Glaive fighters unite

[Eisenwolf]

hey everyone. i just joined the forum today, and i was wanting to see how many glaive fighters there were out there who wanted to talk shop. i've been messing around with belegarth-type fighting for a few years, but noly seriously started fighting regularly in the last few months. i was raised traditional longsword, but i picked up a glaive and fell in love with it, as it compensates for my lack of natural reach, but is well complimented by my natural agility and control. so anyways, i just wanted to hear from anyone who uses glaives and hopefully learn a few new tricks. thanks for your time!

[Azgarehta]

I fight spear, but some tips to remember about stabbing: Footwork sets your stable base. You should be fighting mostly sideways for a smaller profile. Your weight should shift back to front. To make a solid, bone-jarring hit, you should pull your weight to your front foot, rotate slightly at the hips, back straight, putting the force up through your shoulders, and it will throw your spear forward with a whip-like motion.

You should keep your body loose, but straight. The best practice for this is to get a blue sword with a stabby tip, and practice underhand stabs with it, its the exact same motion.

[Bahku]

Make sure you have a stabbing tip!!!

[Poo]

to become a great glaive fighter, you should start by becoming a great spear fighter. as forkbeard once said, once you can kill people regularly with just a spear, then you're ready to pick up a glaive.

[Arrakis]

Watch the 09 SKBC Pole class with Axgar and Warblade. Oh, ye gods, yes, watch it.

[The Lost Celt]

Pretty basic but when you're on the line target the next guy over or the next guy instead of the one in front of you, if that's not working out stab the corners on the shields to open them up for other players or spearmen, if you have a hook, use it.

What poo said is right, though, if you're long glaive your focus should be the stabbing portion, your only defense is your offense for the most part and the goal is maintaining that distance - so you have to keep them too busy to think of charging.

Shield breaking is a luxury, on a tight line honestly it can be too dangerous if you're in a position for only overhead strikes, this is where red swords are better off. I'd be more likely to gimp or kill 2-3 people in the time it takes me to break one shield, and if I was one on one I'd be less likely to be able to draw my sidearm and defend myself properly before the shieldman closed in on a red strike vs. green.

[Azgarehta]

I'm with arrakis on this one. First thing I did when I picked up a spear was watch SKBC with Axgar and Warblade. I watch it once a week now just to make sure I don't miss anything. They go over the Fundamentals of EVERYTHING, so you can never watch it enough:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGQCx14_LVg

Also, there's a guy called Grumio who gives you the 101-106 of spear fighting. This is some of the great stuff as well. I watch it often:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=saLipF1jWZ8

SKBC Advanced Polearm by Warlord Tar'get. This helps you a lot with working with sword fighters, he points out mistakes polemen make and how to work within a team:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_IdvWwwTcA

[The Lost Celt]

Where are these guys from?

I'd love to do one on one with any of them for any extended amount of time.

Thanks for posting those links, I think I'll be doing the same...

[Poo]

you wouldn't want to fight axgar for an extended period of time. i guarantee it.

[Azgarehta]

Grumio's vids say he's from Dagorhir, so I'd assume you'd find him at a national event. I'm not sure if he says what part of the country he's from, or which regionals he goes to, but he did mention Rag, but I suppose there's a lot of people that go to Rag.

[Eisenwolf]

sweet beans. glad to hear from everyone. :-) my glaive had a bit of an accident after a particulary violent match. the padding is coming off my bamboo core. :-( so sadly today i had to make due without my pride and joy. but anyways, on with the topic, i was wondering how everyone out there holds their weapon as a default stance. i personally prefer the spear approach, as i started with a spear first and was always taught that 8 feet of long and pointy is useless unless it's between you and the other guy, but i've seen some pretty interesting stances out there... also, i'm debating adding a shield to my setup, and am wondering if anyone out there has any words of wisdom as far as glaives and sheilds go... thanks again for the posts!

[Dabbanoth]

bamboo core

Mistake.

[Cade]

bamboo core

Mistake.

As much as i love bamboo in principle, yea for a glaive i wouldn't use anything but bandshop fiberglass.

