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Short Sword V. Long Sword
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Author:  Xant [ Thu Apr 16, 2009 9:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Short Sword V. Long Sword

I am still pretty new to belegarth. I have been fighting since januaryish. I usually fight about 10 hours a week, maybe more, 6 of that being with other fighters from numenor, and 4 of that being with my friends that go there also. I have been told my many people that me and my friends are extremly good for only fighting for 3 months.

Now to me. I have been using a long broadsword, with stabbing for maybe 2 months. I am starting to feel that it is to slow and or long, and that i might be better off with say a short broadsword. I do swing pretty fast and or hard, and i feel that the longer sword is just holding me down from performing better wraps and or high crosses.

Given that i am 6'3 and 200 lbs, what is your advice?

Also, i do fight with a standard roundshield also.

Author:  Tails [ Thu Apr 16, 2009 9:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Short Sword V. Long Sword

Xant wrote:
Given that i am 6'3 and 200 lbs, what is your advice?

Also, i do fight with a standard roundshield also.


Do whatever you like; that is my advice, but if you want something less vague then I would say work with the long sword. Shorter sword means you have to get closer. I'm 5'6" and I have fought many people taller then me (I know it's shocking to think about it) and one of the things I have learned is that the taller guys have a harder time up close. Obviously this dose not apply to all people, but just from my experience that's what I have found, but like I said early, do what pleases you.

Author:  Kaimelar Morikayun [ Thu Apr 16, 2009 10:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Short Sword V. Long Sword

I personally am a fan of a sword about 32inches long. You do get a bit more speed and control from a smaller weapon, but as you are so tall, playing to your height advantage with a longer sword can be very wicked. My advice is to try it, see how you like it. If you can get in close up without losing those legs or opening yourself up, your bound to get those high shoulder/back wraps on shorter fighters =P

Author:  Cib [ Thu Apr 16, 2009 10:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Short Sword V. Long Sword

You want advice on red or blue?

For a blue: Hold your sword at your side, the tip should just barley be above the ground. That is your personal perfect length (unless you just don't like it ;) at least, that is what I have heard.

I fight short sword as much as posable (and I am talking shot, like 18-20"), but when I want to win, I switch to a longer one. A short sword make me work hard to get a kill, and makes me overcome my Canadian tendency to STAY FAR WAY from others. We have BIG personal bubbles up here.

Author:  Kenneth [ Thu Apr 16, 2009 11:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Short Sword V. Long Sword

Numenor is the land of the long sword, especially in the fall season when more of the knights/newbies come out. Most people there use swords longer than average compared to the national field.

Numenor also has a higher proportion of mass lines compared to other realms. Mass lines means a lot of sniping shots, because the person who has to close in to fight, is going to get hit by the person in front, from their left, and from their right.

Further, Numenor has traditionally been a land of round shields and heater shields. The abundance of round shields means that Numenoreans typically are better at swinging at legs, and dodging leg shots than most other realms. A person that needs to close in will get punished pretty frequently.

There are relatively few true short-sword users in Numenor. On the other hand, there's generally a better teaching tradition compared to many realms, which means if you do choose to use a short sword, the benefits will pay off once you step on the national field. The vast majority of fighters on the national field have a difficult time fighting at close range.

You're a big guy. Big guys usually have big legs. Big legs means big target area. The people I tend to recommend short swords for are shorter, because they are naturally more inclined to close in.

The only technically strong short sword fighter of your height I can think of in Numenor is Falkor, and he had a long learning curve before he was able to protect his legs. He's also a lefty, so I'm not sure how much of his skill will transfer over. Those short sword fighters in Numenor are typically mini-monsters who munch people who are fighting alone.

As a word of warning, long sword tends to lead itself to a particular style of fighting. That style of fighting becomes much more difficult to implement in Numenoreans, because they tend to have better technical defense.

