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 Post subject: Any tips for a short fighter?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2010 10:12 pm 
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I have the grand misfortune of only being 5'5" on an incredibly tall day. Because of this, I end up taking a LOT of hits in the shoulder.

I'm rather new to all this, but does anyone have any tips to keep me from getting my keister handed back to me on a silver platter due to sheer small-ness?


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 Post subject: Re: Any tips for a short fighter?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 8:19 am 
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Being the exact same height as you, and on a field with a few 6+ foot fighters, I'll tell you this. Train. Train hard, often, and with everyone you can. Learn good D, and get a decently sized shield. That's what I have to do.

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 Post subject: Re: Any tips for a short fighter?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 9:07 am 
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You'll learn to roll that shield up over your shoulder when you get in close (which you should be, since you have less range). Learn to throw wraps at their hips. Most tall fighters are giving away one or the other with their shield carriage. Being short, you can light up the hips, and if the shoulder is exposed to compensate, you should be able to tag that, too.

Don't be afraid to chop them down to your size. If you circle to their shield side, you should have a pretty easy time avoiding threatening attacks. Once you're in close, if you keep moving away from their weapon, you generally have the advantage .

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 Post subject: Re: Any tips for a short fighter?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 9:25 am 
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A lot of shorter fighters seem to want to use extra long swords to compensate for shorter reach. Don't. Use a standard-length weapon, and proper footwork.

In our game, being small isn't as huge a disadvantage as it is in actual fighting. Basically, you are a smaller target. Use good footwork to postiion yourself well, like Dane said, and you shouldn't have any problems. If you make it out to events, try to hunt up Sir Meno. He's one of the most effective really short fighters I know of. Good luck, man.

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 Post subject: Re: Any tips for a short fighter?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 9:44 am 
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Second Sir Meno (is that how it's spelled?). Killer.

Also, stand up straight through the spine. Bend at the knees just a bit, but don't hunch. A lot of newer fighters end up hunched forward and it just exposes all kinds of shoulder and back to high shots and top wraps. If your sword shoulder is getting hit, work on your static sword block.

Good luck!


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 Post subject: Re: Any tips for a short fighter?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 10:01 am 
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Seconding what Arrakis said on stance. Keep the body centered over the hips, and use your legs to move yourself around. Once you begin bending at the waist you'll do it tilll someone corrects you.

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 Post subject: Re: Any tips for a short fighter?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 11:22 am 
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You don't need an abnormally large shield either, lachlan is wrong there.

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 Post subject: Re: Any tips for a short fighter?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 11:23 am 
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Freswinn out by me is a short fighter, and he adapts through his stance. First, he takes a low stance, so he's about chest height on most fighters, then he pulls his shield up and out at a slight angle so it covers the shield side shoulder and by putting the bottom at the angle, it blocks a majority of attempted leg shots from your higher angle of attack. He does a TON of hip wraps and darksides, all over the middle of his opponent.

Also, put them off balance by controlling your forward space. If you're throwing shots to their hips and thighs, they'll drop their shield so your friend can pop a shoulder.


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 Post subject: Re: Any tips for a short fighter?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 11:27 am 
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Also what kind of shield do you use?

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Elebrim wrote:
...I question why lately it seems like we must do everything that Amtgard does or else we are no longer the best fighters. I don't think it's right or necessary.


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 Post subject: Re: Any tips for a short fighter?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 3:08 am 
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Did I say he needed an abnormally large shield? No. I said decently sized. As in, more than minimum. I hate huge shields.

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 Post subject: Re: Any tips for a short fighter?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 5:04 am 
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No way he needs a bigger shield than minimum :roll:.

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Elebrim wrote:
...I question why lately it seems like we must do everything that Amtgard does or else we are no longer the best fighters. I don't think it's right or necessary.


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 Post subject: Re: Any tips for a short fighter?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 1:47 pm 
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I'm really thinking that lately that being a short fighter has untold huge advantages if you can play your cards right. If you can learn to really table that shield over your shoulder and get inside so it looks like your literally eating your opponents belly button you should be safe from just about any shot and be able to hip wrap to your hearts content.

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 Post subject: Re: Any tips for a short fighter?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 1:54 pm 
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As a shorter smaller guy, I find that speed and good footwork are the key for shorter fighters. All suggestions so far have been pretty good, tabling your shield a lot isn't so necessary once you've developed good footwork, but keeping it up and not letting the enemy see your shoulder is very important.

