From Bel to the SCA

[Forkbeard]

Today I'm going to my first offical SCA practice as a fighter. I'm starting this thread to keep a record of my experiences in going from an old Bel fighter to a new SCA fughter. We'll see how it goes.
I just finnished all my ****. My god this takes a **** ton of equipment! SCA people are always saying it doesn't, but that's crap. I have made:
Helmet
Lamalar torso
Bazubands
Gorget
Lag harnessw steel knee's
and
Gauntlets(**** making gaunlets)
I had to buy various padding, padded clothes and a cup.
The only Bel equipment I'm using is knee and elbow pads and boots. I even got compresion shorts so my drawers are different.
But it's all very worth it. In this new armor I am a **** jugernaut. I'v had it kicking around for a while but actually putting it together to wear took more work than I thoguht. all these hard part really have to work well together.
My bel armor is very comprhensive and I think it would do well in SCA combat, but attempt at a more period kit led me to make all new ****. It really is cool how all this stuff conspires to keep me all covered up.
I'll let you guys know how it goes. I need to stretch.
FB

[Judas]

Look forward to reading your conclusions. The first several months of fighting in a metal helmet made me realize how week I actually was.

[Arrakis]

That **** is TIRING. I felt like a weak little noodle-arm trying to swing stick the first time I picked up the rattan from inside a suit of (hideously ill-fitting loaner) SCA armor.

Need pics of your kit. I must be inspired more to finish mine.

[Slagar]

I just started SCA in October. I'll be reading this with interest. It'll be cool to see how your experience compares to mine.

How's your local figher pratice look? Lots of white leather and ducal coronets? Or mostly scrubs? The level of skill present will affect your initial experiences pretty strongly (based on my experience, at any rate). An upper-end Bel fighter can pick up rattan and beat on SCA chumps without much adjustment. It's the good ones who'll show you what's up.

[Judas]

Lots of white leather and ducal coronets? Or mostly scrubs?

There doesn’t have to be a lot of white leather to have a strong group of fighters.

[Slagar]

Very, very true (I have bruises to prove it). Doesn't hurt, though. :-p

[Judas]

Indeed. I love that inside thigh shot. I wish my wife thought bruises were sexy… she just thinks I an idiot.

[Slagar]

Dude, I'm left-handed. The outside of my sword-side thigh looks like a *' rainbown if I get even a little lazy. Gotta love it.

[Dane]

Pfft. I bruise up that spot with kitespar. Thank your god we don't spar SCA.

[Slagar]

I bruise up that spot with kitespar.

You don't do it through heavy armor. I wear floating legs, 1/4inch thick polyethylene padded with blue foam. I literally can't feel strikes from Bel weapons through that.

Also, you bruised the hell out of that spot like a year ago. Since then you've talked a lot. Where the hell you been, man? I'm getting all lazy and ****.

[Dane]

In secret training for the inevitable ultimate showdown: Golden Boy v. Lefty Menace I, 2010. Or not getting days off from work during practice days. One of the two.

[Satanaka]

Yeah- Back in the 1980's I was told I was to short for SCA- did it for 2 years- - Yeah- lots of bruises... Most of the people were 6' or over and 200+ pounds...

good luck to both of you. Keep the Tiger Balm ready.

[varadin]

Yeah- Back in the 1980's I was told I was to short for SCA

If Donal can pull it off anyone can.

Id like to see a couple shots of your kit as well. I started up a year ago with SCA and love it. It is far more tireing then I expected, but I am a fat kid. Also the terrible loaner shield did nothing to help.

[Forkbeard]

It went very well.
Theres only about 6 heavy fighters who showed up. 2 were and old man( really he's like 50) and a chick about 5' tall. I left them alone. I don't want to hurt no body.
I only got to fight about 12 fights with 3 different people due to chinstrap problems.
Also, my helmet is about an inch to short at the chin. So's I fxed them when I got home.
My gorget is about 3/4" to tall so I have a bruise under my chin. Fixin that this morning.
Rattan doesn't hurt as much as I thought. I'm fighting with a couple un-armored places and I got hit in one. Not too bad. Barely even left a mark.
I seem to be ALOT faster than these guys. The weapons are heavy and that changes things for me, but only on the return. I seem to be able to fake a little to open them up and them hit them nearly anywhere I want. We fought with great weapons, bucklers and round punch shields(viking type). There are some real good fighters in the area. As soon as I get my kit dialed in, I'm going looking for them.
This really seems to be a game of gighting your own equipment. I hate wearing the helmet. The gorget is torture, I don't like stuff on my neck. The rest of the armor feels pretty good for the most part, but it's hot as hell. We're fighting inside a church so it's muggy and loud.
Once I get used to the suit, I think I'm going to have to be careful not to hurt anyone.
All in all it was alot of fun. I don't see why all those non-fighters bring all their arts and crafts out of thhe house to sit and ignore everyone and sew or whatever. Everyone says that A&S **** is cool. I agree that it's cool to have noce stuff around, but how is fun to go out and then sit by yourself and do needle piont?
Difernt strokes eh?
FB

[Judas]

Learning to fight in and fine tuning all the armour has been no picnic for me either. Seems like it takes forever to get it right.

