What makes a great fighter?

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What makes a great fighter?

Postby Ramius » Tue Sep 22, 2009 11:02 pm

In Bo's topic on dictating a fight, Azgarehta asked

"Is there a way you can give a list of things to improve upon to go from one level to another? You did mention fakes and footwork, is the rest just accuracy and skill with your weapon?"

Which, combined with some of the other poster's thoughts on scoring fighters, got me thinking (and this is the question of the thread:

IN YOUR OPINION, what are the qualifications of a GREAT fighter?

In my thoughts, I typically group serious fighters (poor fighters simply don't garner a ranking to me as most of them aren't seriously seeking to better themselves) into three distinct rankings. These ranking from a quote I once heard (probably attributed to Bruce Lee or somesuch) that said something along the lines of this:

"At first there is the student. Then there is the art. Then, there is neither the student or the art."

The way I sum this up is that at first we are learning the art of fighting (the LEARNERS), then we move on to practicing and using the art of fighting(the USERS). After that, we realize that we aren't dictated by the art or ourselves (the ABUSERS) and this is where greatness is achieved, where we find the true development of "style."

So to me, great fighters aren't even fighting anymore; they are simply doing. Due to practice, muscle memory, reaction speed, and a multitude of other skills, their movements seem effortless and awesome in the same moment. A large number of people don't even get to see people like this, much less get to interact with them or even to understand what level they are at.

So there's my opinion on what makes a GREAT fighter; please chime in with your opinions! Feel free to dissect opinions, but please keep it civil as this is a completely OPINION oriented question and has no right or wrong.

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Re: What makes a great fighter?

Postby Physic » Wed Sep 23, 2009 8:47 am

Hard Work
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Re: What makes a great fighter?

Postby Slagar » Wed Sep 23, 2009 9:50 am

An open mind. There are more wonders in heaven and earth...

If you don't watch for it, when that one opportunity to improve your game will stroll right by unheeded. Always be willing to learn, because there's always something new.
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Re: What makes a great fighter?

Postby Brennon EH » Wed Sep 23, 2009 10:02 am

A distinct disdain for mysticism and platitudes.
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Re: What makes a great fighter?

Postby Juicer » Wed Sep 23, 2009 10:07 am

Relaxed mind and body. The fighter who is at home on the field and is ONLY on the field, not somewhere else in his head. Open to anything, NEVER believing himself to be the best. The minute a fighter thinks he has nothing to improve on is the minute he stops being great.
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Re: What makes a great fighter?

Postby Slagar » Wed Sep 23, 2009 12:20 pm

Post removed due to poor internet skills on my part. Carry on.
Last edited by Slagar on Wed Sep 23, 2009 2:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What makes a great fighter?

Postby Brennon EH » Wed Sep 23, 2009 12:35 pm

Slagar wrote:
Brennon EH wrote:A distinct disdain for mysticism and platitudes.


I maintain a distinct disdain for condescension and poorly veiled insults, friend.


You're reading something into my post that isn't there. You're also taking it as though it is directed at you, which it isn't.

It was written at face value, take it at face value.
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Re: What makes a great fighter?

Postby Michael » Wed Sep 23, 2009 1:52 pm

Physic already covered my view very succinctly but I am going to elaborate because I like to write.

Among all the kinds of hard work, practice is king. If you think you want to be great and arent practicing 4+ times a week then you only want to be darn good. Invariably the best figthers I know went through years where they were playing that often.

Outside actually swinging foam, there are many other forms of excercise and condiditoning that are a big help but none that directly improve fighting more than fighting.

The great thing about practice is that whether you are extremely analytical with a plan for every shot or very seat of your pants just doing things that work, practice will build that into an instinct when nothing else will.

I dont reject the idea of mysticism as completely as Brennon. I think that mental state is important to makeing the most of your practice time and for some people mystic platitudes help create the right mental state. However, none of us will be in the ideal mind frame at every practice, thats why total number of practices is so important.

(PS - I know full freaking well that this advice means that, by my own standards, I dont want to be great at the current time. I kick myself for it but its true.)
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Re: What makes a great fighter?

