Sword and Board Defenses

[Jorvik the Jarl]

OK. I ve tried a few things to block from a flail, but dear god these things are cheese to the max. but i beleive i have found a solution to this madness. i notice as i turn to the left when a strike to my left is applied, it prevents the cheese from wrapping, would this be a defense i should i actually aply to the flail? ill take suggestions as well. Raul is here to learn from my fellows.

[Beck]

Put a little gangster lean, back and to the left, take his arm. Flails do wrap but they are slower. Everyone has different stances for different styles they are fighting.

[shamus o toole]

if you're good at the shield juke, then work it- a lot of flail-ing that vox and orion do involves striking FOR the shield to make it wrap and tap the shoulder, i assume other newer flail tactics are similar, so just fake it so the ball won't catch you and then take the arm from under your shield- works better with a punch and it's hard to remember to pull if you're in a big skirmish, but it's what worked for me last couple of practices.

[Slagar]

I must not assume other people are stupid.
I must not assume I know better than other people.
I must not assume other people are stupid.
I must not assume I know better than other people.
I must not assume other people are stupid.
I must not assume I know better than other people.
I must not assume other people are stupid.
I must not assume I know better than other people.
I must not assume other people are stupid.
I must not assume I know better than other people.
I must not assume other people are stupid.
I must not assume I know better than other people.
I must not assume other people are stupid.
I must not assume I know better than other people.
I must not assume other people are stupid.
I must not assume I know better than other people.

[bo1]

silly lefty, dipping to the left for a righty is blocking with the shield on the shield side. think OUTSIDE the box. love ya


rolling the shoulders to the left will help stop the flail if you are a righty, you are fighting a righty and the flail user is attempting to attack your shield side.

if they attack the sword side, lower your stance, use your sword 12 inches above your hand to swat the chain, then return a shot to the arm\shoulder. use the 12 inch above you hand to stop the ball from hitting your arm or anything esle.

[bo1]

silly lefty, dipping to the left for a righty is blocking with the shield on the shield side. think OUTSIDE the box. love ya


rolling the shoulders to the left will help stop the flail if you are a righty, you are fighting a righty and the flail user is attempting to attack your shield side.

if they attack the sword side, lower your stance, use your sword 12 inches above your hand to swat the chain, then return a shot to the arm\shoulder. use the 12 inch above you hand to stop the ball from hitting your arm or anything esle.

[Jorvik the Jarl]

yes quite, the gangster lean actually works, just gotta work it in to more of my work thanks a bunch:D

[Jorvik the Jarl]

Ok i forgot, the lean works, but one of my main problems now is the shoulder wrap, the * flail keeps wraping round the top of my sheild, i dont quite wana lean back(in fear of being spartan kicked and knocked off balance), but i was trained to always keep the sheild close to me, so should a lift of the sheild solve this or is there another way.

[Beck]

I must not assume other people are stupid.
I must not assume I know better than other people.
I must not assume other people are stupid.
I must not assume I know better than other people.
I must not assume other people are stupid.
I must not assume I know better than other people.
I must not assume other people are stupid.
I must not assume I know better than other people.
I must not assume other people are stupid.
I must not assume I know better than other people.
I must not assume other people are stupid.
I must not assume I know better than other people.
I must not assume other people are stupid.
I must not assume I know better than other people.
I must not assume other people are stupid.
I must not assume I know better than other people.

Was this directed at me? Bos' response was directed at this?

[Slagar]

That's an edit. Bo's response was at my original post. My original post was mean, and misguided, so I replaced it with this.

[Forkbeard]

Block the flial rope with your sword.
If you do it right, you get to keep the flail.
That and move your **** feet.
FB

[Jorvik the Jarl]

Block the flial rope with your sword.
If you do it right, you get to keep the flail.
That and move your **** feet.
FB

Awesome tyvm

[Jorvik the Jarl]

ok, now the proble is the bearded axe, do i just prevent that from gettin near me at all?

[Soo Ma Tai]

Bearded Axe- Block the head, not the haft. Control the range so the head isn't past your shield/sword defense.

[Jorvik the Jarl]

awesome il give it a try

[Jorvik the Jarl]

Bearded Axe- Block the head, not the haft. Control the range so the head isn't past your shield/sword defense.

awesome that helped ty.