Obviously, all of this is relative to how long your sword actually is. It sounds like you're using one of the Edhellen long broads, which are usually not that long compared to some of the custom built long swords they make. If I had to take a blind guess, your sword is probably about right for you. Depending on your body proportions, it may actually be a little short for your ideal set-up. You're just not as good at swinging it as you could be in several years.

Author:  Dane [ Fri Apr 17, 2009 7:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Short Sword V. Long Sword

Muscle memory has a lot to do with it. Kenny's by no means a big guy, but he can whip his long sword around with great speed and accuracy. His years of experience, combined with proper body mechanics, allow him to wield a longer, heavier sword with speed similar to what an above-average short sword-user would have.

As Kenny mentioned, the length of sword you use is going to dictate more than your shot speed. It will change the effective range at which you fight your opponent, and that alters innumerable possibilities for and characteristics of your fighting style and tempo.

Find me the next time you're at Numenor practice. I'm the tall, blonde guy in Dark Guard. I'd be glad to discuss with you the different opportunities and growing pains I'm experiencing while using a short sword, and that might help you figure out where you want to go with it.

Author:  Sir Cairbre [ Fri Apr 17, 2009 8:14 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Short Sword V. Long Sword

Cib wrote:

For a blue: Hold your sword at your side, the tip should just barley be above the ground. That is your personal perfect length (unless you just don't like it ;) at least, that is what I have heard.



Cib I have heard this a dozen times and I agree with it and I disagree with it. The logic is flawed. But it has merit. The idea is if it barley touches the ground the sword is the same idea of "as long as it possibly can be with out you having to worry about the ground impeding the recovering of a strike". Theoretically by this method you will never hit your sword into the ground, with a real sword, sometimes they dig into the ground and get stuck, unlike ours that bounce off the dirt. The flaw is most people don't do the measurement in their fighting stance... and most fighters don't have a set fighting stance they recover to either.

I live by 3 lenghts.

Gladius (about 3" or more shorter than a short broad & stabbing) - All your fighting suddenly takes you in very close. Fighting is more difficult and now you have to block, you have to follow raps, and most importantly you have to use your footwork. Flails become your problems, long ones your bane, because you have to get real close to hit your opponent.

Short Broad - Shorter then most weapons out there it is good to learn the closer fight and keep your game on.

Long Broad - The long game. Great for taking legs and my choice on the line. The long sword requires more tip control, and usually a heavier counter weight.

----

I recommend switching up in your length. Carry a match pair of Long Broads, a short broad and a Gladius in your fighter kit.

Author:  Thomas MacFinn [ Fri Apr 17, 2009 8:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Short Sword V. Long Sword

I recommend having a collection of weapons. Even if you find yourself gravitating to 1 or 2 favorites, you will still have plenty of things for other people to try out when they wander into practice.

It also gives you some options:
a) I heard that x weapon or style s*cks
b) I've tried out x weapon or style and it s*cks
c) I think x weapon or style s*cks. Here's one for you to try out and see if you agree.

Author:  p_quick [ Fri Apr 17, 2009 12:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Short Sword V. Long Sword

i almost strictly use a 32inch sword. but sometimes i will range up to a 36 inch sword.

Swords are tools, everyone has there own personal tools, you will use different tools for different situations. when you need a phillips head use a phillips head when you need a standard head go get your standard head.

So i say experiment and find what you like and what you dislike. and don't listen to people telling you what need to use to get better at fighting. its always going to be different strokes for different strokes.

I've tried to convince falkor to use a longer sword for 8 years now, and he still wants his little 29 - 30 inchers

Author:  Mekoot Gorlock [ Fri Apr 17, 2009 12:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Short Sword V. Long Sword

You should come to mel and see how you fight on a field other than numenor.

Author:  Draygon Brightstar [ Fri Apr 17, 2009 12:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Short Sword V. Long Sword

i think a short sword is a lil better then a long sowrd because there quicker then a long sword

Author:  Slagar [ Fri Apr 17, 2009 12:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Short Sword V. Long Sword

Xant, huh? It works well. Good pick.

