Wolfpack Sparring

[Winfang]

I'm messing around with different formats. Click on it to get the HD version.

[Arkin]

I like being bare foot I just dont like combat boots on them with a 200+ pound person in said combat boots.

The video looks good, thanks for letting me be in it. Anyone want to break down Winfangs dance moves?

[Winfang]

It's stereo-typical white-boy dancing. Awkward and no rhythm.

Another pro-tip, listen to your knight

[MagnusofDregoth]

Looks good--I wish I could have been there.

I feel so out of practice.

[Soo Ma Tai]

I didn't wear shoes, till I got one of those Dur-D thorns stuck in my foot. Now i never fight bare footed.

[p_quick]

thanks for getting that stuff up fang, where is the rest of it?

[Soo Ma Tai]

thanks for getting that stuff up fang, where is the rest of it?

That's what she said!


Sorry, couldn't help myself.

[Winfang]

Oh com'on, give me a break! I've got a total of 48 minutes of sparring on camera, I'm editing out the dead-space and training stuff.

I did do a break down of our fights that where caught on camera, 10-5 with 2 simos. Definitely in your favor. The only other person who got the better of me was Morbain, 3-1.

I can definitely tell that I'm still trying to work the kinks out of this new shield in respect to positioning and guarding shots. Transitioning from a 38"x28" strapped heater to a 28" punch-round isn't a simple walk-in-the-park. I've also got to come prepared with better weapons. Having my preferred sword blowout within the 1st hour doesn't help either.

I wish I could have recorded all of our sparring sessions.

[Big King Jimmy]

Arkin, very interesting the way you react to Peter simply getting into stance around 4:30.

[Dane]

Arkin recognized that Peter was baiting him. He was over-deliberately declining the perceived opening.

I've seen so many fighters just freeze when Peter goes from an at-ease position into his guard - I used to be one of them, and I recognized how badly I was freezing after getting shanked into oblivion at Spring War and half of Melcaorme. It's fun to watch, now; you can see their resolve just break as he goes to en guarde.

[Arkin]

Yea Peter the dentist grinds so much that when he gets in his stance, like that, your mind instantly thinks he is going to grind. Gets my heart pounding for a sec so I try to keep distance and relax... Then get hit in the shoulder... It happens.

Next event, Next event

[Arrakis]

And I sit in my chair literally lusting after the opportunity to have been at that event. I miss everyone I saw that I know and need to meet the dang rest of y'all so I can properly assign faces to names.

Looked like some of the finest fighting to be found.

[p_quick]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHyIJQr6 ... annel_page

I still cross too much...

[Ramius]

Peter: You are telegraphing almost every pocket stab. You always coil your body down before attempting, raise the sword higher in your stance, then you either twitch the sword 45 degrees forward (like you were going to attempt the stab, but decided otherwise) or you slow roll the sword forward before lunging forward. The good news is it seems most of your opponents read this as an incoming high cross and pop their pocket up slightly giving the stab a better area to land.

Tall Guy (name?): You are pulling your shots BAD. Most of the time when you throw you are not extending and are instead popping your elbow out before impact (or supposed impact). I think the reasoning is either you are afraid of the riposte or you are trying to generate more tip speed. It makes the follow through awful, robs shot power, and reduces your range by a good 6-12 inches.

Winfang: Something to me is weird about your stance, but I am not sure what. I think it may be improper sword placement, but it just might be a visual tic to me and me alone. You seem to be doing a modified A-frame SCA stance but with the straight up sword of an "H-frame" stance (my term, not sure what else to call it). Whenever I fight A-frame I typically keep the mid point of my sword straight in front of the bottom of my armpit with my elbow * out slightly and my hand at a slight angle inward (horizontally); the sword then angles towards my shield. In an H-frame I keep my elbow against my hip and push my sword hand out away from my body and keep my sword vertical. It looks like you are keeping your elbow and hand in alignment and with your elbow on your hip and your forearm parallel to the ground. Is this a cause of there not being many offside shots in Bel (other than the high cross)?

Just observations from a nobody, feel free to disregard

-Ramius

[p_quick]

thanks Ramius

[MagnusofDregoth]

I posted these on the Armour Archive, which is a mostly SCA forum. Take a look:

http://forums.armourarchive.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=1309427#1309427

(yeah, I post under my real name there, since I didn't have an SCA name when I started posting there)

Not sure if anyone from here needs to respond to the feedback there, but I thought it would be interesting to see how they react to this video.

I think it's pretty good fighting, and that the SCA fighters who are responding really don't have a sense of what it's like to fight our style, but useful nonetheless to get an outside perspective.

[Winfang]

Man, I don't even get a chance to post it myself.

[Brennon EH]

In my (admittedly limited) exposure to the SCA, they have limited shot-selection and are very head-focused. Their techniques are slow and telegraphed. I'm not sure why. The few times I've suited up and used their weapons, it wasn't terribly difficult to perform all the same moves and footwork that we commonly do in our game(s).

The extra weight on the head means you've definitely got to adjust everything, though. It took me a while to get used to.

