Post Pivoting

[Ikeno_Dathorion]

I was watching a video that Bakhdar made with someone and he was talking about Pivoting on a dead leg. I was curious as to if this was still allowed or if it has been changed to having to kneel only?

[Dane]

Not allowed. For purposes of the sparring, posting the dead leg keeps both fighters on their feet. This helps to keep up the pace of the sparring while sparing both fighters' knees.

If you get hit in the leg, drop to a knee.

[Eisenwolf]

hey quick question on this one, if i have been legged am i still allowed to spring from my good leg? i have done this a few times with varying results and i'd never do it in a larger battle, but i've ended up winning some one on ones after the guy legged me because he grew * and got close enough for a spring and a stab. is that belegarth/dagorhir legal though?

[Juicer]

Don't do that. Keep your dead knee on the ground.

[Isk]

Don't do that. Keep your dead knee on the ground.

Why? Lunging off the good leg has been legal IME (just so long as you only lunge off the good leg and let the other hang).

[Tonaho]

It's let me do some pretty daring cool moves, even if they weren't always that effective. I've won at least one 1v1 battle like that, dagger vs spear. Still not sure how that worked.

[Eisenwolf]

yeah it's definately only a last resort move if i'm legged facing a red or even a long blue. i have crappy natural reach, so if my mobility is gone than i'm toast. in a battle situation though i probably wouldn't try that just because i try to be somewhat fairl in realisticness, and a simo kill is still a loss as far as the whole life thing goes. :-/ but then again, so is losing a leg for the most part. haha. whatevs. that aside though, it's legal and such?

[semtater]

Haha, being in Isk's realm is quite fun in that respect. But it kills the heck out of your knees. I can get across a quarter of our field lengthwise before I'm either too tired to move on, or my knees are too bruised up. It's a good tactical maneuver, but only in close range. When it gets to be too far away... give up. Lol.

[Isk]

We are not talking about a tactic to move across the field. This is a lunge that can be useful for striking someone who is a little out of range when you're gimped. It generally leaves you really exposed and will get you killed if the person you attack has any friends or is expecting it. It can work well if they don't expect it, though, and you should not be doing this so often that your knees are sore from this. When you are gimped, you move slowly on the gimped leg, dragging it. No knee running.

[Eisenwolf]

sweet deal. nice to know i can keep that move up my sleeve if i'm pressed. btw i like your listed favorite style Isk. :-)

[Juicer]

Don't do that. Keep your dead knee on the ground.

Seriously.

[Aleksii]

Keep fighting the good fight juicer.

[Slagar]

Don't do that. Keep your dead knee on the ground.

See, what Juicer's trying to say is, "Don't do that". It isn't legal. On the national field, lunging while legged will get you called dead, and mocked.

If your local realm plays by house rules, and allows it, that's one thing. Don't do it anywhere else, because it is illegal.

[Davit]

I'm trying to figure how it's not legal. If you are only using your live leg, how does a lunge constitute an illegal action in our game? Where in our rules does it say "using the live leg constitutes death."? Please enlighten me as to why this would be illegal.

[Dane]

The text in the BoW is ambiguous.

3.7.6. If an opponent has both knees on the ground, a strike to either Leg is considered to have struck the good Leg. If the opponent is lunging or rolling around and has a disabled Leg and is hit in either, it is considered a hit to the uninjured Leg.
3.7.7. A Combatant who has their Leg disabled must either crawl on his/her knees or be realistically supported.

3.7.6 offers hit determinations for legged fighters that are lunging or rolling around. That the bolded part is included implies that a legged and lunging/rolling fighter is a common and accepted occurrence.
3.7.7 says a person with a dead leg has to crawl on his or her knees or be "realistically supported" (usually someone acting as a walk-along crutch). I read this as saying a fighter can't motivate beyond knee-walking or stride-and-drag.

Kegg?

[Juicer]

There's a difference between lunging forward while still keeping contact with the ground, and lunging up and forward, which is the great strategy these guys are talking about. The BoW is ambiguous on this, but it is generally accepted (at least in Babylon) that the "noob hop" is pretty much equivalent to standing on one leg (which is not allowed, last time I checked) for a short period of time.

Now, by all means, correct me on this. But if this silly move is legal, can I get an exact amount of time that I am allowed to stand on one leg? Do I get a limited amount, or can I just keep doing it as long as my knee touches the ground in between?

Now if you'll excuse me, I'll be in War Council General Discussion fixing this.

[Mekoot Gorlock]

I would say that a lunge using only the good leg to push with is fine (often times silly and poor tactics because you over extend yourself and open either leg to being hit) but acceptable. If it is used repeatedly to stay in an almost standing position it would get you called dead, if your dead leg is used to push you would be called dead (in almost every case I have seen people use both legs), if you get hit in either leg while you are in the air you are dead, if you get hit on the way up or down in the leg you are dead. As soon as your knee leaves the ground if you get hit in either leg you are dead.