I don't think your roadblocks at the moment are due to your sword. I think it's about the right length for you. That being said, switching up your style never hurts in the long run, if only by virtue of widening your perspective.

If you're adamant about switching up a bit, I'll lend you one of my hand-and-a-half swords. It's my favorite, by far. Lets you fight at range, but I also choke up to Rogue grip, when I need to get into "headbutting range". Actually, when I fight you, that's what I tend to do, since that's not where you're comfortable.

As to the advice here, Kenny and Peter are probably the two perfect examples of their respective styles. Kenny is a long-range Numenorean, almost stereotypically so. He'll stand behind a perfect defense, and crack any openings you show, at range. Peter is a close range fighter, he loves to grind on his opponents, well inside where they want to be. I try very much to work on being good at both of those, and fight each of them the way he's used to, for the sake of practice. Either one of them could teach you how to be good at their specialty, and they both do very well with it.

That being said, I prefer a generalist approach. A fighter who can do what both of them do, well that's pretty much game over. There isn't one, as far as I know, but that's the generalist ideal. Fight wherever, however. That's why I use the swords I do, but obviously I'm nowhere near either of them in their specialty.

The upshot of all that crap is that you need to not only figure out what works for you, but you need to keep in mind that there are going to be fighters who fight in a way that you don't like. When I'm sparring you, I switch to rogue grip, and get in your face, because you don't like it, so it works. If you were the other way 'round, I'd drop to a long grip, and switch to an a-frame, and snipe you at range. Whatever you want to do, just keep in mind not to close your options off too much.

Author:  Physic [ Fri Apr 17, 2009 12:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Short Sword V. Long Sword

Long swords are better in melee fighting especially line fights.

Short swords are better one on one.


Style is a major factor in both of these. If you like to close, go with the short sword. If you want to play the range game, go with the longer sword.

Author:  Black Cat [ Fri Apr 17, 2009 6:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Short Sword V. Long Sword

I'm going to try fighting this year with a 30" Ninjato and a 40" Katana/Broadsword hybrid. I'm mostly going to single-blue and florentine with this combo, but I plan on building a round shield with a tiger design on the cover later this year.

I'll let you guys know how it goes once I can get some experience with the set.

P.S: Forkbeard, where do you get your 1/2" round fiberglass rods from? I need some for these swords.

(I'll just foamsculpt like Thomas MacFinn does to get the curves in the blade)

Author:  Arrakis [ Sat Apr 18, 2009 9:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Short Sword V. Long Sword

Good discussion in here.

How long are we talking for these Numenorian long arming swords? 38"? 40"? 44"??

I'm finding my favorite blades to be 35 or 36-inchers (stabbing, of course). They give me the range I need for arm sniping and let me wind all up around shields and get right up in someone's face, too.

Possibly relevant: I'm 6'1" ~200#.

Author:  bo1 [ Sat Apr 18, 2009 11:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Short Sword V. Long Sword

ya usually, except kenny, i see 36 as the max length i run into. on the short side it is 32, sometimes 30.

Author:  Draygon Brightstar [ Sun Apr 19, 2009 6:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Short Sword V. Long Sword

My swords dont go past the 38" mark

Author:  Kerb [ Thu Apr 23, 2009 2:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Short Sword V. Long Sword

This is all a matter of what you are looking to do in this game, and your are essentially asking the wrong question.
The question is not what type of weapon you should use, the question is are you here to be a great fighter and constantly advance or are you here to have fun and have a good time fighting?

If you are looking for the first option the answer is use both, sort of like PQuick said, you have tools and they are all handy for certain situations, but if you have a hammer to drive a nail and only ever used a screwdriver your gonna have a hard time because you don't know how to use a hammer effectively.

