Min Red: Schools of thought

[Poo]

There was a recently resurrected thread about red fighting that i'd like to see start up again, but specifically focusing on the min red, 48-52" abouts. I've found my second love after spear fighting in this sweet little package, and i've started seeing tons of them on the field at events. I'd like to hear some tips, schools of thought, fun shots, and discussion about min red fighting.

[varadin]

I fight red-sword very rarely anymore. But my favorite shot is something I call the side spliter. I do it with a glaive as well but its faster with min red as its lighter/shorter.

Works best right hand up vrs a righty sworded shield guy. Swing for the shield, if you get it awesome bonus. If he pulls the shield in carry the shot passed it. Step in either bouncing the sword off the ground or just stopping and pulling back up. Imaging shoveling snow. Right under their weapon into the lower gut. Hits like a ton of bricks and normally they will be crossing for your right arm so they are open. You should land it before he hits you.

Other then that I just enjoy getting in on people. Most of the guys who fight red round here/dag events are little spinny ballerinas most of the time. Sure they move in ways I can't but when a shield man rushes me and i block his shot and throw him to the ground with a shoulder check I teach them a different form of red sword fighting.

[Forkbeard]

I love fighting with my 4' red sword more than anything. Except maybe spear.
Mine is hardly "minimum" anything, though. It is built on a 1/2" square core, it's 4" wide and weighs 36 oz.
It rocks like nothing else. It delivers sheild breaking hits easy but is balanced enough to use one handed(mostly). It also has a stab tip. I broke a hollow fiberglass blue sword with it at Yestare. That was hilarious. Kid swung at my guts and a chopped his sword in two with a block. It does not flex.
I have an 18" handle on it, which I recomend.
Mostly, in fighting with it, I keep it vertical and very close to my body. I try to block high shots by keeping the sword vertical and moving it back and forth. I try to avoid low shots with what little footwork I can muster. Keeping the sword close to my body allows for fast bloking and very fast high power strikes.
I guess I should say, I'm left handed. When I fight red I put my left hand on top(most of the time) and my Left foot forward. I wear a buckler on my right arm.
I can usually hit a shield on the right side top corner, snap back up and block, hit the left side top conrer(shield is now broken, barring any nonsense), snap back up to block again and then swing down into a flat snapish type move on the poor **** kidney. This works wonders but is kind of mean. After hitting so many people in a row in the kidney, you start feeling guilty and trying new ****. I always come back to it though. It' a sweet combo.
FB

[Arrakis]

I just threaten high shield-side and then bust folks' forearms when they try to throw a shot on their sword-side, mostly.

Fork, my min-red sounds like yours, only it weighs about 4 oz less and has about 6" less handle. Hmm...

[Geshtal]

One of the shots i use with a min red is a spin. I only use it then im being chased down a.k.a I'm back peddling, what i do is while back peddling if the guy is catching up i plant my left leg and push of with my right and drop the sword low in my right hand. The spin usually legs them or it throws them off and stops them from chasing you. This gives me enough time to set up shoulder check them and get a red hit on their shield or run to some friends for some help (if i feel like a little * that day)

[calebmonkey]

i thought a red sword needed a 36 inch blade,
and if your 4 foot red sword(48 inches) has 18 inches of handle
that leves a 30 inch blade
did i miss a rule change?

[Magpie Saegar]

Correct, you did.

1.4.2. Class 2 - All Class 2 Weapons must conform to the following:
1.4.2.1. The minimum length is forty-eight (48) inches.
1.4.2.2. The minimum weight is twenty-four (24) ounces.
1.4.2.3. The maximum handle length for Class 2 Weapons is eighteen (18) inches or one-third (1/3) of the overall length, whichever is greater. This cannot exceed one-half (1/2) of the overall length.

It no longer matters that at least 36 inches be blade. (For one thing, this allows for red axes and maces).

[Derian]

Actually, Magpie, it used to be that only swords required a 36" blade to be red. All other weapons only need reach 36" overall to be red. This produced many turbo-clubs that were also classified as red. The length change and later weight minimums fixed that.

More on-topic, I like this thread. I'm putting the finishing touches on a 54" red. It's a bit longer than min-red, but I found my 48" just too short. I think 52-56" is probably about perfect for a quick red for most people.

I also agree with Fork - 18" handle is pretty much necessary. You can always choke down.

[Ahki]

I enjoy a long handle on my minimum reds. I make them so the handle is 18 inches then at a bit of half padding, that is the same thickness of of the handle, to give me even more room for my hands. My mentality with the min red sword is to chop limbs and go through armor at long range. The sword I use is so light it can't deliver shield breaking shots unless I'm going home run bat style. I like to let it slip to one hand for extra reach and usually fight on the run with it. Also I usually have a back shield on. Example, Darvax and I took the Grinnell field day pairs tournament both fighting like this. Those are half inch fiberglass with Edhellen fries and extra two pieces of 1/2" fiberglass place in the handles to make them larger and act as a counter balance. You can see that mine (the grey one) has the extra half padding other wise they are identical.

[Arrakis]

Is that a min red? Looks like, what, 5'? Doesn't it hit like a brick with just an Edhellen fry on it?

[Poo]

I think there's a lot of stuff in the picture thats making it look longer... if you remember that the handle is 18", its not too much longer.

[Big King Jimmy]

Ahki and Darvax are both really short.

[Derian]

Ahki and Darvax are both really short.

Uh, not really. They're probably both at least 5'10" - 6'.