Postby Slagar » Wed Sep 23, 2009 2:19 pm

I'm just gonna go nix my last post now. My mistake.
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Re: What makes a great fighter?

Postby Arrakis » Wed Sep 23, 2009 4:13 pm

Michael wrote:(PS - I know full freaking well that this advice means that, by my own standards, I dont want to be great at the current time. I kick myself for it but its true.)



Life gets in the way of greatness. One of these days...
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Re: What makes a great fighter?

Postby Michael » Thu Sep 24, 2009 9:56 am

No doupt and the older I get the more life gets in the way becasue the more practice it takes to stay on top.
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Re: What makes a great fighter?

Postby Eisenwolf » Thu Sep 24, 2009 12:56 pm

Refusal to settle for anything less than being your best. Not in being better than everyone else, but in being better than yoru previous self. This is true glory. You can learn more from a hard fought loss than from an easily gained win. And dedication. Dedication to your art, and dedication to the weapons you've made and the way you've learned to fight with them. This dedication ties in with the refusal to settle for less than your best as it seperates those who reach idly from those who can grab the stars and reshape their horizons. A great fighter reaches out and takes what is theirs, victories and losses alike, and uses that for their improvement. All the while retaining a healthily hunmble attitude.
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Re: What makes a great fighter?

Postby Coriant » Fri Sep 25, 2009 10:34 am

A great fighter can adapt well. they aren't limited to a particular style that is the only one they can do well with. If the weapons are what makes them good then they aren't a GREAT fighter in my estimation. Maybe a whole lot better than me, but not GREAT. They can also adapt well to the fighting styles of others.

I kind of agree with Ramius here, great fighters just do, without much in the way of detailed thought at the time. They may have a lot of thought and planning between fights but on the field it's all smooth action.

I don't think I can subdivide fighters into groups though, because I've seen fighters who would normally be in the learning group do this for a whole night, like something was just clicked in their state of mind, and then the next time be back to normal. Less often, I've seen someone I consider great have a bad day.

Summary: Great fighters adapt well in any situation and move smoothly. Watching sometimes it seems like they've always had the weapon in their hand. Anyone who gets there is great, even if only for a while till they forget how it felt.

I agree that practice and a willingness to learn are how you get there, but I don't think that's how you know a great fighter when you see one.
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Re: What makes a great fighter?

Postby Titan G » Thu Oct 01, 2009 1:48 pm

i think truly great fighters are a mix of certain things. you have to realise that all of you aren't going to be truly great fighters because of this

skill- anyone can learn this, the right shots at the right time etc etc. go watch peter or winfang and you immediately skill up.

atheletism- this is what keeps alot of the nerds that want to be good from ever truly reaching **** lawnmower man status. sometimes your just going to be to slow or to weak to beat the guy in front of you. sorry nerds

field awareness- you must always be aware of whats going on, most events i'd say 70% of my deaths are from either projectile weapons i don't see or someone back stabbing me.

luck- rarely oh so rarely you are saved by luck, some people are luckier than others. never ever depend on this.


you can get all zen if you want to and practice certainly helps with the skill portion but if you dont have a good amount of those three things your not going to be good.

another distinction that should be made. there are two things that i think people are getting confused

good fighters and good killers

i myself am NOT a good fighter. i require a shield and a rope flail or 12 oz. sword to be good. i an however and Excellent killer. i get on average face to face 5-7 kills a battle and on a good day 10-11 and at events i can go even higher on average. i'm good with my combination and i know it

a good fighter is someone who can pick up any weapon polearm, red, punch shield or strap. flail or sowrd anything they want to fight with and do well with that. now by doingw well i mean that they can get a good number of kills either equal to mine or above my average. i think good fighters are far far rarer than good killers.
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Re: What makes a great fighter?

Postby Michael » Thu Oct 01, 2009 2:27 pm

Titan G wrote:atheletism- this is what keeps alot of the nerds that want to be good from ever truly reaching **** lawnmower man status. sometimes your just going to be to slow or to weak to beat the guy in front of you. sorry nerds


I sort of disagree although the nerds probabably wont like my answer any better than Titan's. The amount of atheleticism required to excell in our game isnt so high that any normal nerd cant get there with enough passion. Of course, that means getting up from the computer and getting in shape. Speed and strength both have genetic components but the greater component of both of them is based on fitness and practice.

