my suffering offence.

[bo1]

so i have been going through a bunch of different thoughts and different defences. it seems i know more what not to do than what i should be doing.

i am attempting to dictate the fight to my opponent instead of leting them come to me and then dealing with the fight on their terms. it really is a hard point i am wondering if anyone has run into this plateu before and what they did to help get through it.

[Nibenon]

a sh*t-ton of footwork works great for me

[Poo]

that makes zero sense.

[Spork]

He uses his footwork to create a more offensive fighting style. Footwork in the common sense of the word is moving to avoid getting hit. I think Nibenon is trying to say he uses his footwork to get in a better offensive position. Like the style that Tiji, Xiao, and Postal use.

I'm not near the skill level you are at Bo, so I'm sure you've already tried fighting florentine or single blue. Ever thought of trying out a completely different style when it comes to the whole flow/technical school of thoughts?

[GvK]

Good seeing ou at GenCon Bo.

Back when I was in peak fighting form--especially for sword and shield--I *tended* to be a more reactionary fighter. In that, I'd love to use footwork and/or a feint or two to get the opponent to commit to a shot or body movement that I could exploit with a counter-strike. Of course, I used a strapped heater shield so I could "afford" to be more passive and wait on the situation, going defensive if I did not want to press at that moment.

In this era of punch shields, it generally pays to be more aggressive and make and immediately exploit those opportunities. But there are no hard-and-fast rules. there will be fighters that you will do better againt (in general) by being aggressive, more reactionary, and/or more physical (e.g., shield punches).

[Nibenon]

I'd love to use footwork and/or a feint or two to get the opponent to commit to a shot or body movement that I could exploit with a counter-strike.

in more words, what i was saying

[Slagar]

To be honest, Bo, I think that "controlling the fight", while the right mindset to have, produces a lot of the wrong behaviors.

Controlling the fight does not mean flying at your oppenent, throwing a ton of shots for targets that aren't open, and just generally pushing forwards. I see it a lot, where fighters who have outgrown being passive and timid switch over to over-agressive, sloppy offense, simply because someone like Kenny or Bhakdar told them that it's important to "control the fight". Control is about a lot more than just being close range, and throwing all your shots really fast.

What controlling the fight means, and what (in my sparring with you, at least) you have yet to really start doing, is forcing your oppenent to do what you want him to do. For example, bait a shot that produces an obvious response, with an obvious and effective counter. Or step in and body-fake to one side, leaving yourself a passing step in the other direction. There's a thousand and one ways to make your opponent jump when you say "frog", but it's important to make sure he's actually jumping before you really get agressive. Pushing people around isn't instantaneous, except in a very few cases. When people fight you, they need to feel like they've only got one option at any given time, and it's the one you want them to take.

A good drill to force yourself to do this:
Find a sparring partner who's about a half-step behind you skill-wise (you should be able to beat them, but not a rank newb either, someone who'll punish you for mistakes if you make them)

Spar with them, first blood or full death, either way.

While sparring:
You lose a point if you throw a shot for an opening that isn't there (no machine gunning shots into his guard to push a shot through).
You lose a point if you throw a shot for an opening that you didn't make (for example, if he's just standing there with his guard too high, or his shield too low, you're not allowed to hit it, force a new opening and hit there)
You lose a point if you throw the same fake/shot combo twice in a row.
You gain a point every time you land a strike properly

This drill (if you can even call it that, really. Half the time my opponent has no idea I'm doing a drill) will help you learn to really control fights, to force openings and never throw wasted shots. I think that this mindset, of "I'm making my opening, and then hitting it", will help you tighten your offense up a lot. Just my .02, so take it for what it's worth.

[bo1]

that is hilarrious, i just spent all practice doing just that very same drill. that is what is so frustraiting, i hated practice. it was a painful horrible experiance, but i guess learn isnt always going to be fun. that is the point of dictating the fight, the opponent does what you wish them to, as though you are leading them to their demise.

and yes my opponents didnt know what i was doing other than they thought i was swinging alot less.

ftr, i never shot gun shots. i am too slow for that to work. i have to pick away at people and have a thought process.

[Satanaka]

ever so often- wink at a fighter or make a Kissy face- they will attack and you become a better fighter...

[Nibenon]

or you could be like satanaka and just do it for the fun of it...j/k

[Big King Jimmy]

ever so often- wink at a fighter or make a Kissy face- they will attack and you become a better fighter...

I'll be your huckleberry.

I <3 Doc Holiday.

[Brennon EH]

so i have been going through a bunch of different thoughts and different defences. it seems i know more what not to do than what i should be doing.

i am attempting to dictate the fight to my opponent instead of leting them come to me and then dealing with the fight on their terms. it really is a hard point i am wondering if anyone has run into this plateu before and what they did to help get through it.

