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 Post subject: axes V mace V blade V flail
PostPosted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 9:46 am 
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okay, so lots of people go [blank] and board and i thought i'd ask for some opinions on why people use alternatives to the sword in their gear combo- some like the flail being obvious because it auto wraps for you, but other things that confuse me are blue axes, which don't (from my inexperienced perspective) seem to have a real edge over a sword, or maces (a mace being what i use now.) what do you guys rock besides a blue sword and why do you do it is i guess the question.

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 Post subject: Re: axes V mace V blade V flail
PostPosted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 10:40 am 
Brute
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I think if you fight with a sword long enough, you'll find that you usually only hit with the last 6" of it, except for wraps. As you said, the flail is used for getting around shields. Maces are used because they are often omnidirectional, much like some of the lighter Amtgard swords you see around sometimes. Axes are more rarely used, but a bearded axe (with a strip of leather under the blade) can pull shields. The axe also acts like a flail because the axe head sticks a few inches out of the blade, making it easier to hit a shoulder over a shield with a chop, or hit an arm or body around a shield.


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 Post subject: Re: axes V mace V blade V flail
PostPosted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 11:31 am 
Slayer
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No good fighters ever really use axes. They're kind of a flurb thing. Axes are cool, and have lots of historical coolness. In our game, they are a horrible idea, and should only be used to show extreme contempt for your opponents.

Flails are pretty obvious in their pros and cons. They wrap for you, and are harder to sword-block. They also are much slower in their attacks, and have pathetic defensive capabilities. Overall, I'm not a huge fan, I just don't appreciate what they offer. Some people make it work.

Maces are wierd (assuming you mean the big top-heavy clubs, not the lightsaber-esque 'round swords'). They're omnidirectional, yeah. They also have really small striking surfaces, and are weighted kinda wierd. I've never seen anybody really good pick one up and go with it, so I'm not sure what advantages they'd offer.

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 Post subject: Re: axes V mace V blade V flail
PostPosted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 7:13 pm 
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so the consensus is that variations on a theme are cute, but the sword is still the way to go, am i right? can i hear from someone who disagrees so i know why (i am starting to really see axes as useless, though, which is a bummer because they ARE cool)

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 Post subject: Re: axes V mace V blade V flail
PostPosted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 1:08 pm 
Brute
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Because of the maximum striking surface of swords, they allow the most versatility in shots.

They're also the most widespread weapon, so there are plenty of great fighters developing skill in the sword. Also, sword skill transfers to nearly every other weapon, so once you are a master of the sword, you can wield the others quite effectively.


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 Post subject: Re: axes V mace V blade V flail
PostPosted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 7:08 pm 
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right right right, but at least up here in the PNW, i see a LOT of clubbage and flailing, and something bish called 'easy mode' and i just wanted to hear about the alternate arm school of thought on fighting, because i think the more i understand why people do some of the things they do, the more i'll understand the **** I do, thus helping me kick a little more * at the game.

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 Post subject: Re: axes V mace V blade V flail
PostPosted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 10:27 pm 
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I prefer a speed bat, which is different than a mace.

A speed bat offer you the 360 degree striking surface of the mace, but the goal is to use a mix of foams to make them as thin as possible. The big key of a lot of these vs a sword is that a sword can hit a gap much easier, because they're thinner. So that gap between your shield and your sword, for example, is easier to clip with a slot shot.

However, for a lot of shots, such as the flat wrap or the dark side, you have the switch your grip up on the sword so you lead with your edge. Now, I'm not an expert on these shots, but the idea is sound, you have to change your grip to throw certain shots with a sword, with a speed bat I just change how I use my wrist.

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 Post subject: Re: axes V mace V blade V flail
PostPosted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 12:33 am 
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I fight with one of the big Edhellen maces and I rather enjoy it. Not having to worry about flatting people and having enough weight to muscle most punch shields out of the way is kind of nice.

But then again, I'm not what you would consider a "good" fighter, so what the hell do I know...