Oh, and the old farts can sometimes be the scariest people to fight. I think Sir Lothar who attends our barony practice has put more dents in my helmet than anyone, and he’s been fight since before I was born.

[Winfang]

If you ever get a chance to fight Duke Laurelen, watch out. The guy is like five foot six or so, 150lbs soaking wet, won his both of crown tourneys before I was born, and hits like a frickin' Mack truck.

[Slagar]

Even I've heard of Laurelan. Nissan talks about him a lot on AA. I still haven't met him though. I should just start keeping a list of these names.

[Arrakis]

Get a good aventail and take the gorget off, if you've got the guts for it. I worry about my esophagus too much.


Also, get a more open helmet, like a 360-grilled chap-de-fer.

[varadin]

If you ever get a chance to fight Duke Laurelen, watch out. The guy is like five foot six or so, 150lbs soaking wet, won his both of crown tourneys before I was born, and hits like a frickin' Mack truck.

You also forgot to mention he is in his 50s?(maybe 60). Don't let the age thing fool you him and Sir Carl are quite old enough to be my grandfather and I need to hit them harder then anyone else ive fought.

[tvetree]

Get a good aventail and take the gorget off, if you've got the guts for it. I worry about my esophagus too much.


Also, get a more open helmet, like a 360-grilled chap-de-fer.

Be sure and ask locals about this one first,pretty sure here it is a no go.

[Poo]

You definitely should post a picture of your armor

[No'Vak]

You definitely should post a picture of your armor

I support this message.

[Ramius]

Get a good aventail and take the gorget off, if you've got the guts for it. I worry about my esophagus too much.


Also, get a more open helmet, like a 360-grilled chap-de-fer.

Be sure and ask locals about this one first,pretty sure here it is a no go.

Tvetree, it is legal in the Midrealm (in the SCA as a whole actually) as long as certain safety conditions are met.

Per Marshall's Handbook:

"D. Neck Armor: The neck, including the larynx, cervical vertebrae, and first thoracic vertebra must be covered by one or a combination of the following and must stay covered during typical combat situations, including turning the head, lifting the chin, etc.:
1. The helm,
2. A gorget of rigid material.
3. A mail or heavy leather camail or aventail that hangs or drapes to absorb the force of a blow. If the camail or aventail lays in contact with the larynx, cervical vertebrae, or first thoracic vertebra, that section must be padded with a minimum of .25in (6mm) of close cell foam or equivalent.
4. A collar of heavy leather lined with a minimum of .25in (6mm) of close cell foam or equivalent."

I wear a dog collar under my aventail because while I hate gorgets, I like my spine and larnyx.

You going back again next practice, Fork?

-Ramius

[Arrakis]

Yup. I like my neck, too, which is why even after I get my aventail, I'll still be wearing my gorget.

There's always later period solutions, like a bevor and sallet...

[Forkbeard]

I cut 3/4" out of the gorget and I repadded it and lined it with deerskin instead of leather. As the bruise goes away under my chin it's starting ti feel pretty good.
I think the helmet is either getting a bargrill and a clapvisor or it will be fine.
We'll see tomorrow night.
The lamellar is sexy, but I think I'm already looking to switch to something lighter. I might go with my belt from my Bel armor and some hidden plastic. Maybe I'll be switching for situsations.
There's a guy at practice that has a sneaky plastic breasrplate he wears under his mail. You can see it at all and he's drill a ton of big holes in it with a hoile saw to make it light and cool. I like this idea. Griff is getting the pattern and were making 2 on Saturday.
Yes, I'm going back.
I need finger gauntlets.
FB

[Forkbeard]

Have any of you felt any attitude from these people about your foam fighting?
I've always got a certain amout, being a foam fighter who didn't fight sca.
But I never really paid attention to them, as they were unlikely to start fighting Bel.
But now I'm definetly picking up some, but it's fading out as I hit people in surprising places with apearently surprising force.
I'm expecting some degree of static from the bigger crowd in SLC later this spring.
How do you guys fare?
FB

[varadin]

I caught a little flack whenever I talk about Foam fighting, they dont want to hear about because its not what they do. Never had anyone outright be like "ITS A LESSER GAME AND UNIMPORTANT" but I generally have always gotten the feeling that SCA is not a game/sport to most of the people in it. It is just what they do and who they are, their persona is more who they are in the working world. It a wierd vibe that Im still not used to and I can just never take anything that seriously.