Slagar had some pretty accurate advice, which I'll reiterate: You can control the fight both offensively and defensively. You just want to be ACTIVE rather than PASSIVE about what you are doing.

My standard setup is to bait for the high cross and then beat on them while they are busy hitting my block. It gives them the illusion of initiative while in actuality they are simply doing what I wanted without realizing it.

I recommend working on tightening up your defense so you don't have any natural open shots. No exposed same-side shoulder, * hanging out, too-high guard on your sword side, not planted on your front leg, etc. Once you've got it to the point where people are not comfortable opening on you due to lack of options you can move on to phase two: Give them a single, obvious option to swing for. Have a plan based around the concept that they will swing for your exposed area and when they do it, execute it.

[Aelin Greenbough]

Slightly off topic, but still fitting to the forums... You were at GenCon, Bo? Did you perhaps fight a 6-foot-some gangly beginner on the last day? If that was you, I gotta thank you.

Those fights have been replaying in my head ever since, and have been a big source of my drive to improve. Sure, I was tired, sore, and sporting a mangled hand - but really, it would have turned out the same no matter what condition I was in. We started a realm in Ottawa when we returned, and until recently were all rookies, and I sat unfortunately high on the food chain. My major impetus to pick up my shieldwork, footwork, etc- came not from my environment (which rewarded my bad habits), but from thinking "how would that little guy school me right now?"

Anyway, if I can make it out to Oktoberfest, I'm going to find you (and all the other people who were manning the Belegarth demos) .... and get thrashed again.

[Slagar]

NaCl, you win noob of the year. I can't express you how awesome it is to find a newb realm leader who's aware of the size of his pond, and willing and eager to work beyond it.

Spread your message, there's always a bigger fish. And yeah, hopefully I'll bump into you at Okfest.

[bo1]

i was at gencon, i was using a round with checks and a dude holding the world on it, grey field with blue.

i dont sadly remember you outright, but i fought 1000 people so please dont take it as a slight on you. yep you gotta got out and fight more people, honeslty that is the best way to improve is to go to events and fight anyone on the side lines. learn asn ask questions. now when you ask, ask how long they have been fighting, where they are on the food chain. i use percentages as far as skill. so a 1% is like the first time that person has been to an event, they have only been to a couple of practices. maybe just learning. they wont have much good to say.

25%, knows the rules, fighting for a bit, but lose to most everyone.
50% your average field fighter. good, has some shots, wraps and hacks. usually the tools box is pretty empty though, expect to see the same few shots.
75% a real good fighter, all the tools are present. good fakes, good movent, this is the level that most people are able to achieve with alot of practuice and hard work.
90% the really gifted fighters, they have physical skills, probibly cross train. amazing timing and foot work, great fients and body jukes.
100% there are maybe 8 guys i know that are 100% fighters. they are just stupid to fight. i fought 3 i think maybe 5 at L.O.W. i have rarely felt so useless. some are in amtgaurd, some out west some in the east.

listen to the 75% and up fighters, ignore the rest unless it really sounds right in your head. remember not all those that give advice are qualified, including me.

[Azgarehta]

I was just talking this over with some of my local realm. I used a 1-10 scale, 1 being 'put down your weapon and pick another one up' and 10 being 'you're one of the best in the game' They gave me a 6, which isn't bad, its about average. I'd put myself in the 50% category of your list, so there's room for improvement.

Is there a way you can give a list of things to improve upon to go from one level to another? You did mention fakes and footwork, is the rest just accuracy and skill with your weapon?

[Soo Ma Tai]

I am not sue where I would be in the % scale, but I would suggest this. Firstly work on your defense, to the point where unless you put yourself out of position, you are nearly impossible to hit. This can come from many factors including but not limited to footwork, stance, shield work and sword skills. Then work on your shot accuracy and placement. Finally start putting together sets of moves that allow you to control your opponent by letting them think they have a shot, when really you are just waiting for them to throw it so you can counter.

There's a lot more to what I do and how I fight, but that is the basics of it. Watch other people who are better than you. Try to pick up on what they do and practice the things you think will work for you.

[Dane]

Bo, against whom are you having difficulty dictating the fight? As early as Wolfpack Opener this year, I saw you pretty much leading the dance with most of the people with whom you sparred. If you're not dictating, it's because you're psyching yourself out (either over-thinking or not taking the fight seriously enough) or you're fighting people who are much better than you.

You're thinking about what to do in certain situations, and that's fine when you're trying to train good habits. However, when you're trying to dictate a fight, you've got to stop thinking and start doing. I know that sounds awfully inflated, but the big block there is confidence in the game plan you're trying to execute.

[Hurin]

What Dane said.

