones feelings game, this isn't (and i mean no offense) middle school girls soccer. It is belegarth, so grow a pair, if you wanna play a game where no one gets hurt go play wow, and don't waist people's time with soap-box umbrella accusations.

and PS no one is gunna get sued because everyone (at least everyone should) have signed a waiver.

Well, I've seen a lot of comments and videos regarding your fighting style, Petar. Up until now I've never seen any of your fighting philosophy. I'm glad I read this. It's taught me alot.

[Relg]

I fail to see how seeking a way to make the game more fun for everyone is considered whining.
There's a little thing called tact. Perhaps its time you got some.

[p_quick]

i never said i'm trying to hurt people, i just said i play ruff.

[p_quick]

Well, I've seen a lot of comments and videos regarding your fighting style, Petar. Up until now I've never seen any of your fighting philosophy. I'm glad I read this. It's taught me alot.

heh my fighting philosophy is quite a different thing, this is my * philosophy. did you at least enjoy my keyboard cowboying?

Couple things.

1. A waiver does not stop anyone from sueing the group or an individual. It only provides a deterrant and a bit of legal weight. The likelyhood of being sued is really slim, but it can happen.

2. If you are hitting someone with the ~intent to harm~ them, you are not protected by the waiver. At that point you are being negligent.

good points my good man. and not to be over looked.

[Roland Demox]

Couple things.

1. A waiver does not stop anyone from sueing the group or an individual. It only provides a deterrant and a bit of legal weight. The likelyhood of being sued is really slim, but it can happen.

2. If you are hitting someone with the ~intent to harm~ them, you are not protected by the waiver. At that point you are being negligent.

Soo your totally right. The only problems is a signed waiver stating your playing at your own risk usually gets a lawsuit thrown out pretty quick

and as for the second one, again completely accurate, however in the case of a lawsuit, prove it

Again I totally feel that you should never have the intent to harm, ever, that blows the spirit of our game. Yet I believe in Peter's philosphy that this is a rough sport. Having said that you should never try to actually harm somebody, and if I say that somebody blows off your shots then you need to hit harder then I am under the impression that the "cheater" just wants to be hit harder. He obviously feels that your hit is too light to take so you have to hit harder, in no way meant to harm, but to "play by their standards." If you feel your emotions start to get the better of you, walk off the field. Ive seen many fighters do it and its usually a good move if your truly that angry

[Loptr]

If I wished to deal with your disrespect, Giggles, I would have asked for it.

I fail to see how seeking a way to make the game more fun for everyone is considered whining. There's a little thing called tact. Perhaps its time you got some.

*Emphasis mine* This is whining, the distinction is appreciated.

Your posting to a internet forum and asking to not be harassed? It’s a little thing called (ironically for this thread) a thick skin. Perhaps its time you got some.

Seeking to make the game better and more fun is a good thing. These two posts do nothing for the thread period.

To improve upon this thread.
Soo- hit the nail right on the head!
Waivers are a speed bump not a fortress of protection. Negligent players put the game at risk. In addition to their own involvement in a potential suit, the game can be found liable for not policing the actions of its waivered participants. The odds of this happening? Perhaps quite slim. But the point remains a waiver is like wearing armor. It might keep you in the fight longer but it is not a guarantee of surviving by any means.

L

[Grey]

I second on the beating the cheater out of him. Like Peter the Quick said, they signed up for it. Shield bashes are your friends. also, next time you use the spear, stab the rhino in his solar plexus (a good solid hit is almost as bad as a nutshot)
Just to be clear, I'm not saying you should try and hurt the guy. Just give him a few bumps and bruises to think about before the next fight. (even I thought being drug acrossed gravel was a little excessive)

[Sir Anastasia]

Seriously?!

What if people aren't taking my hits because I weigh half as much as they do and therefore can't hit them hard enough according to their standards. As a realm leader of a college campus group, I don't think it's a good practice to tell everyone to hit harder. I have found that my attendance decreases dramatically with rhinos and hard-hitters on the field. Also, all of the girls stop playing except for me. If I am taking light and hitting hard within my physical limits-->that shot needs to be taken. *Ramping up the power of hits just makes everyone else stop taking reasonable shots*. Eventually, everyone is only taking hits that bruise and no one is having any fun.

Rhinos kill attendance-take turns being heralds to nip this in the butt before its a chronic problem.

-Anastasia of Chamonix

[p_quick]

Eventually, everyone is only taking hits that bruise and no one is having any fun.


-Anastasia of Chamonix

who says this isn't fun, why do you think i have a bunch of three legged tables in my house?

[Sir Anastasia]

No one tells me its not fun...they just aren't at practice anymore. I have seen practices go from 20 to 5 when everyone only takes hard hits. When I ask people why they haven't been around, they tell me it's because of rhinos and hard hits.

We fight 4X a week. If you get bruises on Monday, they are hit again all week. You get tired of being hit all over your old bruises pretty quick.

-Anastasia of Chamonix

[p_quick]

you didn't get my joke

[Sir Anastasia]

you didn't get my joke

No...I just didn't LAUGH at your joke.