[Arrakis]

I got a little bit of "LOL LARPer!" to begin with, but when I started asking questions like, "So, can I shield-edge people like I can in Belegarth?" and their eyes started to get real big, they got a better grip on what sort of sport I was talking about. Didn't hurt that even in **** loaner gear I was going 1:2 with a Squire and 1:3 or so with a Master my first day out. I was taking shots a lot lighter than they wanted me to, apparently, though. That, I think, was due to being able to feel EVERYTHING through the poorly-strapped armor I was using.

[Judas]

It’s hard for someone to give you **** when you fight them and go 1:1, and then they find out you play a foam fighting game. They always have this look like, "oh really(?)" but they never say anything because you’ve just held your own with them. If they had any sense of superiority before it’s gone now. I have no doubt that the climb to getting good at fighting in armour with heavy weapons is slower than the one in Belegarth. I spend more time working out than I do fighting just so I can keep up when in armour.

I started in the SCA under the wing of an old friend who happens to be a knight of great renown so people have always been polite. I think our local group is a nice bunch anyway so there really hasn’t been any smack talking. In fact, I’ve seen more arrogance from the Belegarth group when an Amptgard or LARP player would come to practice.

[Orso,]

Well i got a little **** from them, then i out hussled them and that was when i weighed 320 pounds, so now its even more obviose. I actually get occasional complaints about hitting "to hard" or "harder than i have to" with everything from short swords to 7.5 ft polearms. Plus i have seen the other side, EMP scares the **** out of most of them even though it is only marginaly less safe but WAY more aggressive. Just keep hitting them, and working harder than all of them at every practice and they will soon shut there mouths. I think Physic made it easier for me to make the transition through training and equipment but also changing peoples attitudes buy the point of his stick.

[Satanaka]

this has been very interesting to read. good luck to you guys and have fun.

[Slagar]

Ditto everybody else. I got a little "oh a foam fighter?" Then I put on loaner gear and went at least 2:1 with everybody there, and now I don't get any flack. Some of 'em have even started asking about it. It doesn't hurt that the fighter group there is a little lacking, stick-wise. I've gotten rocked by a couple visitors, but even then I at least held my own, managed to impress them and not embarass myself.

It's cool to hear that this is the usual reaction. I sort of thought it might be.

[Cib]

Indeed very interesting to read as I am wanting to hit up my local SCA group some time.

[Soo Ma Tai]

SCA does tend to be somewhat condescending toward foam fighters, but if you can hold your own stick to stick, that's all they really care about.

[GvK]

It's been a LOGN time, but yes, the SCA folks tend to be very condescending initially to those who fight with foam-based weapons. If you can swing some stick, that generally disappears pretty quickly. Also, it depends on where you are. In Atlantia, several big names (Dukes, Knights, Counts, etc.) started out in Dagorhir so they might know a bit more about it than in other realms.

[Orso,]

Ohh and one thing i would like to add, people in the SCA have proved to be great individuals, more mature, and generous with there time and resources and extra armor.

[Slagar]

Ohh and one thing i would like to add, people in the SCA have proved to be great individuals, more mature, and generous with there time and resources and extra armor.

My experience too. I was offered literally hundreds of dollars worth of gear to use, and hold onto until I got my own. One visiting badass actually asked me, verbatim, "what can I do to help you get better?". Great folks, without exception.

[Forkbeard]

ALright, I though that would be the norm, too.
I have to say, I'm usually kind of condesending to Larpers and Amtdudes. Especialy when they start telling me how great whatever light contact nonsense the do is. I've learned to take certain types of Amtgarders more seriously, but I have yet to meet a Larper who doesn't need an * kicking.
So I guess I get what I deserve.
As I get my kit worked out, I think Everything else will fall into place. They seem to have a great deal of respect for skill. I just have to learn to wear the helmet.
Speaking of helmets, I'm thinking of cutting open the face of mine and putting in a bargrill. Them I'm making a shole face visor to go over it for dress up.
Anybody got any pics? I'm havin a hard time finding them.
I think the shovel face was a norman thing.
FB

[Poo]

This what you're looking for? This seems like it would hide a bar grill very well.

[Forkbeard]

Yes it is. Almost.
I've seen em with the bottom edge rolled in, making it look like a beak. I like that idea as it would provide prtection to my chin when my head is back.
FB

[Judas]

I’m sure you can find someone to make you an interchangeable bargrill and visor. It would be weird to try and cover the grill and there would be the extra weight.