[Jorvik the Jarl]

ok, now my concern is with wrap shots, would a good body turn,(towards the wrap) be a general defense towards it? because usually the only chance someone can get a wrap on me is when he and i are both right on top eachother and obviously the wrap shot is available for us both, is it just balls to the wall from there or (insert opinion here)

[Rakhir]

There are tricks to improve your chances at close range, such as stepping slightly past to their shield side or jamming their shot with your shield prior to them getting arm extension. These are just tricks to improve your odds in a bad situation, though. Handy to learn but not to be relied on.

The real solution to this (and your previous questions) is range control. The close game is dangerous and you should only stay there as long as you have the advantage. Get in, execute your plan and get out.

The best exit strategies involve lateral movement (never back straight out) away from your opponent's good shot angles while presenting a credible threat to your opponent, forcing them to go on the defensive whie you escape.

[Satanaka]

best block- no be there....

[Jorvik the Jarl]

awesome i like your exit strategy, it would seem to help, (I should try first)
but yeah ill be posting my problems every now and then.
ty so far. been a real help to Raul.

[Slagar]

There are tricks to improve your chances at close range, such as stepping slightly past to their shield side or jamming their shot with your shield prior to them getting arm extension. These are just tricks to improve your odds in a bad situation, though. Handy to learn but not to be relied on.

The real solution to this (and your previous questions) is range control. The close game is dangerous and you should only stay there as long as you have the advantage. Get in, execute your plan and get out.

The best exit strategies involve lateral movement (never back straight out) away from your opponent's good shot angles while presenting a credible threat to your opponent, forcing them to go on the defensive whie you escape.

Best advice so far. Go with this.

[Dane]

Best block: already be there.

[Jorvik the Jarl]

wow the pull out at and angle thing works pretty decent.
now Raul is right handed, (shield in left)
most of the time Rauls in a defensive stance(left foot forward) now
when raul pulls out and sees a chance to strike (and Rauls gotten very good at stance switching in combat since last year) should Raul switch to my offensive stance(rightfoot forward) as i pull out and try for a strike? i think thats what you were explaining Rak.
if not correct me if you could

[Beck]

wow the pull out at and angle thing works pretty decent.
now Raul is right handed, (shield in left)
most of the time Rauls in a defensive stance(left foot forward) now
when raul pulls out and sees a chance to strike (and Rauls gotten very good at stance switching in combat since last year) should Raul switch to my offensive stance(rightfoot forward) as i pull out and try for a strike? i think thats what you were explaining Rak.
if not correct me if you could

You should be able to switch stances, sword grips, angles and styles seemlessly.
There is no perfect stance or fighting style. A-Frame will get you far and is a good default but you need to be able to adapt as the situation calls for it. The only time I switch to right foot forward is spin shots(ha). And long range stabs.
You get extra range and are a bit more exposed. You can always try all sorts of goofy **** at practice. Work on your close game, when you break from it try a spin shot. It probably won't work but it's practice. Practice is where you learn what works and what doesn't it is also the place you improve those shots that do work. Events are where you use what works. Even if winning is your only goal you gotta experiment.

[Slagar]

Beck, you should probably wait another year or two before giving this sort of advice. Right leg forward stance has lots of uses, and is in fact the favored stance for fighting same-handed fighters.

Adaptability is good, though. Yeah.

[Rakhir]

Htt

wow the pull out at and angle thing works pretty decent.
now Raul is right handed, (shield in left)
most of the time Rauls in a defensive stance(left foot forward) now
when raul pulls out and sees a chance to strike (and Rauls gotten very good at stance switching in combat since last year) should Raul switch to my offensive stance(rightfoot forward) as i pull out and try for a strike? i think thats what you were explaining Rak.
if not correct me if you could

Here is a sample of what I'm talking about: http://www.cporter.net/foamstuff/closing1.png. In the example you do start out shield foot forward and you are sword foot forward when you throw your escape shot, but that's just this example. If you wanted to roll left instead you'd end up doing almost the opposite in footwork.

Don't get caught up in having one foot or the other in front for specific actions like throwing shots or closing. Footwork is fluid; a process, not static if/then situations.