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 Post subject: Re: axes V mace V blade V flail
PostPosted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 9:10 am 
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All weapons are good weapons.
Slagar, your full of ****.
All of our weapons have the potential to weighted perfectly. They are **** foam after all, not steel and wood.
If you make a mace correctly, it is not wieghted funny at all.
Flails are not, in any way, slower than swords. There are a couple shots that don't work as good with them, but in the long run, for Bel, they are far superior. To the point of cheesyness, which is why they are declining in popularity. More people are interested in being good fighters. Flails work so good they can make you lazy. Then your skills start slipping.
Axes are just like maces, but they require more skill. They are a lot of fun. I was crushing people with a short edhellen double blade just yesterday. The problem with axes is lifespan. They just don't last long enough in this violent game. I'm too lazy to keep mine up.
Swords are the best becuase they have the best of all worlds in a weapon. They are as small as possible, last a long time and are usually basicly the same. Anyone who fights can pick up nearly any sword and just fight.
Yes they are the best all around.
No, everything else are not lesser weapons.
And just becuase YOU don't see the good fighters around you doing something, do not presume they don't ever. Nor should you assume that other fighters in other areas don't use weapons other than swords.
Make every weapons you want and try them out.
Don't make Sythes.
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 Post subject: Re: axes V mace V blade V flail
PostPosted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 9:41 am 
Slayer
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True, you could counterweight a mace to remove the top-heaviness. I didn't really consider that. My bad.

Other than that you're dead wrong, though. Sorry. Flails are much slower and less precise, and axes blow goats. I've watched most of the best foam-fighters in the world, from multiple games, and gone so far as to actually talk to them about what they think, and why. You're just plain wrong, man. :fingers: :fingers:

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 Post subject: Re: axes V mace V blade V flail
PostPosted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 9:50 am 
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oh boy here we go.

are you ready??? ( points to slagar)

are you ready??? ( points to fork)

lets get is on!!!!!

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 Post subject: Re: axes V mace V blade V flail
PostPosted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 10:24 am 
Barbarian
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I don't see how flails are considered slower, sure if we are talking about my flail (it's heavy compared to other ppl's flails in my realm and plus i just suck with it) but calarn and darvax have flails and i think they are just as fast with there flails as they are with their swords.

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 Post subject: Re: axes V mace V blade V flail
PostPosted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 11:13 am 
Brute
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Argent, I believe he is talking about from strike to strike. The initial strike on a flail can be as fast as a sword if you have it ready, but it takes longer to reset than a sword because of its wonky weighted nature. To get a sufficient strike with a flail, you need to reset the ball so you can swing it through for maximum rotation. Which means you're doing some wrist rotation or other method of resetting. With swords you don't have any rotation in between chops and stabs and wraps.

Part of the reason why flails are frowned upon is that people don't pull them back for full force swings. People may take the light sidearm taps with the flail, but in general, most people would like to have heavier flail heads and harder swung hits.


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 Post subject: Re: axes V mace V blade V flail
PostPosted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 11:16 am 
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Quote:
There are a couple shots that don't work as good with them, but in the long run, for Bel, they are far superior.
Against inferior fighters.

Quote:
True, you could counterweight a mace to remove the top-heaviness. I didn't really consider that. My bad.
Wouldn't really have a mace, then. Maces ought to be top-heavy momentum weapons. A counter-weighted mace is...an awful sword?

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 Post subject: Re: axes V mace V blade V flail
PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 9:14 am 
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Slagar, you have been fighting a few years, yes, but you have not seen or talked to "most of the best foam fighters in the world". You have seen the best tricks a few people have developed over the last few years. You have seen everybody else copy those trick over and over again for the last few years.
I've been doing this for 17 this month! I have seen this pattern over and over again.
Some slick dude come up with a style that beats everybody elses'. Everybody fanboy's that poor sap until either he gets bored and move on or the next style comes along that beats him.
Then everybody swears by the skills of the new jock with the new style.
But non of that was my point.
My point was first that "good fighters" defiently use non sword weapons. I see them doing it all the time. Both in pictures and in person. The people who beat you regularly might not use anything but swords, but since when do you fight everyone in the country?
My point was also about construction.
With the extraordinarily light materials we use one can construct anything to be as light and wel balanced as a sword. The standard edhellen hafted weapons are not made well, and usually throw funny. But they can be modified to work well and if you start from scratch, anything can be done if you're crafty and clever.
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 Post subject: Re: axes V mace V blade V flail
PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 10:02 am 
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And if I was talking about one guy, that might be true man. Give me some credit.