[p_quick]

relax,

so if you didn't laugh, then who was phone?

[Brennon EH]

I'll be honest, I take light and swing moderately hard. I'm not really interested in if you're hitting me 'hard enough', I'm more interested that I screwed up a block, timed something poorly, or had bad footwork.

There are occasions when I will tell people that a shot didn't connect. This is generally if you just nicked or grazed something and it didn't interrupt your swing at all. If I have to stop and think if the shot was valid, I take it. I will frequently hit somebody and then ask if their follow-up shot was in time or not... But if I'm asking that question, it's because I pretty firmly believe the answer is an obvious "no, it wasn't". If they say 'yes', I say 'thank you' and take the hit.

If somebody is dedicated to cheating me (which hasn't happened in... years) Then I generally start beating them in flashy, embarrassing, and humiliating ways. And I make sure and have other people gather around and cheer for me. I've had people leave the field before. Humiliation is highly effective, since respect and achievement is what a cheater is looking for in the first place.

[Sir Anastasia]

Sounds harsh, but I have to agree with the humiliation tactics. I tried the hearld game today, but it didn't improve anything on the field. I'm prolly gonna have a pep talk with everyone at practice for this week. Basically, it seems as though when we go to events and some people start training, taking it seriously, and becoming competitive-the shruggery begins. I'm going to try to convey to them that their reputation will long outlast their garb and gear, and that victory without honor is personal defeat.
-Anastasia of Chamonix

[Big King Jimmy]

Seriously?!

What if people aren't taking my hits because I weigh half as much as they do and therefore can't hit them hard enough according to their standards.

While I understand that this is Belegarth, and "sufficient force" is subjective, if you don't have the umph to score a hit, you don't have the umph to score a hit. Really sorry you're (going by your example, not fact) helpless on the field.

[Alunsun]

I'll be honest, I take light and swing moderately hard. I'm not really interested in if you're hitting me 'hard enough', I'm more interested that I screwed up a block, timed something poorly, or had bad footwork.

QFT

There are occasions when I will tell people that a shot didn't connect.

Like when taking your opponents light hit would insult them. For example (and for the record), IMO, someone calling light on me means that they consider me a worthy opponent and that they would like to continue fighting me. They believe that I can do better, and their accepting my light hit would be like them saying, "It's ok, you did the best you could, and even though it wasn't good enough by my standards, you still get an 'E' for effort."

Unfortunately, though, there are some people that can only hit so hard. Yes, it does need to be taken into consideration that they are weaklings. As a result, the only thing you can do is A) Judge them, deem them as weak, and take their weak- sauce hits, or B) Call light on them a few times. Then, when you realize that they are not strong enough to hurt you (tough guy much?), taker their light hits and quote the aforementioned statement about effort (in your head... you arrogant *). This is a contact sport, but it's so much more because it has an honor aspect to it. Basically, all I'm saying is that people out there know what they have to do, which is educate and encourage their less- experienced foam- fighting peers.

Just be 1337 basically, and don't be a noob.

[Arrakis]

I've yet to find the mythical noodly-armed twelve year old female fighter that can't throw a shot with sufficient force. All I've found so far are a lot of people who don't have much muscle mass and have psyched themselves out of being able to throw a good shot.

Throw from your hips and shoulders and elbow and wrist all in the same swing and put it somewhere I don't have a block posted and you are, no matter who you are (assuming you're healthy enough to be on the field in the first place), going to put a shot on flesh that will be loudly heard and powerfully felt.

There are people out there who won't take shots that are way sufficient, especially when they're all geared up on adrenaline and macho, but there isn't anyone out there that can't throw a better shot than most people take most of the time.

[Sir Anastasia]

Seriously?!

What if people aren't taking my hits because I weigh half as much as they do and therefore can't hit them hard enough according to their standards.

While I understand that this is Belegarth, and "sufficient force" is subjective, if you don't have the umph to score a hit, you don't have the umph to score a hit. Really sorry you're (going by your example, not fact) helpless on the field.

You are missing the point. Most people who don't weigh 300 lbs can't hit as hard as the person who weighs 300 lbs. This is a reality of force. I have played on many national fields and I have no problems with 90% of fighters. I maintain that the 10% that I do have problems with are shrugging good shots because they need a bruise before they take the hit (and trust me...they don't bruise easy).

[Sir Anastasia]

BTW: I would say that 20% of fighters say I hit hard. I hear a lot of "ugh-oof" with my torso shots. Main point here is that everyone has a bar for what they will except as a good hit. I have a low bar for "taking", a high bar for "hitting" (I think this is best). Some people have a higher "taking bar" than their "hitting bar," meaning they want you to take their shots, before they would be taking the same force as a good hit. Not always, but sometimes, these are big guys-who claim "no one is hitting them hard enough." I believe this is one type of rhino and is more likely to show up on fields that encourage "hitting harder" in order to solve the rhino problem.
Thanks,
Anastasia of Chamonix

[Alunsun]

I've yet to find the mythical noodly-armed twelve year old female fighter that can't throw a shot with sufficient force. All I've found so far are a lot of people who don't have much muscle mass and have psyched themselves out of being able to throw a good shot.