[Jorvik the Jarl]

thanks alot rak and others, really helpfull so far.

[Titan G]

to the orginal question on flails. this may or may not be difficult to you and will also depend on what you fight with but , as a majority of my time flail fighter the best bet is to go with what forkbeard said on sword side, just punch the **** outta the rope/head. also if you fight punch and are strong enough or you fight strap core shield then you can even disarm or hurt the **** out of someone by allowing the head to rap and then making a rather pronounced jerking motion. the catchs the momentum of the flail head and holds it in place with pure motion. if someone has a weak grip on their flail this will result in them being disarmed or if they are like me and hold onto that * thing like its a * then you will jack up their elbow and take them off the field and onto the sidelines but either way you will have effectively defeated them with nothing but a block.

[Jorvik the Jarl]

As fun as it is to hurt people Raul tries not to, but yeah i gots a strap sheild and is iffy as to what your exlpaining about the block, punch shields are good, but raul likes big shields, and honestly, Raul sucks appletini with punches,
no dought theyre one of the best shields out there, Raul sux with em.
but yeah i still have a few problems with the flails while Raul has a strap on, if anyone has anymore general advice, speak up.

[Titan G]

i think i understood what you said there, however i did make the adendum its not a capable block for most people but if you can do its an excellent move for combat and at the end of the day they signed a waiver its a full contact game pains happen, the move doesnt cripple but it beats them in the short term, same amount of damage done as a shield bash. i'm not fighting to make sure everyone has a good day, i expect to be bruised and in pain at the end of the day if i've fought right and so should they.

[Aleksii]

Raul has a strap on

[Jorvik the Jarl]

i think i understood what you said there, however i did make the adendum its not a capable block for most people but if you can do its an excellent move for combat and at the end of the day they signed a waiver its a full contact game pains happen, the move doesnt cripple but it beats them in the short term, same amount of damage done as a shield bash. i'm not fighting to make sure everyone has a good day, i expect to be bruised and in pain at the end of the day if i've fought right and so should they.

Yeah exactly, i mean Jorvik has no problem with sheild bashing, its awesome. I just still for the love of Odin cant dodge that flail, ive gotten better, to say the least because of all your exelent tips(ty) now should i just parry the flail with my sword or is that a no no.

[Jorvik the Jarl]

Raul has a strap on

Jorvik set himself up for that one tho.

[Titan G]

if you can parry it go for it. i've yet to see anyone actually capable of doing a real sword parry in this game but if so by all means do it ( i've heard of people who say they can, just saying ive never seen it with my own eyes) generally speaking keep the shield away from your body, have a strong A frame and good sword blocks and a flail is no different than the shield. watch out for moving your defense to soon and watch the fakes, i get 80% of my flails shots to land because of good strong fakes if you don't bite on the fake its much harder to land the shot. my personal brand of flail fighting is dependent on being faster and stronger than you so that my shots get there quicker and on deceiving you so that your defense is out of place when i actually throw the shot, the former is only going to be countered by expierence and atheletism the later can be countered by expierence or learning, slager is a great example of this, he has been around all that long but he comes from a strong realm and he has endeavored to make himself an excellent fighter, another good example of this is dagganoth, go to alot of events, train alot, fight anyone you can. thats how you will honestly learn to fight flails. i don't know what region you are from but if you can make it to major events fight soth, galin,winfang, locutus, elwrath, forkbeard, dopp if you out west, shadow, PtQ, i can't think of his name but the guy that is the head of rogue squadron, dane, and many more i can't think of. fighting those guys will make you a better fighter, i can offer all the advice on these boards i can think of and many can but the end of the day fact is im a middle to high level fighter so is slagar and most others here, the BEST rarely frequent these boards for the most part, THOSE are the guys you want to find at events, they teach you just by the way they apporach fighting.

my best example of this was going to visit winfang a couple of springs ago in ohio. i was visiting some of my g/f's family but i made the trip down to see him in avalon, i honestly didnt hang out that much with him and we only fought for an hour and a half or so. he taught me some cool tricks and tightened up my A frame a bit but above all i got the impression of the mentality that i am going for. more than anything the impression i received from in in a couple of hours of talk and hanging out was enough to have shaped my fighting career. im not sucking fangs nuts but i am trying to say the best thing that you can find is someone who will **** you up night and day, and then talk to you about WHY they **** you up night and day. every chance i can at an event i talk and fight beside fang cause i like his fighting style, i try to learn from it and i do the same from the rest of EBF. they're knowledge is amazing and matches the type of fighter i want to be. find someone who can help bring you along as a fighter and it will maximize your potential more than anything fromt these boards ever could.