I fight with Galin, Kenny, Physic, and Angel all the time. I've been to 18 events in the last three years, and fought people from all over the country and with people from other countries. I've fought with, and talked with, Arthon, Dogboy, Lief, Drakknar, Bhakdar, and Kerb. Every single person on that list has been fighting longer than Peter (I'm assuming that's who you're talking about, since you won't actually say it), and none of them fight a * thing like him. There are plenty more, too (I kept the list short). The only A-lister that I know I've missed out on (there are some I don't know about, I'm sure) right now is Ruben, and I keep looking for excuses to truck my * out west to meet him. I go far and wide out of my way to learn what there is to know, man. Swordfighting (this game and others) is my only hobby, and I put a lot of time and effort into it. Don't write me off just because I'm from Illinois, and that's what's popular right now. Some **** is true, regardless of the whatever the current fad is. This is one of those.

And to your actual point: yeah, good fighters **** around with bad weapons all the time, because people play this game to have fun. Personally, I pick up a glaive when I want to just play. It's a freakin' blast, and I love doing it. But that doesn't change the fact that the clear 'best option' is a sword. Nothing else even comes close. He wasn't asking "what are my options?". He knows what the weapons styles are. He was asking 'what's good?" What do other fighters use, and why? The simple answer is, good fighters use swords because they're good, flails because they mow down noobs and low- to mid-level fighters without much effort, and anything else because they're goofing around. There are pictures of me running around with a glaive, and Galin running around with a turbo-red, redding the **** out of people. Come offer me a challenge, and you bet your * I run straight back to my sword and shield. Same for him. Same for most of the A-list, to be honest (not that I'm on it, mind you. I'm working, but I'm not even close yet).

Yeah. Dude could use whatever he wanted. That's the beauty of our game. It's important to go into it eyes open, though. If you pick up a flail because it's fun, I could care less. Just know that you're gonna plateau, and have to work twice as hard past a certain point (some people do, and are pretty solid for it). If you wanna use a pole, go for it. I love 'em. You're a support character, though, and you should know that going in. That's all I'm saying. He knows the options, I was trying to tell him what each one was worth.

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 Post subject: Re: axes V mace V blade V flail
PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 2:53 pm 
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i don't really give a **** about forkbeard or slagar's arguements but i would like to say something about flail speed. as a dedicated flail fighter flails themselves are not the slower weapon, because of the rope/cloth hinge in the design of our weapons they have a delay . the half swings just as fast as a sword then you get it with the ball. some people consider this a defect but i has been my expierence that if you understand the mechanics of the flail then you can use the delay as an advantage so that their defense is already on the move thinking they have blocked the shot.

on the point of plateu that slagar brought up, you can plateue with any weapon. my first five years of the sport i fought sword and i platue'd about 4 years in and stuck at the same level of fighting. around a couple of years ago i picked up a flail for the purpose of beating people better than i. i won't make the * qualifier that a flail doesnt make me a better fighter cause it's not true. i will make the qualify that if i kill you it doesnt **** matter what i used cause your still dead and thats why i stepped on the field, to kill you. by that same token if you again have issue with a flail, learn to block better. i fight flail and i can block a flail its something i learned from picking one up. picking up a flail in the last few years has added several shots into my sword shot selection that i neither understood nor was able to complete in my first tenure with sword. now i generally fight sword/speedbat in grand melees and ball and wall in unit battles and tourneys cause i want to win those more.

fight with everything just put some devotion to whatever it is your fighting with. atm im trying to learn to fight red, which i am clumsy and retard fighting with.

and on my point about slagars platuea i killed him with a flail * wrap for 2 events everytime i fought him 3rd event we saw each other at he had learned to block it. everything plateaus fight good people and fight with what you want to get out of a slump of that nature.

now im sure some grammer nazi will come in here and rip me up for those awful paragraphs but **** it im a fighter not a writer

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 Post subject: Re: axes V mace V blade V flail
PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 3:10 pm 
Slayer
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The point about the plateaus is dead on. I've hit 'em with a sword before, for months at a time. Everybody does, I think. In my experience people that pick up flails early hit plateaus earlier, and harder. That doesn't mean sword-users don't find them too.

