The fundamentals

[Kyrian]

What would you consider the fundamentals of fighting, regardless of style?

I believe they are (in no particular order):

1) Body awareness (kinesthetic sense)
2) Stances
3) Grips
4) Attacks (chops, wraps, stabs, etc.)
5) Defense (blocks, parries, ripostes, etc.)
6) Footwork
7) Power generation
8 ) Attitude & mentality

[Sir Anastasia]

Attitude

How you project yourself on the field is important, and it is something you can learn. It is also something that comes from within, and I think it can be a reflection of your honor, philosophy of fighting, and drive.

[Dangus]

Attitude

How you project yourself on the field is important, and it is something you can learn. It is also something that comes from within, and I think it can be a reflection of your honor, philosophy of fighting, and drive.

Are you saying these two things aren't mutually exclusive? Because I'll tell you that 99% of the time I have a very positive attitude on the field. My projected attitude is pretty much the opposite of that, I **** love slaying *.

[Solusar]

The mental aspect is a very important one.
Good thread Kyrian, I want to get into teaching and this will help immensely.

[Brooder]

Please explain to me why you listed grips as number three.

[No'Vak]

What would you consider the fundamentals of fighting, regardless of style?

I believe they are (in no particular order):

1) Body awareness (kinesthetic sense)
2) Stances
3) Grips
4) Attacks (chops, wraps, stabs, etc.)
5) Defense (blocks, parries, ripostes, etc.)
6) Footwork
7) Power generation

[Kyrian]

Please explain to me why you listed grips as number three.

Because of the variety of grips that are out there: Rogue, saber, fist, pommel, etc. Each fulfills a different purpose and opens up different techniques. Even though I don't do it, I've seen people who will change their grips over the course of a battle depending on the circumstances.

[Sir Anastasia]

Attitude

How you project yourself on the field is important, and it is something you can learn. It is also something that comes from within, and I think it can be a reflection of your honor, philosophy of fighting, and drive.

Are you saying these two things aren't mutually exclusive? Because I'll tell you that 99% of the time I have a very positive attitude on the field. My projected attitude is pretty much the opposite of that, I **** love slaying *.

I can't really describe the thing I do, but I would say it is not mutually exclusive. I try to project a tough attitude that keeps people off, and I don't know if my love for the game or my personal quest for having good honor shows through at that time. However, I think I do feel it from other people, both things: intensity and aggression and ultimately behind that, their philosophy.

Hey, it can all be in my head, but if there is one kooky-spiritual thing that I believe in, I think this is there.

[Kyrian]

I added "attitude and mentality" to the list.

[Dane]

1) Body awareness (kinesthetic sense)
2) Stances
3) Grips
4) Attacks (chops, wraps, stabs, etc.)
5) Defense (blocks, parries, ripostes, etc.)
6) Footwork
7) Power generation
8 ) Attitude & mentality

I wouldn't include attitude, as it's not something that can be taught as a fundamental skill. It's more intangible than that.

My own list would look like:

1. Stance, Posture, and Foot Spacing
2. Basic Shots
3. Basic Guards
4. Shot Mechanics/Power Generation
5. Footwork
6. Grips

[Frosty]

(dane) I disagree. Attitude goes a long way when fighting red. I'd even go as far as saying its one of the most important skillz fighting a with a red.

This topic is about fundamentals so if we are really going to list the top 8(?) fundamentals it should really be broken down into Sword and Board, Florintine, Short Red < 72", > 72" Long Red and Spear. My 2 cents

[Soo Ma Tai]

Meh, combat concepts are the same with out regard to the weapon. So splitting into S&B or red is self defeating, as you end up teaching the same stuff over and over again with very little changes. Angles of attack and defense don't change because of the weapon you use. Also, Attitude can be taught imo, and is generally a projection of the persons confidence in their skills. It's somewhat intangible yes, but i think it can still be taught. One of the greatest bluffs in combat is to look like you know what you are doing, even if you don't.

[Dane]

(dane) I disagree. Attitude goes a long way when fighting red. I'd even go as far as saying its one of the most important skillz fighting a with a red.