and you probably don't live near anyone that is great, thats ok. go to events forge relationships with people, you will find some one, it may lead you to become a kinsman or a knight or a headhunter or a myriad of other things but find that one person that you can call from half way across the country, you can email, you travel to visit not just for events, and it will cement you as a much better fighter than any video ever will imo.

[Titan G]

man i got a little ranty there.

[Jorvik the Jarl]

haha, yeah its cool, cuz i was wondering if i can use a bearded axe to rip the flail out in general, or are bearded axes only for shields and limbs, Jorviks a bit stupid for that.

[Titan G]

again you could, but it you do that to an expierenced fighter i want you to follow the move up with this statement " you should quit fighting, i just disarmed you with an axe, dueche"

[Jorvik the Jarl]

hahaha, just flick salt on the wound eh. thanks alot tho. jorvik is now almost flail proof. the leg swings i got down, since i use a large round shield, its a simple lift of my left leg, and useing the force of my body coming down on my left leg, i would then go for a counter swing(generaly)

[Slagar]

Dude, I really think you'd be best served at this point by going to a really big event, and getting a grasp of what the hell you're talking about. You don't really have the conceptual framework to get much actual help out of these boards (not your fault at all, just an unavoidable side effect of being new). As Graavish said, none of the real A-list post here that much (once in a while, though), and all those of us who do post here can offer is words on a page. I gauruntee that the first mid-level fighter with a flail you meet is going to teach you how flail-proof you are. So go to an event and meet him, and get it out of the way. Until you do, I don't think you're going to get much actual use out of these forums.

[Jorvik the Jarl]

well ive been fightin for two years and been to like 2 big(ish) events, im still kinda new but i get what hes sayin.

[Slagar]

So, just out of curiousity, which events? Anduril is in California, if I'm not mistaken. The only big events I know of in that part of the country are Chaos Wars and Western Wars.

To be fair, the 'size' of an event is only partially determined by the number of people who show up. The caliber of fighters who attend is also very important. I've always said that I'd rather go to an event with 50 big hitters, than one with 200 noobs. There are some big swingers out west, but I have no clue which events they attend, or how often.

I guess the point that I'm making is, with all respect, the questions you ask imply that you haven't had a lot of exposure to national-field-caliber fighting. If you had, you'd already know a lot of this stuff, and wouldn't need to resort to asking the boards. At this point you've gotten some decent advice here, which is good. But it's no substitute whatsoever for going out and picking a fight with your resident flail-users, and getting some field time. So go punch someone from the God Squad in the nose, and come back with what you've learned.

[Michael]

I agree with Slagar. The number one way to improve at foam fighting is to fight. Practice a lot and you will improve. Drills and excercises are awesome for focusing on specific areas but nothing works the overall skill set like fighting. Besides, few if any drills or excercises are quite as much awesome fun. On top of that there is no way to judge yourself except against the best you can find. When you are comfortable beating all of those best, then find some others.

[Jorvik the Jarl]

thats why i come on here tho. i fight almost everyday. and jorvik asks here for tips,(cant learn entirely by mahself.) then i go out and fight.
i know i dont die anywhere as much as i used to but, eh, say what you please. im probly carpoolin to this chaos wars, so ill get a bit more expirience i guess.
i just fight for fun.
and kik * at the same time.

[Dane]

Should be a great pool of fighters with different styles at Chaos for you to jack in the nose and learn from.

[Jorvik the Jarl]

awesome, should be carpoolin there this year

[Dane]

You should carpool there: save on gas.

[No'Vak]

I heard car pooling is good for the environment.

[Beck]

Jorkvik/Raul, why do you talk in third person?

[bo1]

the vinegar. lols

[Jorvik the Jarl]

Jorkvik/Raul, why do you talk in third person?

must jorvik have a reason? honestly jorvik does it for fun, why does it * you off or confuse you?