As for a flail making you a better fighter... we're gonna have to disagree. To use your own terms, it sure as hell makes you a better killer. As a fighter, I don't think so. That's just me, though.

The bit about the mechanics of a flail swing are interesting. I intend to poke at that, and see what I can do about exploiting it. Thanks for that. It's something new for me.

Titan G wrote:
fight with everything just put some devotion to whatever it is your fighting with.


Not bad advice at all.

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 Post subject: Re: axes V mace V blade V flail
PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 3:33 pm 
Mercenary
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i think ANY style can make you a better fighter, i only learned to throw a wrap shot because a flails funky mechanics pulled my arm out of its comfort zone and into the correct angling that all wrap shots to the lower back or buttocks should take. this is because my sword work is totally speed depended as opposed to the pump fakes and finesse i use to open a flail shot.

and i'm not saying you can't plateua with a flail either but if you truly examine them flail mechanics are completely different from sword mechanics and you can learn to do UNIQUE things with a sword that you learn from a flail and vice versa.

weapons are weapons in my personal beleif they are only gonna be as good as the fighter using them. i personally beleive im a pretty * solid flail user and im going to beat most people i go up against who are sword and board. i'm also gonna beat most people i go up against who are ball and wall. when i fight the majority of people i have a pretty good chance of winning regardless of style. when i encounter people who are good enough for me to need that advantage on such as galin or winfang or elwrath or a myriad of the other 1% then they should be so * good that it doesnt matter WHAT im using. point in fact i don't fight galin or winfang with flail because they are so * good at flail defense its actually a disadvantage and i am aware enough of this to pick up a sword cause while i am better with a flail my array of shots with a sword is vastly larger.

another point to the orginal poster, you will kill more people will a flail you will kill better people with a sword and if you are exceptional you will do both with whatever you * well please.

i fight flail cause i like the fighting style not because it confers and advantage. i won't deny that it DOES indeed convey one but its one that i honestly don't feel i need. i can pick up a club and be pretty * nasty as well. its all about learning. i'm a * good flail fighter because i watched all those videos at the top of this forum doing sword and board stuff and tried to do it all with a flail. that doesnt mean i can do it all but it means ive got a pretty mean selection of **** to do as long as i accompany it with a shield.without a shield im **** but im working on that

another comment directed at the orginal poster:
it's not just weapon selection but selection of style. right now technical style is the prominent style while when i started flow fighting was really the norm. learn whats best for you whats best for youbody style AND your mind set. I'm a big guy and one of my biggest problems orginally was i wanted to fight like a little guy. i have quick hands and a sports back ground so i was more inclined to show that of instead of my size. it took vokor punching me in the face with a shield til i got mad enough for me to knock his giant **** * back with an edge to the throat. play how you want but also play how you should.

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 Post subject: Re: axes V mace V blade V flail
PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 10:37 pm 
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Quote:
(i am starting to really see axes as useless, though, which is a bummer because they ARE cool)


axes are not really useless. infact I use one all the time. it addes intimidation and in the right hands is (in my opinion) beter than a sword. im able to move shiuld and steal deliver a strike.


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 Post subject: Re: axes V mace V blade V flail
PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 11:01 pm 
Mercenary
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if you move my shield with an axe your either thor or i've gone retarded.

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 Post subject: Re: axes V mace V blade V flail
PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 11:08 pm 
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if you move my shield with an axe your either thor or i've gone retarded.


Not only did this make me laugh, but it's so fact it should be written into the constitution.

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 Post subject: Re: axes V mace V blade V flail
PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 8:22 am 
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My experience after 21 years of foam fighting, albeit mostly in a sport with slightly different rules, is that the statement that swords are better than axes holds a lot of water. I base my belief that swords are best on the fact that across all that time the vast majority of figthers have used swords. I understand that swords are a little easier to make than other types but competative people are willing to go to great lengths to win a few more fights so if some other weapon type was really better than swords, you would see the most competative making and using those weapons.