I have seen some absurdly light and effective bamboo spears, and bamboo works ok for short blue swords that your not really hitting all that hard with, but anything that your really laying into a swing with, I wouldn't use bamboo. The Joints just have a tendency to snap at random times.

On an unrelated note:

Shieldbreaking: Does anyone have any tips for generating shield breaking force from maybe a four foot swing? When I'm coming straight down at someone, no problem. Easy red hit, but when i just stabbed out and was blocked, i like to pop my glaive back up from the ground into my opponents thigh/shield and the swing is only about four feet. The swing is nice and distracting, sometimes takes the leg of someone who isn't paying attention, but it's rarely hard enough for a shieldbreaking hit. Any thoughts?

[Arrakis]

Backhand grip with your forward hand (both thumbs pointing in) and use dem hips.

[Poo]

Breaking shields isn't everything in red fighting. Watching killian fight with a glaive at kill n grill did a lot to form my concepts of red fighting. Why would you want to waste 2 shots on hitting something that won't kill the person. If you have another opening, say a quick stap to the shoulder, or right hip, take it. Otherwise, straight down was the main way i saw killian breaking shields. Also, don't just throw 2 red shots if you have the opening and range on a shieldman. Throw 3 or 4, either they won't be hard enough, or you'll limb or kill them while just trying to break their shield.

So, it doesn't need to be a shield breaking hit. Pop the leg real quick, or jump back behind your teammates, and throw murder strikes from the roof.

On bamboo; bad for swung weapons. I broke it in amtgard all the time. However, i have a 6' 20oz spear that's just mean.

[Cade]

thanks.

good tips both.

[Isk]

On generating the power, like Arrakis said, use your hips. Also, don't just swing the sword. Lever it. As you get to the end of a swing, or starting from fairly close, you push toward the opponent with you forward hand and twist your hips while you pull back hard with the rear hand, essentially turning your forward hand into a moving fulcrum and generating a ton of power out at the end of your red weapon. If that's unclear, let me know and I'll try again.

[Azgarehta]

Just like Isk said, your glaive is essentially a giant lever. Where you put your forward hand determines where your power will be. Here's an 8 foot spear.

fig. A <-----|--|-

In figure A we see that both hands are towards the back of the spear. This is best used with palms down, what I call the "Oar Position". (Same hand position as rowing a boat with an oar) This is effective within a shield wall because of maximum distance. You also hold it in a high guard, with hands above your shoulders. This is most effective at blocking Javelins and quick, low power jabs.

fig. B <---|----|-

In fig. B we see that we have choked up on the spear, giving us more control over the lever by moving the fulcrum forward. This is best used with the forward hand palm up, and the back hand palm down, in what I call the "Reverse Hockey Position", because its like holding a hockey stick, only your favored hand is on the back of the spear, not on the bottom of the stick. How this position is most effectively used is in parrying, because if you have a good grip over your end of the lever, even hard red hits will not move the spear far where in the first grip they will fling it all over the place (simple lever physics tells us as much). Also, you should be wielding this from a lower position, with your back hand by your hip, and you forward hand out in front. This position will give you a lot of power from hip thrusts.

There are many variations on these two themes, but for the most part, its either high or low guard, and flipping your front hand palm up or down.

[Arrakis]

Azgarehta, don't neglect the side of the body your pole is on. It's way easier to jack a righty sword'n'board guy with a round shield if you're right hand-forward, left hand back, oar position, low. You can just beast him right under the edge of his shield, where a corner would be on a square. I wouldn't want to try the same thing from left-hand forward, oar, low.

[Azgarehta]

You're right about that, Arrakis. I neglected to say that I'm Ambidextrous, so I usually switch to "Right Handed Hockey Grip"/right side forward, if I want to be able to take the quick shots on the sword side. For me, I've found that the forward hand palm up and choked up on the spear makes me more comfortable and controlling with parries and defense.

Using the 'backwards' position on a spear is just like fighting left handed. If you can get used to it, you have a lot more shots on their sword side. Remember, if you're fighting with a shieldman, you always want to fight with your back to his shield side, so its easier for him to block projectiles (if he's a good shieldman) If you switch 'backwards' you should take a half step back, and cheat your distance a little. By appearing to have less length than you truly have, and spearing backwards you surprise people by how far you can hit them, and the angles the shots are coming from.