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 Post subject: Re: Any tips for a short fighter?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 4:06 pm 
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A lot of fighters tend to think that if they aren't throwing kill shots they aren't fighting well. This is a common misconception. As a shorter fighter you shouldn't hesitate to swing for your opponents extremities. Legs and arms are a good way to quickly put the person you're fighting at a disadvantage that height can never compensate for. If you have a hard time guarding your shoulders, pick off your opponents sword arm before it can become a threat. If you're struggiling with his mobility, take his leggs out from under him.

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 Post subject: Re: Any tips for a short fighter?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 6:33 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Any tips for a short fighter?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 7:27 pm 
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This.

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Elebrim wrote:
...I question why lately it seems like we must do everything that Amtgard does or else we are no longer the best fighters. I don't think it's right or necessary.


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 Post subject: Re: Any tips for a short fighter?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 8:37 pm 
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If you develop good form, your smaller size will become more of an advantage than a liability. Yes, if someone bigger than you is trying to overpower you to force an opening, you'll have to respond differently than someone you know you can outmuscle, but a lot of kills come from an inevitable opening in defenses when up close. Smaller limbs mean smaller unguarded targets. I have no new advice but only encouragement. You'll be one of the hardest guys on the field to take down if you get your D tight.


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 Post subject: Re: Any tips for a short fighter?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 10:42 am 
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As a short fighter, I find it difficult at times to deal with some of the giants of our game, so I can definitely relate. I would definitely look into some of those painter/drywall stilts or perhaps some other kind of leg extension in an effort to make yourself taller and therefore giving you the advantage you've always needed.

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 Post subject: Re: Any tips for a short fighter?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 11:54 am 
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 Post subject: Re: Any tips for a short fighter?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 1:52 pm 
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Lorenzo wrote:
As a short fighter, I find it difficult at times to deal with some of the giants of our game, so I can definitely relate. I would definitely look into some of those painter/drywall stilts or perhaps some other kind of leg extension in an effort to make yourself taller and therefore giving you the advantage you've always needed.

**** off, Mel. 6'5" is not short. I always wonder in these threads how short is defined. 5'5" isnt short to me.


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 Post subject: Re: Any tips for a short fighter?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 5:22 pm 
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Attempt to establish inside dominance against your opponent. This will force your opponent to go outside on you. It sounds like this is already happening. This narrows down the available shots that can be taken on you. Fighting defensively, as has been mentioned, will help a lot, as will limb hunting. And I agree that you should not compensate for lack of reach by using longer equipment: speed and maneuvarability are your natural allies, maximize your advantages. Take my advice with a grain of salt, I'm average height :ninja:


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 Post subject: Re: Any tips for a short fighter?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 29, 2010 12:47 pm 
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I'm a pretty short guy myself around 5'6"

Pretty much everyone has been on the mark.
Here are some tips from me...a small skirmisher.

1. use your natural speed, it helps.
2. Don't be afraid to get wild on someone. Find new angles experiment with how your body moves and where you can sneak a shot in on someone who has height.
3. Don't be afraid to disengage. Is someone going to be a problem, throw a couple of shots, if it doesn't work run away and come back with friends.
4. If you practice keeping your legs safe you will find you will die a lot less. Mobility is our best weapon. Side steps, short hops and feints will add leaps and bounds to maiming other people.
5. LEG THEM AND LEAVE THEM!
6. LEG THEM AND LEAVE THEM!
7. I would put leg them and leave them again but you get the point. As a skirmisher limbs are your kill shots most of the time...that is until you maim your way to the back of the line.
8. Take every opportunity, every gap ever slot. Even if you die its one more step further in the name of practice.

That's all I got. Oh yeah "Stance, balance, protect shoulder, learn to roll your shield out, umm...everything everyone else said.

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 Post subject: Re: Any tips for a short fighter?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 2:07 pm 
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Seriously......
While it is implied with mobility and footwork.

Specifically learn range control. I like the analagy of a traffic light.

Green light- Anything you can hit without taking a step
Yellow light- Anything you can hit by taking one step
Red light- Anything beyond yellow.

Everybody has different zones. Every different length of weapon also changes these zones.

Do not be in your oponents green zone (especially if they are out of your green zone) unless you are specifically working to kill them.

This is where footwork and mobility come into play. use them to get you in and out of range on your terms.

Loptr

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 Post subject: Re: Any tips for a short fighter?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 7:18 pm 
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Dane wrote:
You'll learn to roll that shield up over your shoulder when you get in close (which you should be, since you have less range). Learn to throw wraps at their hips. Most tall fighters are giving away one or the other with their shield carriage. Being short, you can light up the hips, and if the shoulder is exposed to compensate, you should be able to tag that, too.