Its sort of adaptive proof that swords are best. Given that most of my experience is in Amtgard where flails face a ton of social pressure, I wont say 100% that flails might not be as good or * close to as good as swords although the fact that since I have been in Bel the sword is very much more common than the flail suggests the same.

Again when I say swords are best I dont mean that Axes suck or that no one can be effective with an axe. Using a sword might only get you one more kill out of 50 fights than an axe. For some people that one more kill might not matter. Across the agregate it does. In fact for the most competative of us, even one kill out of 50 matters.

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 Post subject: Re: axes V mace V blade V flail
PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 1:19 pm 
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Started Fighting: 20 Aug 2006
Realm: Dun Abhon
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Favorite Fighting Styles: red mace/ sowed n board
[quote][/quote]if you move my shield with an axe your either thor or i've gone retarded.

i am 6'4, around 320 pounds and most of the people i train with are posibly half my size, and use punch shiulds, in other words easy to move.

i wasn't trying to start an argument with you just inform him that axes arn't useless.


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 Post subject: Re: axes V mace V blade V flail
PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 1:43 pm 
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Still I can move someones shield just as easily with a sword as an axe. Its not the mass in a foam sword is that different. And if you are trying to hook my shield with an axe you are wasting your time. The amount of effort it takes to hook a shield and actually control it in foam is rediculously high for the little bit of effort it is for me to roll my shoulder and make your hook worthless. I have had good fighters try far to much to hook my shield and fail when they should be spending that time trying to kill me outright.

Sure you can get a kill with an axe. But a wrap shot man do i do those more.


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 Post subject: Re: axes V mace V blade V flail
PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 4:09 pm 
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jkarn wrote:
i am 6'4, around 320 pounds and most of the people i train with are posibly half my size, and use punch shiulds, in other words easy to move.

i wasn't trying to start an argument with you just inform him that axes arn't useless.



yea man it's ok i didn't think you were but like varadin said above, anything you can do with an axe i can do with a sword. axes have less striking surface, less mobility due to the odd shape of the head when in addition to a shield (this causes tangling issues), and as far as intimidation factor most people on the combat boards are people who are in fighting for the sport/competetion side of the game ergo they aren't going to be intimidated. by and large you should be using one of a few things if you want to be a crediable (fill-in-the-blank) and shield, a speed bat, lightsaber, sword of certain varying dementions (not to long not to short, somewhere in between) or a flail. of course you can come off with other things if you work REALLY REALLY hard at them but by and large if you come at me with an axe and a shield and i don't already known who you are, im one shotting you and moving on and so are most of the other posters here.

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 Post subject: Re: axes V mace V blade V flail
PostPosted: Sat Mar 13, 2010 7:14 am 
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I was thinking about this.
When talking about what "good fighters" fight with, we have to keep in mind what makes a good fighter.
I think most of our disagreement here is stemming from the fact that I do not consider people who use exclusivly S&B good fighters. No matter how good they get, I don't think of them as a good all around fighter until they are proficient in all weapons. I know many people don't feel this is important, but it is to me. And I tend to think in terms of what is important to me.
Being the best at one thing is cool, don't get me wrong. I have emense respect for my freinds who specialize in S&B and are like lightning with these weapons.
For myself however(and the people I think are REALLY good fighters), I expect more. It's a much longer road than learning to be a one trick pony, but once you realize you're never going to stop fighting, it doesn't matter how long it takes.
To our original poster, I say, people use weird weapons because
a) they are weird(this is the usual reason)
b) they are roleplaying some persona and they want to fight with weapons to match.
c) they want to learn, however dificult, to fight with everything allowed to them.
As a beginer in this group, I would stick to swords until I felt my construction skills allowed me to make advanced versions of non-sword weapons. Hafted weapons will fall apart if not made corectly and will swing all wrong is made improperly. Making good weapons is just as hard(maybe harder) than learning to fight well with them.
FB

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 Post subject: Re: axes V mace V blade V flail
PostPosted: Sat Mar 13, 2010 8:51 am 
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Fair enough, man. I can definitely see where you're coming from with that. And I agree, the best fighters should be able to pick up anything and go with it. It's a requirement for most knight lineages, most unit ranks, and just generally being a badass. Cool.