[Arrakis]

From here, the gray sword appears to be no more than 6" shorter than its wielder. Also, I say again, one of the skinny Edhellen fries makes horrible redsword padding. Put a layer of blue over it, at least. But then, if that's 1/2" round fiberglass for teh core, if may flex enough not to hit like a ton of bricks.

[Ahki]

Those are about 4'6", it looks kinda long because I'm kinda crouching in that photo, I'm 5'11". Those were prototypes we made and they were able to work and not hit to hard because at that length the core flexes enough to absorb alot of the impact but not enough to fail for flex. They worked well for about 2 months then the foam broke down to the point where they hit too hard, at that point I cut a 1'6" off of mine and converted it to a blue sword which worked great. Gen 2 of those is gonna have a layer of REI camp pad on the outer layer so that they last longer and hit a bit nicer.

[Druss RVNS]

Min. red is probably one of the most exciting styles for me (and one I'd really like to improve), so, I've got some questions pertaining to anyone that uses one with a considerable amount of skill. How does your game change when fighting on a team with a short red as compared to when you fight alone with it? Describe an imaginary fight of each type, if you would. Something simple to begin with, small teams or your min red versus one well balanced sword and boarder.
What's more important with a red; intimidation or precise shots? Do you fight in a completely offensive manner (i.e. always moving forward) or a more defensive manner (backpedal and pop shots)? How do you fight another red sword? How do you fight poles?

I understand most of this will be individual opinion, but, you guys usually crank out things that keep my wheels turning. Thanks for any thoughts.

[Poo]

Team
When i'm fighting min red with a team, i think of myself as a flanker. You keep the few that like to run the edges in line, because you just don't have the range to be effective in a line. I stay to the edges, look for holes to run through, leg and leave shieldmen, kill when i can. I think of min red fighting in a group and being a tactical strike force **** with the enemy, whereas with my spear i'm The Inglorious Basterds; killing everything i can find. I try to work in large battle situations with a lot of directed aggression, but only in short bursts.
Alone
Alone in sparring or dueling or tourneys, i try to work with less aggression and more technique. I snipe arms and legs with quick blue strikes, and if need be, i'll haul off and red them to death.
Offensive/Defensive
I don't like running away, so i'm definitely an offensive fighter when it comes to reds. But that offense doesn't always mean constant swinging. Bursts of aggression is what i like.
Vs. Red
min red vs min red is my favorite. I definitely use the full gamut of shots in my *, lots of blue arm sniping, lots of quick snap cuts. A lot of the talhoffer stuff works pretty well. With a stabby, everything becomes better. Vs longer reds i just try to arm them, because they generally become useless without a sidearm.
Vs. Pole
Vs poles i act like a shieldman, run up on them. But, since i have a smaller weapon that can be used one handed, i generally try to grab the pole. If they're like Killian type good, I try to arm them.

[GvK]

I would never make a sword without a thrusting tip, especially red weapons. The 2-handed thrust can jack up a person, and allows for the *threat* of a thrust, which makes transitions from guards/strikes that much easier and effective.

[Azgarehta]

A stabbing tip on a red makes it essentially a mini-glave. I don't see why anyone wouldn't want to put in the minimal time and effort to add one for the world of tactical options it affords you.

[Geshtal]

In regards to blocking I hardly ever use the blade of the weapon I focus on blocking most shots with the handle between my two hands. The only time I use the blade is if the person I"m fighting is going for a low leg shot. I find that blocking with the handle opens up more pop shots allowing me to snipe arms more often then naught. I realize I wouldn't have any hands left if i were to do this in real life but it is a game and I Love "hand on weapon"

[GvK]

In regards to blocking I hardly ever use the blade of the weapon I focus on blocking most shots with the handle between my two hands. The only time I use the blade is if the person I"m fighting is going for a low leg shot. I find that blocking with the handle opens up more pop shots allowing me to snipe arms more often then naught. I realize I wouldn't have any hands left if i were to do this in real life but it is a game and I Love "hand on weapon"

I hope you've invested in QUALITY hand protection...

[Arrakis]

Geshtal, try counterstriking more.

[Poo]

In regards to blocking I hardly ever use the blade of the weapon I focus on blocking most shots with the handle between my two hands. The only time I use the blade is if the person I"m fighting is going for a low leg shot. I find that blocking with the handle opens up more pop shots allowing me to snipe arms more often then naught. I realize I wouldn't have any hands left if i were to do this in real life but it is a game and I Love "hand on weapon"

I hope you've invested in QUALITY hand protection...

I punch block everything with my min reds. I have an mma glove on my right hand that takes all of the hits if i can help it.

[Geshtal]

I wouldn't fight red if i didn't have my MMA gloves
Punch blocking ftw

And as for counterstriking I try as often as I can it is just block and chop in the same motion usually catch's my opponent unawares. But where I'm in Ebonhold and the only none newbish regular people are Ruben, Leaf, Darwraith (I hope I spelt that right), and dare I say (god forgive me) Kage.

So yeah as far as the realm I'm in it has worked for me very well.

[Nikola the Bear-hat]

I punch block everything with my min reds. I have an mma glove on my right hand that takes all of the hits if i can help it.

It didn't really do to well against my red. Your hand looked like it might have been broken.

When I fight min red, especially against Poo, I focus on the torso section of his body (including his arms, as Poo holds his red right in front of his body). I try arm snipes, and when he blocks those, usually I transition into a stab right off of his hands into his chest. Otherwise, all the stuff in that Talhoffer video is really good, too. It's difficult though, and I'm still not very good at most of them.

[Poo]

I didn't wear gloves that one time... and what's your min red made out of? it hits like a **** truck.