MCR: Modified Combined Ruleset discussion

[Brennon EH]

http://www.electricsamurai.com/forums/v ... hp?t=17609

Mods: If you feel this doesn't belong here, please feel free to move it wherever you do feel it belongs. I couldn't really think of the right place to put it, since it's a bit of a mishmash.

Anyway, please give me your feedback either in this thread or in the e-sam thread. I really want to put together something we can all be happy with to grow our ability to compete with one another in a productive and friendly way.


Thanks,
Brennon

[Sir Cairbre]

In armor you define cops

3.1.5. Cops - Rigid metal knee and elbow Armor.

But don't use the term at all.

[Derian]

I skimmed it, and it looks good. One question though, and I may have missed it - I see that arrows to the head are illegal, what about javelins?

[Tails]

couple questions,

"If you're from Amtgard, you need to know the following at a minimum:...
...6. Good sportsmanship will be required. Poor attitudes will get you booted from the field to cool off. Doing it again will get you shown the door."

I haven't had a lot of contact with other foam fighting sports, but what dose this say about the Amtgard people?

"If you're from Bel/Dag, you need to know the following at a minimum:...
...3. There is still sufficient force. It will be calibrated via an objective standard of measure using a device."

I think that just means we have the ability to call light or glancing, correct me If I am wrong.

[Brennon EH]

"If you're from Amtgard, you need to know the following at a minimum:...
...6. Good sportsmanship will be required. Poor attitudes will get you booted from the field to cool off. Doing it again will get you shown the door."

I haven't had a lot of contact with other foam fighting sports, but what dose this say about the Amtgard people?

That's a fair question. Amtgard is very competitive, and that has up sides and down sides. One of the down sides is that people sometimes get carried away or get their emotions revved up. I'm forewarning those people to be on their best behavior and take it down a notch. I, myself, am certainly guilty of such behavior.

"If you're from Bel/Dag, you need to know the following at a minimum:...
...3. There is still sufficient force. It will be calibrated via an objective standard of measure using a device."

I think that just means we have the ability to call light or glancing, correct me If I am wrong.

Definitely so. If you aren't hit with sufficient force, it doesn't count. That said, I would encourage people to err on the side of caution if the hit was clean, and communicate with your opponents about what is going on in all possible situations.

[Brennon EH]

I skimmed it, and it looks good. One question though, and I may have missed it - I see that arrows to the head are illegal, what about javelins?

Huh. Well, I think it's currently worded that projectiles to the head don't count; the head simply isn't a valid target area for any reason. That said, javelins to the face don't really concern me. The only reason to rule them out is for the sheer simplicity of being able to say 'head shots do not count' and not worry about WHAT hit your head.

What do you see as the pros and cons of each side?

[Winfang]

For deciding the force of the strike, what device are you going to use?

[Brennon EH]

For deciding the force of the strike, what device are you going to use?

An object on a pedestal of a certain height that must be displaced off to the ground a certain distance. It's imperfect, yeah, but it should get the job done with the assistance of heralds who are trained how to use the device.

If you've got a better idea, I am totally open.

[Derian]

I agree that for simplicity, javelins to the head probably shouldn't count, even though it is fun to nail people right in the face with them.

[Sir Cairbre]

Huh. Well, I think it's currently worded that projectiles to the head don't count; the head simply isn't a valid target area for any reason....

What do you see as the pros and cons of each side?

The pro's are safety. The Con is the same as when I wear my helm in belegarth I suddenly find myself trying to head bunt arrows. Usually I am only fast enough to catch one that would have gone over my shoulder.

[Sir Killian]

3.7.3.1.2. Laying a Weapon across a Shield so that it is protected from Class 2 Weapon strikes.

are drop blocks legal?

1.1.9. Archery - Class 3 Weapons including bows, crossbows, arrows, and bolts. All Ammunition must be clearly labeled with the name of the player using it.
why? isnt that the choice of a player... plus we have some fighters with expensive bows or stylized arrows that it would be a travesty to mark them like a kindergartners jacket... just saying is all


1.3.4. The Weapon pommel must not readily pass through a 2. diameter hole.
define readily please... i understand but i want others to understand as well

1.4.5.5. Only one hinge per flail is allowed.
you **** rule... i hated 18in whips in shrouding mists

2.7. Shields may not be affixed to weapons in any manner.
no mahdu's?

overall i dig the rules and i thank you all who are putting in some hard work and effort to make this shindig happen

thanks

[Brennon EH]

What do you mean by 'drop block'?