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 Post subject: Re: axes V mace V blade V flail
PostPosted: Sun Mar 14, 2010 1:48 pm 
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That was lame, you guys should just start flaming each other. LAME.

lol

Tons of good stuff in there though. well put on many fronts.

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 Post subject: Re: axes V mace V blade V flail
PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 5:56 am 
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Favorite Fighting Styles: Sword and board, flourentine style
I know I've been only fighting for 5-6 months but I enjoy using swords and maces. Swords for the obivious reasons, since it helps me aim and gives me a little way to get better with my shot inputs. The mace for when I can get my left arm working for shot inputs. In overall I seen them teaching me in both shot placement and powering my weaker arm. The flail I picked up but put back down. To me it's kinda not fair having the ball do the work for me, when I can come up close with a S&B and snipe your hips and legs .


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 Post subject: Re: axes V mace V blade V flail
PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 10:23 pm 
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Dear ImJustKU,

Please check dates on posts before you consider posting. This thread has been dead for two years. Thnak you, and enjoy your Bel boards stay.


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 Post subject: Re: axes V mace V blade V flail
PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 3:55 pm 
Forum Gordon Ramsay
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He's just trying to get into the Halloween spirit, what with the necrothreading. Spooky stuff!

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 Post subject: Re: axes V mace V blade V flail
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 7:23 pm 
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As a fairly new fighter I have had good success with axes. They are great for getting around shields much like flails. They tend to hit hard due to being top heavy, I notice that less people call light against them. Also they are great in a line for shield hooking. Put a stabby tip on it and a long handle for a pretty effective halberd. The biggest difficulty is hitting with a pretty small striking surface. You really need to practice with this weapon.


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 Post subject: Re: axes V mace V blade V flail
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 11:02 pm 
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A few things:

1) Hi, welcome to the bel boards. Stay awhile and listen. And no, I'm not just quoting Deckard Cain, I mean you should probably lurk around a bit before posting anything.

2) As typical forum etiquette, try not to necro threads that are over a few months old unless you have really significant information to add. Think ground breaking

3) As a newer fighter, you have yet to experience the wider game as a whole. As such, your insight into fighting techniques are lacking. In a few years you'll have much more knowledge in the matter. Also, if you are fighting newer fighters, they don't represent the games skill as a whole, so your fighting techniques may work on them but most likely will not work on more experienced fighters.

Also, when I say experienced fighters I really mean experienced as in hours of practice. Until you break about 300 hours of practice you really dont have much an idea of what you are doing. At about 600 hours you really break veteran status.


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 Post subject: Re: axes V mace V blade V flail
PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 3:40 pm 
Only .3% Short Of Perfect
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The point of this forum is to discuss fighter skill and development. As such, the normal rules about thread necro'ing do not apply. Peanut, if you don't want to specifically disabuse Redbeard of his opinion with pointed arguments, then really the only person out of place here is you.


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 Post subject: Re: axes V mace V blade V flail
PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 6:28 pm 
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If something has been necroed twice was it ever really dead or was it just hibernating?

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 Post subject: Re: axes V mace V blade V flail
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 9:40 pm 
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Brutus: I apologize. Rereading the thread again, all the points to disabuse his points are included in the thread already. Therefore a quick, gentle welcome to the boards was in order, in particular the point about not adding anything monumental. If you wish to discuss further, we can get together at the next event.

Phis: Yes, it was dead. It just didn't die well enough the first time. Perhaps we should use fire this time.


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 Post subject: Re: axes V mace V blade V flail
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 11:20 pm 
Only .3% Short Of Perfect
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Was that just an internet confrontation that deescalated quickly? What is this new devilry?

I think our boards have become a cess-pool, and a lot of that is because people aren't being polite, especially to new users. As the old guard retires, new members need to be welcomed to the board. Yes, they don't contribute in the way that us seasoned keyboard-cowboys are used to, but unless it's in General Mayhem (where flaming is allowed by the rules, even if it's still RUDE) then if you don't have anything nice to say...

We need to rebuild the user base of the Belegarth boards. While our events are huge and there are surely more Belegrim than ever before, these boards are dead. I remember when there were *hundreds* of posts a day, now there are like 10. So everyone should do everything they can to encourage new users, even while they are still learning how the community operates.


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