Belegarth

Hey Guys your friendly neighborhood nooby here just throwing out another question. So I like to fight sword N board a lot. Its pretty fun. But I have a problem the other guys in my realm are a lot bigger than me and they like to fight sword n board as well. This creates a problem because I cant hardly reach around them to do a wrap and also I cant really hit them in the front...Id like a buttload of suggestions on how to handle this kind of thing.

I direct your attention to the 'fighting resources' sticky at the very top of this forum. This question is so fundamental that there's no way to really answer it. I mean, footwork, range control, timing, placement, center lines, sword blocks, and a thousand other things go towards getting your sword around the other guy's shield. Go through all the videos up top, really try to absorb them. That's probably the best compilation of foam-fighting instructional material anywhere on the web.

Beyond that, just practice. The more hours you spend with a sword in your hand, the better off you'll be. Make it out to big events, other realms, whatever you can. Find the deepest talent pools you can and dive in headfirst. There's no easy answer to this one, really what you're asking is "how do I fight?".

Ive been digging through most of the stuff for weeks and watching and rewatching things and I havent really found anything that specifically solves this one problem...It seems I stand a legitimate chance against anyone near the same size as me..I just want one specific thing to work on to figure this one out. Like im 5 foot 6 and 110 pounds and my opponent is 6 foot something and a little over 200 pounds...

Show some video.

Given that scenario, the shots that are going to be your biggest friends are the scoop wrap, and the darkside. You can't come over your opponent with high crosses and scorpion wraps, which is good for you in the long run. Means you'll have to develop good fundamentals.

Practice the scoop wrap, the darkside, and hook stabs. These shots will all play to your angles better than most. Good luck.

Ok thanks Slagar but Im not familiar with the Darkside or the Hooks can you link me some learny vids so I can watch and learn!

Hey vox,

I am myself vertically challenged. Firstly, if you can put yourself in a position to counter an opponents shot, height really doesn't play into the equation. Being able to effectively counter swing (taking your opponents arm lets say) midshot is an easy way to mitigate any advantage they may have by mere stature. There is no NEED to use a wrap shot. Often its more benefitial to take an opponents leg and not put all your eggs in one basket going for the kill shot. If they are using a standard round, there is plenty of room to swing under taking their leg or pulling off a kidney shot. With a bit of practice (and someone who's willing to teach you) you could use this in a combo, hopefully forcing your opponent to remain defensive.

Of course every opponent is different and all variables aside each bout you fight will come with obstacles but I hope this at least lets you know you are by no means the only one that deals with this. Short fighters in general have to learn a different set of skills and cannot rely on mere presence to be successful. My best advise would be work on your footwork and weapon control, that should put you in the best position to face any opponent regardless of size.

I don't often research online, but with a quick search, I found this channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/DagorhirFighting#p/u
The skills he demonstrates are applicable to fight any opponent, and are essential to any fighter.

I hope this has helped and best of luck with your training.

Matthias of Numenor

Hook stab
http://www.youtube.com/user/BrennonEH#p ... wsMBsNaoFs

Hip scoop/ Darkside (they call it the cross hip scoop, but it's the same shot)
http://www.youtube.com/user/BrennonEH#p ... HezhTid3vM

Matthias' advice is good. Weapon control and footwork are paramount. I'm showing you these shots because you asked, but I still think your best advice can be found in my first post, or Matthias'.

Also, while wraps aren't strictly necessary, I favor them a lot. You can win a lot of fights just fine without them, and it'll take you a long time to learn them, but I find that they've helped me out a lot. I only really started using them heavily in the last 3-4 months, and I'm liking it. For while you're starting out, though, focus on your basics.

Edit: Fixed the second link. My bad.

Slagar's right, Vox. We're removed from a lot of the action, being where we are, but you still need to make it a priority to fight as many different people as possible. We'll hit up as many events as we can once the season gets started, I promise. In the meantime, the stickied resources on this forum are a goldmine; I, myself, have used them to a degree of success.