Also if I knew you were someone who did this I would sit and wait a a distance I thought you would lunge for and kick the **** out of your shield so that you learn better. There are very few situations where this would lend you a real advantage. Then again maybe that is different if you are short, I'm still taller than some people on the field when I am on a knee.

[Tonaho]

The post pivoting I agree is definitely a no. If you lose a leg, lose the leg.

For the lunge, yes, it's silly, and it may be slightly unrealistic, but from what I've seen, it doesn't happen enough to really matter (I only do it about once a month, two at most, and that's between two practices a week) It's only worked for me once, which made me feel very accomplished. It nearly worked a second time, which led the other party to kill me and if I'm not mistaken, helped urge him on to making sure his opponents were dead before he just turned his back to them.
I honestly don't think this happens often enough to enforce a rule specifically about it. Let heralds say no to it, and if the herald doesn't stop it, show the lunger who's boss. Leg them in the air, let them drop and kill them while they're spread out on the ground, hell, sit on them and stab them with something. Embarass them out of doing it Juicer.

[Sir Anastasia]

Don't worry...lungers will need their knee replacements sooner than the rest of us. Ha!

[The Great Gigsby]

The post pivoting I agree is definitely a no. If you lose a leg, lose the leg.

Posting is a house rule kind of thing. People usually do it if they have a leg injury, or are fighting on bad terrain --like concrete or mud-- and only if they've agreed on it beforehand.

"Leg on death" is a better alternative IMO - it gets people out of the habit of going for the leg as an opener and saves you the trouble of having to drop to your knees. If you don't know, leg on death just means that you only count a hit to your leg if it would have killed you.

[Forkbeard]

This is NOT hopping on one foot.
I have always thought that if one wished to gather one's good leg underneath themselves, they could definetly use it to spring at they're opponents.
No where in the rules does it say that my dead leg's knee HAS to stay in contact with the ground. It say's tat if the dead knee is not on th ground and I get hit in that dead leg, I am dead. Nothing else.
Lunging from a kneeling position is not the Newbie Hop. It is totally legal. Hopping on one foot is not and is dangerous.
FB

[Satanaka]

I don't see where a lung is an issue- the landing is gonna be tough if it is done right- cause yuo are gonna fall face first. if you catch yourself with both legs and then lower back down- then I think you cheated. If you can use the good leg to lunge and fall flat on your face- I think it is realistic and a good move (if landed) even if you missed- at least you did the lunge right.

I have seen the ones that try to lunge and then stand straight up and sorta 'hop' - or they use the good leg to land- i frown on that and will call someone on that.

[Big King Jimmy]

This is my take on lunging... I don't think it's illegal. However, it falls under a few things in the sport that are gonna make people THINK you're cheating. You can only lunge using power from your good leg. I'm not saying that a person can't do that, like it's impossible. I'm saying I don't think it's possible to do and LOOK like you're only using your good leg. In the sport it's peoples view of you that determines whether or not your cheating. If you look like a cheater, you're gonna be thought of as one.

[Eisenwolf]

Yeah. Lunging is a definate last resort, and I can definately see how this might be best dealt with on a house rules basis. But then I'd just rather not let the other guy get my leg. ('Tis but a flesh wound!) I suppose I could always just gnaw their ankles off instead...

[Isk]

I think this has been discussed, resolved and we have moved on so don't feel any need to respond to this post. However, at a visit to a neighbor realm this weekend we happened to catch a series of photos that, IMO, are a pretty good example of the gimp lunge done correctly. So I am posting them here with the intention of clarifying this for anyone who got lost in the text and needs an image.

Remember, this move is only legal if ALL of the power comes from the good leg and it will often get you killed, but, like many other shots, it has a place and is sometimes worth using. When heralding the times that I have called someone out for lunging are when the dead leg comes forward to give that extra little hop. If the weight ever shifts to the foot of the dead leg (not the knee), it's cheating.

Weight on dead, rear leg, so the front can be gotten out of the way of a swing:

Decided swing will whiff or be blocked, weight already shifted to good leg for lunging:

The lunge. Notice the rear foot especially. It has been kept slack and allowed to drag out to it's full length. The tops of the toes still resting on the ground are a good indication it was not used for power:

The weakest, most exposed portion of this move:

Still recovering, but able to mount a defense or roll. Holding the opponents sword to the ground:

Grabbing the handle to control the opponent's weapon:


Incidentally, since he was able to take control of his opponent's sword, the fighter on the left did win this exchange so the lunge paid off.

[Geshtal]

hey quick question on this one, if i have been legged am i still allowed to spring from my good leg? i have done this a few times with varying results and i'd never do it in a larger battle, but i've ended up winning some one on ones after the guy legged me because he grew * and got close enough for a spring and a stab. is that belegarth/dagorhir legal though?

Yeah i stopped doing that after one time i missed landed on my back and took a Red Swing to the groin It was a chop straight down into the danglies

[Eisenwolf]

Bad luck there, mate. haha. Hope your kids aren't spe-shul.

[Geshtal]

You and me both brother you and me both