[Sir Killian]

when a shot is coming to crush my shield i tend to punch block the shot to take most of the force from the swing and my sword is deflected off my shield.... i only know of a few of us who still do this but it is viable in our game...

[Juicer]

when a shot is coming to crush my shield i tend to punch block the shot to take most of the force from the swing and my sword is deflected off my shield.... i only know of a few of us who still do this but it is viable in our game...

I think he means actually laying your weapon on your shield face and anvilling the shot, which I always thought was illegal anyway. I'm sure you'd be fine with a drop block, I do that too.

[Brennon EH]

Yeah, Juicer has got it right.

[Sir Killian]

just wanted to clarify...

[Cyric]

1. Shield bashing, checking, rimming, etc is allowed to all normal hit locations except for the back.

I would change rimming to edging. That's what most of us call it, anyway. and it doesn't sound so dirty.

I apprecaite you putting in the "what bel/amt people need to know" sections. that'll make explaining it easier.

[Ramius]

Another note of difference from Bel:

"1. Adjudication
...
1.3. The target of an attack makes combat strike determinations."

It doesn't differentiate between missile and melee, so no archers calling their own shots.

Also, are referees able to call shots on players? The rules could be used to imply yes (due to, say, cheating) but it isn't implied. There has been some discussion of "active marshalling" being used in the SCA and Belegarth.

-Ramius

[Derian]

Oh, yeah, that's probably something else that should go in the 'what Belegarth players need to know" section: archers can't call shots.

[Chicken]

2.1 says there are 5 classifications still.

Backboarding is... hitting someone in the head and then somewhere else? I'd never guess that meaning. Here, if anything, it means having a shield slung around your back. If that's what it means, you might just want to drop it (or rearrange it) since that section's for Bel/dag folks who don't know the term anyway.

Speaking of which - does no worn shields mean no bucklers as well? That's gonna make spearing... an interesting challenge .

Also, grabbing a weapon counts as grappling? If so, you might want to add that to the "For Bel/Dag fighters" section. In ours it isn't considered grappling since you can drop the weapon and be disengaged if you want, which means armored fighters can grab weapons from unarmored.

No explicit rule for two down legs - are both still valid?

Are (stabbing only) spears supposed to be able to break shields? If so, I wholeheartedly take back what I said earlier. And you might want to explicitly mention that spears can break shields in the Bel/Dag intro, 'cause that'll really mess with people's heads.

Atomic clock or shot in motion? I don't believe either Bel or Dag state it explicitly in the rules, but both use shot-in-motion in practice.

Don't know if this merits being included in that intro warning or not, but the flex rule and the class 1 haft padding rule could both make a few Bel/dag passing weapons fail.

Hope that helps, I'm looking forward to trying it out!

[Arrakis]

This ruleset is sounding like a giant pile of awesome.

[The Great Gigsby]

Are (stabbing only) spears supposed to be able to break shields? If so, I wholeheartedly take back what I said earlier. And you might want to explicitly mention that spears can break shields in the Bel/Dag intro, 'cause that'll really mess with people's heads.

I would guess not, but I think it could stand to be clarified. The word strike is fairly ambiguous.

Is ground scoring allowed? If so, I would add a disclaimer about it in the "if you're from Amtgard" section.

[Arrakis]

By the by, quarterstaves? Other double-ended weapons?

[MagnusofDregoth]

The downside, as far as I am concerned, to having no missiles (or anything else) to the head is that the wearing of a helmet is now a substantial in-game disadvantage. And I think they look cool and make the game more realistic (after all, a helm was the FIRST piece of armor anyone would wear in actual battle, for obvious reasons).

I don't think that's a huge issue, though, and I doubt others care as much.

[Derian]

Yeah, I don't think it's a huge deal as no one is planning on using this ruleset to run an entire new sport.