[Eisenwolf]

yeah. i'm learning bamboo isn't so nice for a glaive. oh wellsies. for a first attempt at glaive making it could've turned out much worse i guess. but anyways,dows anyone have any input as far as using shields with glaives goes?

[Cade]

I alternate between a backshield and a small 13 inch buckler strapped to my arm. I'm leaning towards the buckler though.

Backshields are nice for obvious reasons, but they lack any sort of control. If something is coming at you, you have to turn around and thats not a great thing to do on a line. And if your line knows what it's doing, they will block anything coming in anyway. Great for solo fighting or those random flankers who just run in and don't pay attention to what they are hitting.

Bucklers...im not good at using them yet...im trying to get better, but you have a lot more control, and i find it's much much more useful for defending against arrows and javs...which seem to be the biggest issues for a pole fighter.

currently i strap it to my right forearm because thats the side i keep out front. The only real downside to it aside from the fact it takes more skill to use, is that sometimes it messes with my arm mobility, but i think thats just mostly due to me not being used to it yet.

[Eisenwolf]

yeah i was thinking of making a targe style buckler to wear on my left side because that's my non-dominant side. (although with a stick i'm for all intents and purposes ambidextrous, having been a lacrosse player for 5 years) so i tend to lead left but if i get tired or want to mess with my opponent or exploit their off side i'll switch over with ease. i'm told that the trademark of a good buckler is that it does its job without one having to move it around a whole lot. (meaning that footwork is the better half of a successful buckler defense) which i find to be good, as my mentality has always been that the best way to block a swing is to be somewhere else when it comes.

[Forkbeard]

I wear my shield on my right/front arm. Magnus wears his on the left/rear arm.
I don't know which is right, or better. I like having mine on the arm that gets the most ation(the front). This is of course based on the idea of standing sidways to the bad guys.
I just made a HUGE shield to strap to my bisep instead of my forearm. It is 36" wide and shaped like combination of a kite sheild and a painters pallet. I haven't used it yet. I took it out in theyard and went through my usual spear motions, it'sperfect so far.
After practice next week I'll know if it's gonna work. THere's pictures of it on facebook,(Mary's page) I gotta get her to move them here.
Anyway, Glaives VS Spears. I don't use my glaives at practice. I either use spear or red sword(4'). You get all the red practice you need with the shorty and the only other **** you need to know about glaive you can learn from a spear that is cheaper to make and won't break on you right before a war. My glaives are have lasted years this way. They were expensive to make and I don't like the idea of trashing them at practice.
Spear is much less hard on your body, too
I can't believe I responded to thread by a guy named douchwolf.
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[Eisenwolf]

I can't believe I responded to thread by a guy named douchwolf.

haha. Ich heisse Deutscherwolf wiel ich deutsch kann. ;-) Warum heisst du denn Forkbeard?

But for true though, thanks for the tips. I think I'm gonna start using a spear at practice. How big are your glaives?

[Forkbeard]

About 8'+stab tip and pommell. So is the spear I use.
They are sweet. I made the glaives by taking Edhellen shield edge foam pieces and cutting channels in them like giat sword re-blade kits. I used nerf football foam for the stabtips. They are light(relativly) and really fast. They have lasted going on 5 years now just from not using them at practice. I don't need to practice killing punk as local kids with George and Weazy(that's their names). I like to save them for my hard to kill freinds from out of town.
Spear skill is really the heart of glaive work, anyway. Especialy if you're using a long pole. Spear is the hardest weapon to become good with in Belegarth. I feel like this is becuase people don't take shots that deflact off of them. I don't blame them, it's just a fact. A real spear would catch much more easily in clothing and equipment than their foam couterparts. THey are also relly **** small and moving at you really fast. Also unlike our foam spears. Once you can actually fight people with a spear, not just run around sniping people who aren't looking, you are definently ready to start killing the **** out of people with a glaive.
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