If you are looking for option two the answer is to use what ever makes you happiest. Who cares what you use, if hammers are what you enjoy hammer away.

Author:  MagnusofDregoth [ Tue Apr 28, 2009 2:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Short Sword V. Long Sword

I think Kenny's advice about Numenor-style fighting is something you definitely have to keep in mind, along with Peter's. But, your sword grip can also have a profound effect on your fighting style and range.

For example, I, like Peter, prefer to use swords around 32 inches (with stabbing tips) and I generally use the same grip that Peter does--on a hilt of about 8 inches, gripping up at the top, by the base of the blade, with the thumb up on the flat. This makes for a short effective range, but a very stable grip (especially for defense) and a lot of control, which is important for stabbing (at any distance) and for complex wrap and slot shots.

However, if I find myself in a line fight, or another situation where it is beneficial NOT to close in (maybe I am fighting someone in a loose line, where there is a need to be able to disengage and defend from an opponent coming in from the side) I will tend to pommel fight, gripping the sword at the base of the grip (on or by the pommel) and using it to make fairly safe, low-commitment shots such as Kenny was describing.

So, I recommend you build a sword between 32 and 36 inches in length, with a grip long enough that you can choke up for increased stability and control or slide down for greater range.

Author:  Jerlaine Trefenwyn [ Tue Apr 28, 2009 10:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Short Sword V. Long Sword

I personally like a good 28-30 inch now I stand at 6ft 1 and am currently about 215lbs.. I also use a shield. However I do change my fighting style being that I'm from Ered Duath originally where they like to get close and personal sometimes I learned that yes shorter weapons work. However the short sword isn't for everyone I cop out and use a flail but it works perfectly especially for those noobs that don't take there shots how you can not take a sword hit but notice the flail hitting you I will never understand. Now I was told to go with your arm length for your personal style of sword might I also suggests not using a broadsword try a regular one out and see how you like it... Oh and black cat I know how you fight I strongly suggest working on your speed and using basic long swords like me and pierce were trying to teach you about 2 samhaines ago I think it was....

Author:  Black Cat [ Wed Apr 29, 2009 1:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Short Sword V. Long Sword

Jerlaine19 wrote:
Oh and black cat I know how you fight I strongly suggest working on your speed and using basic long swords like me and pierce were trying to teach you about 2 samhaines ago I think it was....


The 30-32 inch ninjato is mostly going to be a sidearm. If I sword-and-board, I'll be using the 40-42 inch broadsword as my primary weapon. Or I might make a 36-37 inch Jian straightsword. (of the Warring States style) Which of the two would be better to get first?

I won't be sword-and-boarding at Yestare though. For that event, I will be using a 6 1/2 foot single-edged glaive with a shield-hook on the non-striking side. If I can't get it made in time for the event for some reason, I will be using an 8 1/2 foot green spear instead.

Edit: Yes it was two SamHains ago. I didn't go to the last one because it got rained out.

Author:  Arrakis [ Wed Apr 29, 2009 8:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Short Sword V. Long Sword

Black Cat wrote:
If I sword-and-board, I'll be using the 40-42 inch broadsword as my primary weapon. Or I might make a 36-37 inch Jian straightsword. (of the Warring States style) Which of the two would be better to get first?


The 36-37" will be more versatile and likely be much much faster, especially if you counterweight it up to around 20 oz.

Author:  shizuo [ Wed Jun 25, 2014 4:43 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Short Sword V. Long Sword

I would definitely choose long sword because its long just joking its because of its impact when the short and long sword hit each other and the weight too.

Author:  Sir Thurat [ Wed Jun 25, 2014 5:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Short Sword V. Long Sword

Shizou, be sure to check the date of the last post in a thread before responding. For example, this particular thread has been dead since April of 2009. It's your first post here, so no stress, but bare in mind that it's considered bad form to "necro" old threads. If you would care to renew the discussion on something (e.g., effect of sword length of block strength), then you may start a new thread.

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