[Jorel]

Not to detract from the main thread topic but Dane hit on something that I feel applies to me, but in the reverse. I find that when fighting I just turn off all cohesive thought and fight according to almost 100% instinct. This tends to get me into trouble as the fight grows longer because my instinct starts to make more mistakes. How do you, if applicable, begin to think more about the moves you are committing to rather than let the flow of fighting take over all the way. Kinda trying to find a way to diversify myself, sorry for jacking the thread...

[Dane]

Train good habits. They become instinct.

[Slagar]

My favorite thing to do about this is post-game. When you're sparring to improve, after each loss literally (not metaphorically, literally, out loud if you have to) stop and ask, why did I lose that round? What mistakes did I make, what did they capitalize on, why did I lose? Whatever mistake they took advantage of, fix it. Whether your stance was wrong, you fell for a feint, whatever. Never make the same mistake multiple times in a row.

This may seem overly analytical, but eventually it kinda pares itself into this really streamlined checklist of your common shortcomings, that you run before you start a fight. As you go through them, you close them off. Eventually, they're never there anymore, and people looking at you are fighting a brick wall (that's the goal, at any rate).

This is basically the first step towards becoming one of those "fancy analytical types". Thinking about what you do wrong, asking yourself why you got your * kicked, is the only way to really, systematically, fix your flaws. Otherwise you're just trusting to luck, basically. I hate that.

[Sicarian]

My favorite thing to do about this is post-game. When you're sparring to improve, after each loss literally (not metaphorically, literally, out loud if you have to) stop and ask, why did I lose that round? What mistakes did I make, what did they capitalize on, why did I lose? .

This is how I started. I looked at every fight lost as a chance to learn and grow. No matter how good you get, you can always get better. I've been in this for 4 years now and realize I still have worlds to learn, but being optimistic about the future helps to qwell the frustrated mind now and make you a better fighter. Learn to impose your will. The end result is on you.

[Remdawg Killionaire]

Hey, just a thought; I plateaued awhile ago, for the same reasons. i changed it up by actually changing my thinking.
Instead of waiting for them to attack, then blocking with my shield, then attacking, blocking with my shield
I attacked them with my shield first, then sword.
so instead of the mantra of sword, shield sword shield sword shield
it's now shield, sword shield sword shield sword.
It upped my game alot, honestly, but I don't personally know what level you're at, or how helpful this will actually be. I dunno. Give it a try, maybe it'll help you out as well.

[Big King Jimmy]

Bo would never admit it, but he works hard at being a great fighter. His question is really aimed at the top 20-50 fighters in the sport.

[Satanaka]

That was one of the best parts of that movie. It did provoke an action.

ever so often- wink at a fighter or make a Kissy face- they will attack and you become a better fighter...

I'll be your huckleberry.

I <3 Doc Holiday.

[Arrakis]

Hey, just a thought; I plateaued awhile ago, for the same reasons. i changed it up by actually changing my thinking.
Instead of waiting for them to attack, then blocking with my shield, then attacking, blocking with my shield
I attacked them with my shield first, then sword.
so instead of the mantra of sword, shield sword shield sword shield
it's now shield, sword shield sword shield sword.
It upped my game alot, honestly, but I don't personally know what level you're at, or how helpful this will actually be. I dunno. Give it a try, maybe it'll help you out as well.

If you'd like to move beyond your current plateau: Try blocking with your sword more often.

[Juicer]

Hey, just a thought; I plateaued awhile ago, for the same reasons. i changed it up by actually changing my thinking.
Instead of waiting for them to attack, then blocking with my shield, then attacking, blocking with my shield
I attacked them with my shield first, then sword.
so instead of the mantra of sword, shield sword shield sword shield
it's now shield, sword shield sword shield sword.
It upped my game alot, honestly, but I don't personally know what level you're at, or how helpful this will actually be. I dunno. Give it a try, maybe it'll help you out as well.

If you'd like to move beyond your current plateau: Try blocking with your sword more often.

And then if you want to move beyond THAT plateau: Try swinging with your sword more often.

[Remdawg Killionaire]

?
I was not clear, I suppose. I block with my sword, and use my shield in an aggressive way, attacking my opponent in ways they might not be used to, or see coming. I appreciate it tho? I'm sure Bo appreciates it too? I'm actually quite proud at how far I'm coming in my fighting, thanks for the suggestion tho, Juicebox, your pithy wit never fails to amuse me.

Bo, is their a chance this just might be a mental block? It sounds like it might be... Just a thought. I can't fight at a hundred percent if I don't meditate beforehand, and when I'm chillin' between fights a lot of my time is spent doing mental exercises, reading philosophy, playing chess, sudoku that kinda thing. Just a thought mind you!