Maybe if foam fighting paid millions like some sports, the competition would be so high that everyone was very fit and practicing daily so the most genetically gifted would have a significant advantage. That isnt the case.

So nerds, you still have a chance. Do it now before you get too old. :)
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Re: What makes a great fighter?

Postby Titan G » Thu Oct 01, 2009 5:52 pm

i agree michael , but at an average event there are maybe 5-10% naturally toned, in shape atheletes. slagar, couple of the kids from hellhammer, some guys in the ebf etc etc. not alot of those guys. then there are another 10-15 who are like me, excellent atheletes who fell out of shape. former marines, i was an all state football player things like that.

then you get to the rest of them. the nerds who are so goofy that they couldn't swing their **** right if they watched a thousand videos. these people have no chance of beating me. ever. not going to happen. i use a flail not because it gives advantage but because i don't want to be to tired from killing these people by the dozen by the time i get to someone worth fighting.

it's not that competion is so high, its that the field we generally pull from is so low because most people who are atheletic think the same thing i thought when i first started watching fighting before i actually fought " this **** is so gay"
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Re: What makes a great fighter?

Postby Satanaka » Fri Oct 02, 2009 3:48 pm

Wild Turkey 101 and night fighting an invisible Army by yourself with a Red Weapon...

That... is greatness.... via a Khan
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Re: What makes a great fighter?

Postby p_quick » Sun Oct 04, 2009 10:45 pm

hard work and dedication. I agree with physic.
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Re: What makes a great fighter?

Postby Kurgan » Mon Oct 05, 2009 12:02 am

Sure, that and a pair of *...
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Re: What makes a great fighter?

Postby kree » Mon Oct 05, 2009 12:58 am

natural talent, aggressiveness, hard work, and dedication
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Re: What makes a great fighter?

Postby Winfang » Mon Oct 05, 2009 5:17 pm

Fiber...
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Re: What makes a great fighter?

Postby Titan G » Tue Oct 06, 2009 9:03 am

metamucil and salads make you a man slayer.
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Re: What makes a great fighter?

Postby Satanaka » Tue Oct 06, 2009 11:25 am

HA!!
:devil:


Titan G wrote:metamucil and salads make you a man slayer.
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Re: What makes a great fighter?

Postby MeleeMoses » Tue Oct 06, 2009 4:45 pm

you gotta lift weights if youre gonna be a good fighter

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Re: What makes a great fighter?

Postby Juicer » Tue Oct 06, 2009 11:05 pm

Yeah! You gotta get RIPPED!
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Re: What makes a great fighter?

Postby Slagar » Wed Oct 07, 2009 8:18 am

Dude, a little bit of athleticism goes a long way. I started hitting the gym after I picked up the game (the before and after pics are almost retarded). It really helps you swing a sword when you can, you know, swing a *' sword.

Cardio, too. If you can't run at least a mile, you're in for some hurt.
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Re: What makes a great fighter?

Postby Soo Ma Tai » Wed Oct 07, 2009 8:43 am

MeleeMoses wrote:amiright!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!...*silence*

I am with Juicer and Moses on this one, lifting weights is the way to get ripped, and that always leads to good swordfighting. :goblin:
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Re: What makes a great fighter?

Postby Azgarehta » Wed Oct 07, 2009 11:24 am

I found this banner ad on our forums this morning:

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NO ROIDS!

I'd rather be a skinny wimp than take bodybuilding advice from a guy that looks like Carrot Top.
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Re: What makes a great fighter?

Postby Soo Ma Tai » Wed Oct 07, 2009 1:57 pm

LOLOL, those pics are of Carrot Top.
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Re: What makes a great fighter?

Postby Slagar » Wed Oct 07, 2009 2:23 pm

Soo Ma Tai wrote:LOLOL, those pics are of Carrot Top.


He must have taken up Belegarth.
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