Don't be afraid to chop them down to your size. If you circle to their shield side, you should have a pretty easy time avoiding threatening attacks. Once you're in close, if you keep moving away from their weapon, you generally have the advantage .



most of the advice is good but dane's is spot on. where your gonna need to really focus is leg hunting and the hip job and * wrap. these will be your bread and butter for killing. what you will REALLY need to concentrate on for defense is your footwork. i'm really big and really strong. so is vokor and numerous other fighter i could name. your shoulders WILL NOT be strong enough to stop our offense shield work. your going to need to counter this with well played footwork. up at the top of the fighting forum are some footwork videos from amtgard (not sure but they may be from the skbc footwork or body mechanics class but don't quote me on that) they helped me personally IMMENSELY in setting up my shot selection and position and they will do this for you too however they will also give you the balanced quick warrior feet you need to survive all but the most fierce of offensive shield work. just remember this one thing, you won't be able to stand up to a running bash so don't try to other than that proper body mechanics and foot work will overcome the height advantage of roughly 85% percent of the fighters in the game. once you get to that point it starts being more about your combat as an art and system and less about physical advantages. i didn't embed them cause i dont know how but these are the videos you will want to look at to really step up your overall body control and foot work.
BODY MECHANICS AND DRILLS
SKBC 2007 Body Mechanics pt.1, pt.2, pt.3, pt.4 (Video)
Triangle Footwork (Video)
Boxing Stance (Video)
Step Drill (Video)
Plyometrics
General Fitness pt.1, pt.2, pt.3, pt.4 (Video)
1-6 Drill
Duke U Sword Drills pt.1, pt.2, pt.3 (Video)
Footwork in Belegarth
Amtgard Workout

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 Post subject: Re: Any tips for a short fighter?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2010 7:40 pm 
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Lol * Im short too and this has been pretty useful

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 Post subject: Re: Any tips for a short fighter?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 9:49 pm 
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As a 5'0'' female I can say being short can sometimes be an advantage. I often S&B and I take a lot of head shots, they don't faze me much (I've had my head knocked around quite a bit- The pain isn't a problem, tho sometimes my temper can be.) and I just keep on fighting, where my opponent thinks I'm dead, and isn't prepared for my next shot.


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 Post subject: Re: Any tips for a short fighter?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 10:37 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Any tips for a short fighter?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 19, 2011 10:46 am 
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Being 5'6" I just want to add on. What everyone said is correct and will help you immensely.
First it's not quite a disadvantage. We can usually move just as fast as a larger opponent. If they close you can retreat at roughly the same speed and vice versa. They will have reach on you, but one they throw a shot you can get inside and **** their world up. Big people means big surface area to hit. So being little we naturally have less attack zones, and with a tight defense you'll make tall fighters frustrated.
Their legs are right by your sword arm, chop them off. Once their literally your size all you have to do is get inside their guard. Bait them to attack whatever way in comfy for you, block and then press in for the kill. This is also true about arms. The tall guy will probably use a longer weapon then you in addition to his reach advantage. Wait for a shot and chop his arm off. Block/riposte is a key element in doing this, and being a short fighter in general.
As everyone else stated, work those hips/butt. Use lots of wraps and stabs. Once they learn you can wrap low, throw a stab into their gut after faking a wrap. They will eventually learn your tricks and drop their shield to block. When they do throw a high wrap or a pocket stab.
When big strong dudes charge you, just side step around them and throw a couple wraps. No need to brace for it then fall on your *. It hurts. This is a small part of footwork.
You will be hit in the head. A lot. Especially by fighters your size. Learn better defense to prevent this. Don't get mad unless they're a * and it happens more then two or three times.
Don't be afraid to be aggressive either. If you get aggro like a spider monkey and freak a tall fighter out, you've beat him mentally and have already won the fight. Being timid results in being killed. You'll never learn to grind close and get inside their guard if you're not aggressive. Don't be afraid to use your shield either. **** their world up.
Lastly find dudes your size and ask them lots of questions. Peanut is a good starting point. Dude knows his ****.

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 Post subject: Re: Any tips for a short fighter?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2011 8:18 am 
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Coming back a little late to the party, but....

What most short fighters complain about is range. They get easily out ranged by other taller fighters. as a short fighter you must learn to control range aggressively. This doesn't always mean get into their grill, though it can. It means take initiative in playing the range game and hold it.

For this I'd recommend Kenny's blog on range. Know the concepts, and utilize them like mad.

