Discussion: Situation 1 (2 Righty SnBs)

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Discussion: Situation 1 (2 Righty SnBs)

Postby Spork » Tue Aug 18, 2009 9:35 pm

Since this is the "Fighter Skill Development & Training" I think the topic fits best in here. However, I can move the discussion elsewhere if the majority sees it fit.

I'm going to start a discussion set of topics that I believe will promote and let us fighters develop. I know Kyrian had something similar to this in the History, Warfare, and Tactics forums, but I believe his was based on smaller unit vs. unit tactics. This was also a couple of years ago, I believe.

Brief summary of what I'm trying to accomplish:

I'm going to set up a brief situation/scenario of YOU (YOU being whomever wishes to respond to this thread) against a set group of fighters (2 or more, never higher than 5). I'd like to hear discussion on what exactly YOU would do in the situation. I'd like to hear this from someone who started fighting last week to someone who has been playing for ten years. The situations could be the final confrontation at a national event, trial for your unit, or something you've encountered during practice when the numbers dwindle. Now, keep in mind that "YOU" is whatever weapon set you use, whatever style you feel comfortable in, etc. Assume the opponents are slightly above average fighters, however if you feel as though you want to place excellent fighters in their place, feel free.

I feel as though this fits in here, because by promoting healthy discussion on different ways to approach common situations. It'll help fighters develop different ways to take down multiple opponents of different equipment sets.

The first situation is something I feel is very very common, seeing as how 70% of the fighters are right handed sword and board users. This is a situation that most of the fighters come across, minus 1v1 sparring.

Situation:
YOU vs. two right handed sword and board fighters. For discussion purposes, you are starting roughly 20 feet apart. Both sides have no wounds. Feel free to imagine them however, with armor or without, etc. Please include in your response what specific type of equipment they're using if it is something other than a standard round and a ~30" sword. Typical changes could be med. punch, etc.
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Re: Discussion: Situation 1 (2 Righty SnBs)

Postby Winfang » Wed Aug 19, 2009 7:39 am

I will attempt to create distance between the two fighters or make so I only engage one person at a time.

The most common way that people accomplish by circling around them until only one is squared up against you. This is stringing out the fighters, which has been called the Ninja Turtle tactic. You will only be fighting one person while the other person is acting like the a Foot Clan solider.

Another common way is to leg one person and try to pull the other away or use them as a blocker by circling around.

One of my favorite things to do is to spook the smaller or lesser skilled of the two fighters, which cause them to jump back or be off guard, and then attack the stronger fighter. I usually spook them by faking a shield bash or being really aggressive towards them. This can buy me a second or two to attack the stronger or larger fighter unimpeded. This relies a lot on intimidation and reputation to spook someone but it also requires having a good sense of field awareness to know how long you have to make your attack.

A lot of it is situational and depends on what I feel I can get away with. Having a good knowledge of who is attacking me helps out immensely.
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Re: Discussion: Situation 1 (2 Righty SnBs)

Postby Solusar » Wed Aug 19, 2009 8:19 am

Winfang pretty much said it all. I will add that I would likely fake out the person the left and attack the person on the right with the second or two i bought myself. Way too many people fight with medium or bigger punch shields so "Leg and leave" isn't always a choice, but it's one of the first things I try, usually in conjunction with backpedaling and circling. I also fight very reactionary and rarely aggressive when facing two or more people. The more shots I throw, the more I expose myself to them. When in these situations I go for limbs mostly. Arms, legs and shoulders are my primary targets.
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Re: Discussion: Situation 1 (2 Righty SnBs)

Postby Spork » Wed Aug 19, 2009 9:11 am

I guess it's only fair for me to respond, although I'm not as skilled as some so take mine with a grain of salt.

Whenever I'm approached with this situation I always tend to wound/kill the rightmost player because I'm a right-handed SnB user myself. This tends to offer more defense from attacks from the leftmost fighter because the shield is on my left side. I use an above average length sword in my main hand when fighting multiple opponents to make use of range. As both of you previously mentioned, trying to lure an opponent out, even for a split second, can present an opportunity to wound/kill. I've also noticed that legging a two man team can sometimes create a harder situation because luring and movement is extremely difficult for legged opponents.

I've also found that feigning left on the rightmost fighter, stepping right, and using a straight slot seems to come in quite handy because you're not getting close enough to engage in "in" fighting while utilizing weapon length.
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Re: Discussion: Situation 1 (2 Righty SnBs)

Postby Azgarehta » Wed Aug 19, 2009 12:00 pm

I'm using a spear, so I'm at a disadvantage anyway.

Two ways to go about this. Either I:

1) run like hell to one side and engage them one at a time while staying at range, taking pot shots at legs to seperate the two.

2) charge one of the shieldmen, lay a spear or a shoulder into his shield and knock him over and hope the other shieldman is suprised enough not to kill me in the back.

Either way I'm probably dead, but the second I'm not running all over the place getting tired.
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Re: Discussion: Situation 1 (2 Righty SnBs)

Postby Michael » Wed Aug 19, 2009 3:10 pm

Winfang hit on most of it very well. Staying disengaged as long as possible until I can engage one of the two without the other being able to support him is job one. Circling is the best way to do this. Moving away entirely can also work if you are faster than at least one of them. The might not stick together. Still Winfang's circling works better because it plays upon the one advantage you have over them. Coordination is easier for one than for two. They can get in each other's way.

