My first successful spin shot.

[Beck]

I pulled of my first successful spin shot today. On my knees it was a teams of four battle and they had me and my team mate surrounded and I swung at one of the guys threw my shield behind my back and killed him. I died very shortly after that being in a corner and all but it was still a memorable event.

But that is only part of this thread. I'm by no means a vet fighter, this is my second year and I'm still not 16. I just started throwing harder shots and combination's while also involving the footwork angles. I give a lot of credit to now using a 24" strap round instead of a edhellen teardrop which was almost impossible to move around in time+table it. and I dropped the edhellen 36" longsword. I've gotten faster with my footwork and my shot recovery's.

I'm still working on my basics. In all the competitive combat sports I've played which are an impressive... two. Fencing and wrestling they have always taught that basics done by a pro can almost always beat any chump with a trick. I understand the basics (still not great with using them but I can explain the mechanics and such.), haven't got wrap shots yet, at all. But that and sword side blocking are my next big pieces I'm working on.
Advice is always appreciated so are videos and articles but I don't expect you to go out and scrounge the internet for me because I posted a... Well I don't know what to call this I guess it could be fighter development and help the newer fighters understand that I've been fighting for going on two years and just advanced to killing a vet about 15-20% of the time.

[Dangus]

I present to you... the backspin.
10 seconds in is the money shot. This is an insanely fun shot if you can actually pull it off. Clalibus sets it up with a really nice sword side body fake.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wAy7byVn21Y

[Dane]

"Vet" is a subjective term. Good for you, though.

For videos, search for Spyn and Brennon's stuff and anything from SKBC.

[Slagar]

One thing that struck me while reading this is the 'vet vs. noob' thing. That's an extremely artificial distinction. There's no set time at which you go from one to the other, nor does the transition really exist. I've met ten-year fighters who I could smoke with my eyes closed, and there's at least one two-year figher who's at least as good as me. You don't magically become a 'vet' at x number of years. You just train hard, and get better, or you don't.

A corrollary to this is that one realm's 'vets' often suck compared to another realms noobs. The size of the pond you play at affects things too.

I guess what I'm saying is don't get too hung up on the distinction, and whether or not you're a 'vet'. Just play, and try to improve (if that's what you're in it for). Let other people worry about semantics.

[Slagar]

Dammit Dane. Quit that ****. I hit submit, and then come back to the screen to find you beat me to it. Jerk.

[Dane]

Nah, it's good. You elaborated on "subjective."

[Trovan]

Did you yell "Dragon Twistar!" when you did it?

[Beck]

Skiddy, that shot was pretty much one of the best I've seen. It looked like amt, was it?

Dane/Slagar, I didn't realize I was putting so much emphasis on the word vets. What I mean is our local EBF (not that if you're EBF you are instantly anything besides a member of the unit.) and the guys who have been fighting and improving for the better part of a decade they've run events been to most of them, great garb, good equipment, know all the shots can teach them ect. I agree with you that you don't just become the status of veteran, and I don't know where you got the 'vet vs noob thing' (the interwebs going to make that sound like a dig but it's not) I didn't attempt to focus on that in the slightest.

Trovan, No I didn't. I wish I was witty and fast enough to have thought of it at the time but it also requires two swords to do effectively, everyone knows that.

[Dangus]

Skiddy, that shot was pretty much one of the best I've seen. It looked like amt, was it.

Yes, both of those guys are knights of the Sword (Arguably the highest fighting distinction in Amtgard). However, this is more relevant than it seems because, I know for a fact that Clalibus fights with MC swords which are usually ATLEAST 12oz(Mine is closer to 13, and I tried to keep it light) if not more, and solid cored shields. So, for all intents and purposes that guy is pretty much just fighting Bel. I can't really say what Lief is using, as far as weapon tech, but Clal is pretty outspoken about his opposition to Noodle tech swords (as are most non-tards).

Also, adressing wrap shots(kinda missed that in your OP).
I'm going to assume your using a normal flat-bladed blue.
When you hold your sword, your grip should come from your palm and the directional control should come from your thumb(horizontal, along the edge of the blade), and power generation should be a progression from your hips to your forearm. Think about it like this - with a wrap shot you are essentially only turning your hand 45degrees towards the inside of your body, and the actual striking, of your opponent comes with the edge of your sword that points towards you in a normal guard position. If your having a hard time visualizing this - I'm certain there's an SKBC video out there that addresses this exact subject. There's also a ton of variation on the 'standard' wrap shot I just described , but that is what I have found most effective in my close to a decade of foam fighting.

[Dane]

I don't know where you got the 'vet vs noob thing'

I've been fighting for going on two years and just advanced to killing a vet about 15-20% of the time.

You're right. We really had to reach.

[Dangus]

You're right. We really had to reach.

Well, in what other way would you have him denote "the older more experienced fighters"? And why is it bad that he's tracking his progress based on how well he fights superior fighters? I mean... that's only been a major factor in every quality fighters rise. I realize veteran doesn't necessarily imply skill, however when you've been fighting for that relatively short amount of time, often you will just get out-experienced even if you faster, harder and smarter. Albeit you will probably surpass that person, once you've decided that you are motivated enough to not just become that guy.

[Dane]

And why is it bad that he's tracking his progress based on how well he fights superior fighters?

"Vet" is a subjective term.

A corrollary to this is that one realm's 'vets' often suck compared to another realms noobs. The size of the pond you play at affects things too.