To get into range as a short fighter you must close the distance. There are many ways. I like to bait people so they throw a particular shot (especially this 6'5" dude) which I then counter or block and then I'm inside my range. For learning how to close, Brennon has great article here: http://geddon.org/index.php/Fighting_ar ... Brennon_EH

and great videos here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFMQBVgk ... ature=plcp

Sweet, you're in their range, now what? Most likely you have the advantage. You know those big old orangutang arms that were giving you trouble? Theyre much slower in close, and you've most likely cut off all angles except a wrap, which are slower and therefore easier to defend. So throw a shot and be happy.

Didn't work? Now the dance begins. The person who you closed on is going to attempt to increase distance again through one of two ways: stepping outward in some direction or stepping towards you. Either or theyre going to attempt to hit you.

First method, stepping away. By far the most common method. The simplest way is they'll step straight away from you. Dont let them! Keep on them like white on rice. You dont want to have to close again. Theyll most likely throw either a wrap or a safe shot like a short cross. Deal with it and continue keeping your range close. They cant move faster backward than you forward. It also puts all their momentum and balance on their heels. Which isnt the best. They might try to transition into the second method.

The more advanced method is that they'll use angles to create distance. A circle step or sidestep will increase range and give them greater shot variety while cutting off yours. You're going to have to use angles to counter it. For this I'd recommend reading up on Kenny's blog again about angles.

The second method, they'll come at you. Whether on the initial closing or after a bit of footwork it's the same. They'll either try the simple way of throwing a wrap and hoping their shield keeps them covered, or they'll use the shield offensively. Once again angels is the easiest way of dealing with it. A sidestep or circle step can keep you out of the way of a sword or shield and open up a number of options for you. Another way of dealing with it is youre own offensive shield work. Nobody expects a smaller person to get aggressive with a shield. Granted this has to be timed right like all offensive shield work. One of the best offensive shield men I know is 5'7 and 160. Nothing feels better like knocking a big man on their *.

Also, though I preach staying in range, if someone gets the upper hand and its not going good, disengage. No shame in starting the game over instead of losing.

Anyway, a few points to sum it up: use good footwork to compensate for short wingspan, use angles to stay inside range, use mobility and speed to bring yourself to and from the target without giving them the chance to control the fight, and control the fight.


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 Post subject: Re: Any tips for a short fighter?
PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 11:27 pm 
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Location: Carbondale, IL
Started Fighting: 22 Aug 2010
Realm: Byzantium
Favorite Fighting Styles: Single
**** love this thread guys. Peanut I'll have to snag you and fight for a while at WPO or something, been working on my short fu but don't really have anyone around to teach me. 5'3 and female aren't really the disadvantages people would make them out to be, but it has taken me a minute to really get down exactly what I need to do.

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 Post subject: Re: Any tips for a short fighter?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2011 10:33 pm 
Mercenary
Mercenary

Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2007 3:01 pm
Posts: 630
Started Fighting: 0- 2-2007
Realm: Loderia
Unit: Clan of the Hydra
Favorite Fighting Styles: Sword and board
Silly Dah Goblin wrote:
**** love this thread guys. Peanut I'll have to snag you and fight for a while at WPO or something, been working on my short fu but don't really have anyone around to teach me. 5'3 and female aren't really the disadvantages people would make them out to be, but it has taken me a minute to really get down exactly what I need to do.


Just fight ducky and post it to Byzantium facebook. Ill watch it and you can get help from others too.


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 Post subject: Re: Any tips for a short fighter?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 12:05 am 
Recruit
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Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2011 9:25 pm
Posts: 30
Location: Carbondale, IL
Started Fighting: 22 Aug 2010
Realm: Byzantium
Favorite Fighting Styles: Single
Cool, will do sometime after break. Thanks Peanut!

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 Post subject: Re: Any tips for a short fighter?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 25, 2011 7:58 pm 
Warning: Knows Math
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Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2007 3:24 pm
Posts: 4792
Location: near Newark, NJ
Started Fighting: 17 Jun 2007
Realm: Goldenvale+East Kingdom
Unit: Omega Company
Favorite Fighting Styles: No gimmicks.
Peanut of Loderia wrote:
Wisdom, wisely imparted

Also, though I preach staying in range, if someone gets the upper hand and its not going good, disengage. No shame in starting the game over instead of losing.

Anyway, a few points to sum it up: use good footwork to compensate for short wingspan, use angles to stay inside range, use mobility and speed to bring yourself to and from the target without giving them the chance to control the fight, and control the fight.


Well said, Peanut. Good advice for anyone, in fact.


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