Get in touch with me, Vox, and I'll teach you how to throw the darkside like a pro (thanks in no small part to a nugget of wisdom given to me at Okfest by Dane). I've been working my hook stab all winter, too, incidentally, so we can work that out too.

Good technique can chump a biggun like me easily

Vox wrote:... my opponent is 6 foot something and a little over 200 pounds...

I wish I were that light. Try 280ish...

it is no mistake that the basics will win you almost every fight. trickshots and flash will win you a few, and against chumps. but what fun is it to beat a puppy??

range, timing, reading and shot mechanics are where the fight is won. being physical is just a form of range control. counter swinging is mostly timing, wraps and darkside is just mechanics. reading is knowing when to do anything.

whenever i have a trouble spot i continuosly find myself refering back to the basics. when i do, i always find the issue. and lately it has been range control and not making my opponent fight at my range, but letting him fight where he wants to .

Awsome thanks a ton guys!

You're getting high crossed, skyhooked, and shoulder chopped, aren't you? With a few slots thrown in, too?

Lean back just a bit. What's your shield like? You want a 28" round with centered or lower-than-centered straps. That'll let you bring your shield back to cover onside wraps and shoulder wraps. Get good resting shield posture by having Cu or someone shoulder shot you ANYTIME they can hit it. You want that shoulder to be completely unhittable when you're in guard.

Then, work on learning to pocket stab people when they high cross, arm time them when they try those (now useless) shoulder pops, and you'll be free to work on body feints and wraps and other stabs.

Arrakis wrote:Lean back just a bit.

Best. Advice. Ever.

If you're not yet, you should be.

Lean back, or alternately, bring your shield up a bit to cover your shoulder.

Arrakis wrote:You want a 28" round with centered or lower-than-centered straps.

28" might be too big. I'm a small guy (5'10 and a buck thirty) and a 24" round is more than enough to cover all the sweet spots without getting in the way. I typically fight with a 3 sq ft. teardrop, but my next shield is going to be a 26" round and intended more for line fighting. If you're light on your feet, use footwork to make up for a smaller shield instead of the other way around.

YMMV

Giggles wrote:Lean back, or alternately, bring your shield up a bit to cover your shoulder.

Master both. Use them alternatively and at the same time.

Vox,

I'm not sure if you're familiar with Clausewitz but he proposed some tenets of warfare that are still utilized in some form today. While they were geared to large-scale warfare, I've found that these principles can also be applied at the individual and small-unit level.

The principles are:

Objective: Direct every military operation toward a clearly defined, decisive and attainable objective.
Offensive: Seize, retain, and exploit the initiative.
Mass: Mass the effects of overwhelming combat power at the decisive place and time.
Economy of Force: Employ all combat power available in the most effective way possible; allocate minimum essential combat power to secondary efforts.
Maneuver: Place the enemy in a position of disadvantage through the flexible application of combat power.
Unity of Command: For every objective, seek unity of command and unity of effort.
Security: Never permit the enemy to acquire unexpected advantage.
Surprise: Strike the enemy at a time or place or in a manner for which he is unprepared.
Simplicity: Prepare clear, uncomplicated plans and concise orders to ensure thorough understanding.

and this is how I think they apply to individual combat:

Objective: Your objective is to hit your opponent at a point in time and space where he is vulnerable.
Offensive: Control the fight. This doesn't necessarily mean you have to swing first. If you bait your opponent, forcing him to commit to a specific course of action, then you can immediately respond with a counter for that action. You should be defining the flow of the fight, not simply reacting to what your opponent is doing unless this is a deliberate action.
Mass: There are a couple of ways I look at this. Either I'm hitting my opponent with precisely the correct shot at the proper time and place or that I'm using several shots that are specifically designed to overwhelm his defense.
Economy of force: Don't overcommit or overswing. Use just the proper amount of power and movement to throw a shot.
Maneuver: Don't stand in place. Utilize body movement and footwork to gain positional advantage.
Unity of command: This is a little bit difficult to translate at the individual level but I see it as making sure that your attack, defense, and movement are all working together smoothly and are properly integrated to achieve your objective.
Security: Don't give your opponent any tells as to your intentions. Avoid telegraphing your shots or looking at a specific body area before you attack.
Surprise: Hit your opponent in the place and/or time where he least expects it.
Simplicity: Keep your strategies simple and flexible.