I agree 100% ^_^

[Alunsun]

BTW: I would say that 20% of fighters say I hit hard. I hear a lot of "ugh-oof" with my torso shots. Main point here is that everyone has a bar for what they will except as a good hit. I have a low bar for "taking", a high bar for "hitting" (I think this is best). Some people have a higher "taking bar" than their "hitting bar," meaning they want you to take their shots, before they would be taking the same force as a good hit. Not always, but sometimes, these are big guys-who claim "no one is hitting them hard enough." I believe this is one type of rhino and is more likely to show up on fields that encourage "hitting harder" in order to solve the rhino problem.
Thanks,
Anastasia of Chamonix

"ugh-oof" usually means "good/valid shot." If they don't take it, they are cheaters.

[Sir Anastasia]

That's what I'm saying!
-Anastasia of Chamonix

[Bortas]

You are missing the point. Most people who don't weigh 300 lbs can't hit as hard as the person who weighs 300 lbs. This is a reality of force. I have played on many national fields and I have no problems with 90% of fighters. I maintain that the 10% that I do have problems with are shrugging good shots because they need a bruise before they take the hit (and trust me...they don't bruise easy).

Actually, I think you are... sufficient force is not measured by how much the swinger ways, more in how they swing. Don't cheat your fighters by telling them they are too small to throw a good shot on that brute, teach proper body mechanics on how to throw a shot. I have NEVER encountered so small a teen/adult that could not throw a good shot after learning good technique.

What is good technique? Read up on Duke Paul Bellatrix - http://www.bellatrix.org/school/ Sure, he teaches SCA, but the information translates directly (just aim 12" lower!). Specifically, read page 4, watching the attached flash. Power is generated starting at the hips, not the wrist (most 'light' shotters make this most fundamental of mistakes).

-bort

[Sir Anastasia]

1) No one has a problem throwing shots with sufficient force in the realm. I am not telling people in my realm that small people cannot hit hard.
2) AND I am not hitting light. If you look at the TITLE of the thread, you might see why I am getting very frustrated.
3) I have no problems at nationals with people taking my hits, what I am referring to specifically, is the phenomenon of rhinos CLAIMING that they have not been hit hard enough...even after "OOmf."
4) I do maintain that at the end of the day--really large muscular people can swing harder than smaller less muscled individuals. However, this does not mean the lightweights aren't hitting hard enough. Once again (see title) this is something rhinos sometimes claim. I get very tired of their argument.

Ty,
Anastasia of Chamonix <------has big muscles and hits hard enough.

[p_quick]

you have moved the topic away from the original intent here AoC.

You are defending your points like they are a personal attack on your shot mechanics.

relax, listen to what people have said, apply it, or ask questions. don't take your frustrations out on us.

[Sir Anastasia]

Sorry. I do get carried away. I think the "girl arms" comment got me pretty hot. It can be frustrating.
-Ana

[xiao]

i was thinking about this one herald that has a digital camera and shoots the footage of rhinos, plays for all to see!

[Remdawg Killionaire]

I'll vouch for Ana not having 'girl arms'
she got 'grrl arms' !!

[Arrakis]

If that was directed at me, I would just like to say that when I said "noodly armed 12 year old female fighter" I was aping all of the excuses people give for being unable to throw a decent shot, not indicating that I felt that women were less able or pimpin' in our game. Nilu da Hobgoblin was my mentor when I started my fighting career and she's... well, a she. She can beat my * down with the gnarliest of 'em.

[Sir Anastasia]

Arrakis,
No man...it's not you. I never type the thing I mean-This is my issue (Yeah, I gots em'). The apology was sincere and to others in this topic as well. I'm the anxiety queen and I am waiting for news on Neuroscience grad school acceptance (or rejection). Patience isn't my virtue either-so I have just been over-reacting to everything due to this stress. I totally took earlier advice as a critique on my fighting, which as an 8 year vet, I get crabby when people imply the problem was my shot rather than the rhino. Still my problem though-I shouldn't have taken it personally.

[Austin12157]

while im risking sounding like a jerk i fell that i should bring this up. Im not sure about you guys but its clear when someone stops playing and starts trying to hurt you. Granted these guys are cheating and that's wrong after all this is a game and its meant to be fun but if someone were to start beating on me not to play but to be spiteful i would lose my temper and form weapons or not they would be a smear on my boot when i was done.

What im trying to say is that you dont have to play with them. I dont have much experience playing but maybe you could just tell them about it and just not playing with them? i mean if its the wrong person they could fly off the handle and hurt you or attack you and you fly off the handle and hurt them.

This is a fighting type game (i feel its more of a sport but thats another topic) maybe straight up trying to hurt them and threatening them is a bad idea......

Like it has been said it is only a game after all.......

[Slagar]

Out of the mouths of noobs, truth has been spoken. Well said, man.

Seriously, though. This thread has pretty much run its course, and fallen apart. Let's just move on, shall we?

[p_quick]

AoC don't worry about it and good luck with grad school

[Arrakis]

AoC don't worry about it and good luck with grad school :)

This.^