I guess what I'm saying is don't get too hung up on the distinction, and whether or not you're a 'vet'. Just play, and try to improve (if that's what you're in it for). Let other people worry about semantics.

*sigh*

[Dangus]

And why is it bad that he's tracking his progress based on how well he fights superior fighters?

"Vet" is a subjective term.

A corrollary to this is that one realm's 'vets' often suck compared to another realms noobs. The size of the pond you play at affects things too.

I guess what I'm saying is don't get too hung up on the distinction, and whether or not you're a 'vet'. Just play, and try to improve (if that's what you're in it for). Let other people worry about semantics.

*sigh*

And why is it bad that he's learning from people better than him? Even if he can't know if it's the best possible learning option.

[bo1]

i believe dane is trying to say, sorry to put words in your mouth buddy( but it is better than what i put in your mouth last night, zing), learning and tracking your progress is a very tricky and sometimes self defeating process.

example. i used to track my self against peter the quick, i would make improvements, learn as much as i could, train like mad, then i would see him at an event and would do no better.

another, my local realm, i would help people train, show them new things work on timing. i would usually be the best fighter at practice. i could beat people 3 vs me. now i have to work really hard at it to win 2 v 1.

so have i stagnated, no, have i back slid, no. what happened. peter has continually improved jsut as i have. my realm has improved much faster than i have, they are 10 working to improve i am only one.

so with that, i say that it is great that you are ikmproving and learning from the best fighters you can. remember that to truely be great you have to travel and learn from many fighters and understand all styles. i know that ohio has a style, numenor has a style, wolfpack has a style, iowa has a style. those are the styles that i can clearly see. there are many mnany more, even realm to realm. all thiose styles clash and have advantages and liabilities, learn those and you will be well served by them,.

[Argent]

we iowan's got a style?

[Slagar]

You're right. We really had to reach.

Well, in what other way would you have him denote "the older more experienced fighters"? And why is it bad that he's tracking his progress based on how well he fights superior fighters? I mean... that's only been a major factor in every quality fighters rise. I realize veteran doesn't necessarily imply skill, however when you've been fighting for that relatively short amount of time, often you will just get out-experienced even if you faster, harder and smarter. Albeit you will probably surpass that person, once you've decided that you are motivated enough to not just become that guy.

You don't measure yourself against other fighters, you measure yourself against yourself. Are you better than yesterday? Are you better than last week? How are you better? Are you faster, more precise, are you throwing shots that you couldn't before? There are literally hundreds of ways to determine your progress that don't require you to compare yourself to the biggest fish at your pond. The advantages to this are manifold, but mostly it helps you keep perspective, and have fun.

If you are going 7-3 against your best opponent, and then show up to an event and square off with Galin or Kenny, you're gonna be really disappointed. On the other hand, you'll come away from that event a vastly superior fighter compared to when you showed up.

The other side of the coin, this is the only way to measure progress once you've become the biggest fish in the pond. There are plenty of practices when the really heavy hitters can't show up, and I'm the big fish. How do I measure my progress then? Against myself, or not at all.

It may seem like a small point, but from a mindset perspective, it's huge. Read some Agrippa, you'll see what I mean. Fighting is purely objective, measured against an objective standard. Anything else gives you a warped perspective.

[Dane]

but it is better than what i put in your mouth last night, zing

I'm a sucker for that sugar-coated candy cane. Get it? Sucker.

[Slagar]

Go play some gamecube.

[Beck]

Have I been improving, Definitely. The biggest thing I've been able to notice is aggression. I now at least attempt to control tempo and range in a fight and I've noticed a drastic increase in the amount of fights I win and the amount of shots I throw and land. I think I've gotten off that first plateau I had the same issue in Wrestling and Fencing. I went from being purely reactive and defensive to proactive and offensive. Another reason I compare myself to the best fighters in my realm is that just like in wrestling and fencing the top guys are going to progress more slowly (in general) there aren't enough new things for them to learn. Limited high level fighters to spar with Ect. I guess this just goes for the "don't compare yourself to only the top fighter in your realm" bit. I'm tracking my progress through them. But I also notice the dramatic increase in my fighting ability since I got back from my first event ( Mux Mayhem.). I went from throwing legs shots 2/3s of the time to using a much more diverse amount of shots. I've only been to one event but after rag/geddon I probably won't miss more then a third of them until I'm out of CC and to an on campus college. So right now I can't judge my fighting ability to the top 10% because I haven't met them. Do I want to be the best fighter out there? Yes. I guess in short I've branched off from the things Kenneth has pointed out about new fighters in his blog. I now am able to use and try to use the stuff he says to do instead. Also me being 15, almost all of this will sound different in my head compared to you reading it. No matter how many times I read it out loud.

[Slagar]

None of this was meant to be a criticism, man. I do apologize if it came off that way.

My original post was the only advice I could think to offer, based on what you'd said. My most recent post was meant to offer an answer to Skiddy's question of "How do you describe progress without comparing yourself to superior fighters?". Overall, I think you're doing fine. You're hitting events, you're putting in the effort, and you're seeking advice when and how you can. That's pretty much the straightest path to becoming a great fighter. I'm just offering what advice I can think of to help you keep what I consider to be the correct mindset while you grow as a fighter. No worries, mate.

For the record, you don't read like you're fifteen. You do read like you're a new fighter, but other than that you're comprehensible and decently well-spoken. I wish half this board could manage as much.