That is a very interesting way of looking at things...but it makes a lot of sense!

Target sword arms.

Footwork. If you're smaller, you gotta be faster. If you can't reach around them to get a shot, close quickly and move yourself into a position to make the shot happen.

As Mel hinted at, get up in their face. Being actually vertically challenged (5'2) shoulder drops are my worst enemy (looking at you, Mel.) I use a 28" edhellen strap. While a lower strapped shield is very good in a stand up fight, I find it doesnt protect my back well when I go to do some typical flanker stuff.

Back to getting in their face; big guys have a hard time hitting closer objects. They got a lot of arm to move around. Watch for wraps. Also, if you're significantly shorter than your opponent, hip and butt wraps will manage to sneak under quite a few shields. Try to avoid the throwing shots to the goods, but it is legal. Just remember, if you break your toys you cant play with them. Also, bigger guys have their bellies hanging out around their shields. A good stab or shot can sometimes catch that. And, as always, mow the grass (leg shots). Most people are shorter than even the shortest guys when legged.

Speed. Bigger guy+ bigger shield = slow dude. Generally. Also, if you take my advice and grind (get close) to the guy, be ready to eat shield. It's a common and effective tactic to get some dude out of your face. Try to not let it mess up your game.

As previously stated, arm chops are also nice. Get those pesky shields out of the way. Between good arm shots and good leg shots its sometimes easier to dismantle your opponents rather than force something that's not there. But be ready if that kill shot is there.

Movement is also your friend. This pertains more to fighting multiple people but is also useful against a single opponent. If you dash in, dash out and then retreat, many fighters get sloppy on following. You can use that out-of-position to work something in there.

And as always, remain solid.

Do a barrel roll.

Ok thanks! I think I have got everything I need here to work with, but now I have another question and shall post another topic!

use a flail

Xhorn wrote:use a flail

To quote a board troll of yore, there is not enough face to palm.

Ok please tell me somthing better than a flail to get over a sheild, or either use a red sword to break the shield.

Xhorn wrote:Ok please tell me somthing better than a flail to get over a sheild, or either use a red sword to break the shield.

It's this really nifty thing called technique; try it sometime.

Todo wrote:

Xhorn wrote:Ok please tell me somthing better than a flail to get over a sheild, or either use a red sword to break the shield.

It's this really nifty thing called technique; try it sometime.

For emphasis.

Also, footwork. If you're behind they dont have a shield.

Pick up the biggest shield you can find, and your favorite flail, and go to a national event. After that, you can consider posting advice. Until then, please leave skill development to folks with more experience.

If you're interested in upping your game more quickly, Giggles has put together a compilation of videos at the top of this forum. I've watched or read every link at least once, some of them an obscene number of times. It'd be a worthwhile pursuit.

peanut, you are a behind without a shield.

why am i posting in dead threads. oh well gots to feed the troll.

I am a smaller fighter, when dealing with larger oponents, I use off angles. Instead of running the rails like a train straight in and straight out. Try moving out to the side suddenly, to give ourself better angle of attack.

So instead of this | you move like this / or \. Man I hope that actually makes sense.

Soo Ma Tai wrote:I am a smaller fighter, when dealing with larger oponents, I use off angles. Instead of running the rails like a train straight in and straight out. Try moving out to the side suddenly, to give ourself better angle of attack.

So instead of this | you move like this / or \. Man I hope that actually makes sense.

it makes no sense what so ever yet anyone can understand it...Brilliant i say, just brilliant

three main things id learn for fighting a shield are shoot for the leg after baiting high, shield kicks, and wrap shots.