Also as Winfang said who it is attacking me matters a lot. Some two man combos include a fighter I am confident of killing in a shot or two without taking a wound. I only need to get that guy separated for a few seconds.

With better figthers, the leg and leave approach has more value. If I allow them to get next to each other facing me, I probably made a mistake already if they play smart. However, in such cases, crossing is more dangerous than ever. (plenty of posts on this board about why not to cross.) Doing it in a situation where two opponents can take advantage is not recommended. Wraps on the opponent to the right while moving away from the one to the left are my best bet but if I let them get next to eachother and in engagement range with me, I pretty much need them to make a mistake or things look grim.
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Re: Discussion: Situation 1 (2 Righty SnBs)

Postby bo1 » Wed Aug 19, 2009 4:33 pm

playing out this situation, if i cannot out skill them, they are my equals, and they dont make any mistakes, letting them selves get singled out, it would be hard for me to win.

now if i ignore these obvious problems, i could use movement to position them so only 1 is in threat range. kill them and rinse and repeat. that is the only real option. everything else is a long shot.

micheal, you know you would never wrap shot them, it just isnt your style.

lol

practice fighting 3 fighters at practice, i used to do it till i won against them. them i do 4, then 5. now i come from a realm that doesnt have many good fighters. usually like 3 at practice is all, so i have to stack the deck agaisnt me.
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Re: Discussion: Situation 1 (2 Righty SnBs)

Postby The Great Gigsby » Wed Aug 19, 2009 7:01 pm

I'm fighting lefty sword and board [32 inch sword/small strap tear drop]. I'm throwing something a little different out here. Instead of circling or drawing my opponents out right off the bat, I will position myself in the middle, and try to keep them as close together as possible. My goal is to bait one of them into crossing (probably the guy on my left), for two reasons. One - it will draw that person into their buddy, tying them a up a bit, and two - it'll likely expose their arm or leg. If they instead try to flank me, I'll bail and reset.

If I can make them make the mistake of intercepting eachothers shots and advances, then their balance, range, and reload time is all messed up, and I can really try to light up at least one of them or just harass them with a shield edge.

Now, if I were using a spear, I would be circling like mad, and shooting for a leg. If I can outrun them and keep them at range, then I can usually win just by wearing them out. If one of them closes, I'm probably dead meat, but I'll choke up and try to shank that person in the side. It's a better option than just giving up.
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Re: Discussion: Situation 1 (2 Righty SnBs)

Postby Isk » Thu Aug 20, 2009 11:32 am

One of the great ways to practice this that no one has mentioned yet in this thread is to play Power. Power puts one person as The Power and everyone is trying to kill that one person. The Power can only win if they kill everyone. If (when) someone kills The Power they become The Power and everyone except the old power resurrects. We have started finishing the night with this game as it is a great game for facing multiple opponents and it usually burns up any energy you might have left after fighting all evening. I recommend playing this with ~10 or less people. It can be played with more, but it becomes very, very hard for The Power and with 10 decent fighters there will already likely not be a winner until everyone is getting really tired.
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Re: Discussion: Situation 1 (2 Righty SnBs)

Postby Satanaka » Thu Aug 20, 2009 2:51 pm

wait till they get within 15 ft- and use the power of my Heralds Tunic and call them dead...
:devil:

Sorry- Winfang had my answer- actually the best answer that came to my mind. BUT he said it first. That is the most sound tactic- except for the part about intimidating via shield bash or something- I am shorter- so I'd have to use more ofthe 'leg and leave' and keep moving to try to herd them where I wanted them. At this point- I call in a few of my favors from "Luck" and hope for the best.

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Re: Discussion: Situation 1 (2 Righty SnBs)

Postby Kerb » Mon Sep 14, 2009 10:13 pm

My main response is to determine which of the two fighters is the more aggressive, this person is going to lose his regard for his teammate quicker, so I will wait for them to get about 7-10' away then step/juke towards the less aggressive player, this will make the more aggressive player run into his buddy or close off his buddy. Then spring back the other direction to take the more aggressive in a one on one. If I can leg this person while springing back all the better, as they will now go down right in front of the other one and usually cause a giant pile up because the second fighter is trying to catch up and get back to the formation.
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Re: Discussion: Situation 1 (2 Righty SnBs)

Postby MagnusofDregoth » Thu Sep 17, 2009 6:14 pm

That's a good point, Kerb.

My approach is generally to run in circles from the beginning. As Michael said, letting the two (or more) opponents get next to each other facing me is the ultimate mistake, and if I start circling as soon as I can, I stand a much better chance to prevent that from happening.

Running in circles, however, doesn't accomplish much by itself. My experience is much like Kerb's, in that once I have a sense of who among my opponents is most likely to attack, I can exploit that to my advantage. I want to change from just running in circles out of range to darting in for an attack and to draw out an opponent. The important thing, though, is to get my opponents in a line and then circle (as Winfang said) such that I am looking down this line. That way, the fighters behind the first person can't attack me, making it more or less even odds.

In general, you want to move such that your opponents have to line up. For example, if you have three opponents in an equilateral triangle, you want to get on one side of the triangle, and then either stand there or back up. By doing this, you make the person at the corner opposite this side advance to be in line with his or her teammates. Then, you just go left or right (in a circle, I would suggest) and, hey presto, a single-file line of opponents. The person at the opposite corner, in my experience anyway, almost always advances up to the line. Why? Well, quite frankly he or she can't do anything in the far corner, and the opponents don't necessarily know which way you are going to go.
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