In Amtgard we have a couple of guys that regularly cross over and fight SCA heavy... And they generally compare favorably out of the gate to their above-average fighters, and within a few months of practice are routinely exchanging equally with their best local guys. Now, that may be a Texas-centric thing. Texas (Ansteorra?) could be the absolute backwater of the SCA just as the Indiana area is the backwater of Amtgard. I'm not hasty enough to want to rush conclusions about it.

I would recommend you take their advice with a grain of salt, and temper anything said there with commentary from people like Winfang and Physic who actually have experience in both systems. I would also suggest you keep in mind the pretty clear "my game is superior to your game, you wussies" mentality evidenced by a couple of people in that thread.

[MagnusofDregoth]

Sorry, Winfang, if that was inappropriate on my part. I should have asked, or suggested it to you.

Brennon, my experience crossing over to SCA has been largely the same as that of the guys you mentioned. I've really only done a little bit of it, but I have found that my Dag/Bel experience has made me an average/above average fighter despite only going to one SCA event and practicing only sporadically. Once I get better armor and a better sword, I anticipate my game improving as well.

What sort of bugs me is that a lot of the people posting on that thread (aside from the David guy and some dude named Josh) are not critiquing the fighting, but rather saying that Belegarth is a dumb game because head shots aren't allowed. Whereas they should be saying, at least assuming Peter, Falkor, Winfang, and the rest actually are fighting well, is "based on your description of the rules, it looks like these guys are using an effective style of fighting," or at the very least "not having any experience with your game, I can't really comment, but they look like they're having fun." Rather than "your system is flawed and dumb, and the faulty ruleset and light weapons invalidate any skill you may have with them," which seems the general tenor of the discussion.

Oh well.

[Brennon EH]

Hah, welcome to my world. The reception Bel/Dag is getting there is largely the same initial reaction Amtgard received here years ago.

The cure? Patience and time. They are not bad people, just uninformed. Given time, we can fix them

[Winfang]

Meh, I'm not worried. It's on the internet so it's not like I'm trying to hide it. I was actually commenting on Peter finding it faster then I could post it.

[Arrakis]

I lul at how light they seem to assume our weapons are. I own several 20oz + blues and at least one 24oz+ blue and could easily make them heavier. Then again, some of those guys are probably used to what I was handed when hit my first SCA practice: a 36" piece of 1.3+" diameter grass with a 1.75# iron guard on it which totals out to a 3# "club" (kills on hip shots!) It was weighted very oddly when compared to our weapons (or real swords for that matter). So, you know. Whatever. I think the lack of shield-body contact, grappling, and shin shots makes SCA styles less realistic and kind of arbitrarily weird, so I suppose dedicated SCAdians are allowed to think our lack of head shots makes our styles weird.

[p_quick]

heh i was getting ready for bed and spyn text me informing me of it being up. so it is spyn's fault

[Winfang]

My sparring videos is like the Peter show. He gets all the comments and such

[Brennon EH]

Which one are you, Win? I'll be happy to post about what I see.

[Winfang]

It's all good. I'm the one in the red tunic with the punch round.

[Arrakis]

Winfang, you clearly haven't figured it out yet: The WORLD is The Peter Show. You're just a supporting character who, in this case, got to be DoP, Producer, and Distributor.

It all looked like way too much awesome and fun for me to really critique.

[p_quick]

sorry fang i didn't mean to steal your thunder here

[Winfang]

You're not stealing anyone's thunder, they're just all attracted to your mustache. Well, that and you where winning too.

[p_quick]

i donno your dance and foot stomp are pretty epic as well =)

[Izareth]

Ramius:
The tall lefty is Falkor AKA Chadwick.

Chadwick AKA Falkor?

You guys keep raising the bar. I'll keep hangin' in there.

[p_quick]

i'll let you post it this time fang =) but the last one is up

[Winfang]

Yay!!!

[Physic]

When most of you are fighting Peter you all will start with right leg forward or move into it at range. This is really bad as you can see in the video against solid lefties and good florentiners that know how to use the left hand. If you are going to move that foot forward make sure it is in a hard closing shot where you can cut off most of the angle with a simple shield block. Peter is using those leg shots to open up the high shield side wrap and alternate leg shot. Throwing that leg shot for him is a very efficient move that allows him to stay at range and does not open his defense up much. Remember you want to fight a florentine fighter like a left handed fighter.

[tvetree]

Ok,As an outsider looking in.(I do SCA ,but catch bel practices also)
Winfang you look to be standing onyour heels not only while standing but also while moving,try to stay on the balls of your feet,they will move faster.
You hold your shield to tight to your body,it would be Ok for a heater but a round needs to move more.Punch block with the edge not the flat of the sheild.(even on a center grip)

Your sword arm is forward and high in stance,but then moves to the rear for almost every shot.When it doesn't move to the rear it drops lower before the shot.
Your stance is very square to your oppent.Maybe to square,angles are your freind.


That said,In bel you would walk all over me,In SCA I'd be a good dance for you.

[Winfang]

Thanks Tvetree. When I catch you at a SCA event, I would love to go a few passes with you