[Forkbeard]

I see people alot with bars under their faceplates. I was thinking of making it out of 16 guage. It'll sit directly on the bars. Normaly I would make the faceplate from 12ga, but with the bars backing it up, it wont get deformed and 16 will be less than half the weight.
Really I want it for purley style reasons. I don't want to be the * in pictures in the bargrill **** up a nice shot. I also don't want to hear grumbling in the background at event front period fools.
Don't get me wrong, I don't really give a ****. I'd like to wear my Uruk armor all the time. But I also don't want to **** up anybody elses medieval experience. If that means getting a certain look out of my helmet on some occations and wearing a proper tunic, so be it.
If you don't fit in in every camp, you can't get as much free beer.

[Arrakis]

Forky: Don't worry about it, bro. No one REALLY gives that much of a ****. No one you give a * about, anyway.

The best solution is probably the aforementioned interchangeable grill/plate. Like:

http://www.eskimo.com/~cwn/close.html

[Forkbeard]

Another practice down. I'm diggin this.
The scales I put on the helm get caught on my shoulder peices. I put steel bars on the chin on the helm instead. Since they are smooth, nothing gets caught. Sweet.
Yesterday and today I'm building a stealth plastic torso ...thing. Its 6 peices of plastic and some leather. The guy I got the pattern from wears one and you can't see it under his cloths. It's also very light.
The guy also wears plastic elbows and knees that are just cops sewn onto elbow and knee pads. This seems very efficient and also hide under his clothes. If my clothes are period, and this **** turns out to be safe, I may have just beat the equipment game in 3 weeks. Yay for crossover fighters.
I'm glad I have period armor, but really, **** being slow and uncomfortable. With the right garb, like a light linen tunic and some linen drawers, I'll be set. If it works well, I'll post the patterns.
I'm also working on getting pics up of my kit.
FB
Oh, and no bruises this week!

[Slagar]

i just authorized at my first event, Festival of Maidens. Went 3-6 in the pool tourney. I should have done better, but I got sloppy and froze once or twice. * but there are some really good fighters running around. It's nice to see what the deep end of the pool looks like.

As for the plastic. I wear plastic legs and tassets, with floating knees. I wear my bel leather torso, and I'm going leather/splinted bazubands. I'm not sure about pauldrons yet. But yeah, **** period armor, man. Wear what's good, with a tunic over that. My personal favorite example is that Duke Icefalcon, you know, the guy who makes all that sick armor? Yeah, he wears plastic. So, **** period kit. I'm just there to hit folks.

Oh, I also got scolded by the King of the Midrealm for hitting too hard, twice. That was kinda funny. One of 'em was kinda my bad, though, a little excessive.

[Judas]

You can wear plastic and still look ultra-period by concealing it. That is if you want to. Personally, I think it should be hidden as a rule.

[Arrakis]

Finished my pickle barrel CoP last night! I'll garb up and put it on with my gorget, greaves, and my test bracer tonight and post a couple shots.

It looks pretty authentic-ish from the outside, as all you can see if brocade and round copper rivet heads. I learned a lot making it; if I ever do another, preferably out of 18 ga steel, so it'd be Bel-legal, too, it'll come out a lot cleaner.

[Isk]

Another practice down. I'm diggin this.
The scales I put on the helm get caught on my shoulder peices. I put steel bars on the chin on the helm instead. Since they are smooth, nothing gets caught. Sweet.
Yesterday and today I'm building a stealth plastic torso ...thing. Its 6 peices of plastic and some leather. The guy I got the pattern from wears one and you can't see it under his cloths. It's also very light.
The guy also wears plastic elbows and knees that are just cops sewn onto elbow and knee pads. This seems very efficient and also hide under his clothes. If my clothes are period, and this **** turns out to be safe, I may have just beat the equipment game in 3 weeks. Yay for crossover fighters.
I'm glad I have period armor, but really, **** being slow and uncomfortable. With the right garb, like a light linen tunic and some linen drawers, I'll be set. If it works well, I'll post the patterns.
I'm also working on getting pics up of my kit.
FB
Oh, and no bruises this week!

Fork, I am very interested in seeing that design if it works out well. Would you mind bringing it down if you come to WoR? We have a couple of SCA guys down here who occasionally come out to our park and I've thought about trying to jump into their (mostly dead) chapter down here as well.

[Forkbeard]

The new plastic torso armor works great. It's sick **** light. Woo hoo.
I got a bruise on my hip. gotte block that chop to my sword side. To be fair I did block it about 20 times. I only missed 3. 3 to many.hehe.
I also got told I don't hit hard enough. Weird. I already feel guilty about hitting these guys too hard. Apearently, I pull my sword back at the last second when hitting. I think it's left over from trying to be extra fast with a foam sword. Riding the bouce off my opponents equipment to block and strike again.
Got to follow through.
I haven't been told I don't hit hard enough in a long, long time.
FB

[Arrakis]

Fork, get one of 'em to loan you a glaive. Mua ha ha ha ha...