There are a lot of subtle things that go a long way in fighting, but that doesn't qualify them as fundamentals.

I wouldn't include attitude, as it's not something that can be taught as a fundamental skill.

When a coach talks about fundamentals, he or she is talking about footwork, form, and bread-and-butter technique.

[Soo Ma Tai]

I respectfully disagree Dane. When learning Wushu, projection of attitude is one of the first things learned. It can be a fundamental, if it is taught that way.

[Dane]

If you disagree disrespectfully, the boards are a much better read.

[Soo Ma Tai]

*, I knew I wasn't doing it right.

[Arrakis]

I disrespectfully agree with Dane.



Also, I would add footwork to the list another two or three time, personally. That **** is so foundational to me not ultrasucking any given day.

[bo1]

If you disagree disrespectfully, the boards are a much better read.
Dane

sig'ed

[Torry]

I would say one fundamental we often forget is range. Understanding not only your range, but your opponent's, makes a huge difference. Footwork doesn't matter if you aren't sure whether you want to be closer or farther away.

[Soo Ma Tai]

I agree to a point, range is certainly important, and knowing your opponents range is critical to being a well rounded fighter. However I don't think it's something that can really be taught, but instead must be learned through trial and error. I am sure that you could put it in some sort of mathematical equation to formulate how far exactly to stand from an opponent, but there are so many factors involved it would be pointless.

To me, the range game ins't so much a fundamental, as it is a finer point of combat.

[Torry]

Range is certainly something that can be taught, but it takes a while to master. Sir Kenneth actually has a fantastic write up on ranges.

I guess it depends on what we are calling fundamentals. Kyrian, are we talking fundamentals for new fighters to learn, or skills all fighters should have?

[Kyrian]

I guess it depends on what we are calling fundamentals. Kyrian, are we talking fundamentals for new fighters to learn, or skills all fighters should have?

My purpose in this is to develop a consistent curriculum for training new fighters but I believe all fighters should be familiar with the concepts.

[Soo Ma Tai]

If I were training a new person, and trying to get them up to the medium fighter level. I would teach them these things, in this order.

1. Body awareness and Stance.
2. Movement, i.e. how to step through, drag step, move up the circle, etc.
3. Weapon Grips and Guards & Wards.
4. Defense, pure defense, not ripostes, just blocks and parries.
5. Attacks, angles of attack, and attack types (hack, wrap, stab, bounce, etc.)
6. Body Mechanics for power generation and accuracy.
7. Combos, how to put them together, Weapon and shield checking, range control, ripostes, generally the finer points of combat.
8. Field Prescence (attitude, mentality, etc....the head game)

[Phlebas]

The finer points of range take awhile but it's very useful to have a basic framework to do/talk about drills. mine go like this:

Infighting: could touch the other person with your had
short/extension: can hit the body by extending the arm with the weapon without stepping or leaning.
medium: can hit the body with a step or lunge, may be able to hit the arm with an extension.
large: may be able to hit the arm with a step or lunge
very large/out of distance: do not need to maintain a guard position

The difference between short and medium distance is the most critical, both tactically and to be able to lay out drills. i.e. "From medium distance, A attacks with a step forward, B parries and ripostes." Left on their own, beginners will reliably attack with a step while in extension distance, which immediately causes at least three problems.

[Dabbanoth]

Phlebas is a range guru.


My fundamentals for fighting:

1 body positioning
2 angles, angles, angles (attack, defense, and movement)
3 power generation
4 range control and dictation of pace
5 repitition. Make your swings natural and automatic
6 DON'T BE SCARED OF THE FOAM.

[Durzo]

I think that everyone is saying similar looking things while utilizing different language to do it.

Kyrian's List

1) Body awareness (kinesthetic sense)
This covers "Range" as it has been discussed. The weapon, shield, buckler, garb, all is an extension of the fighter. Not in a zen way, but I suppose it could be, but in a practical way. We ignore this as a fundamental because muscle memory has taught us we do not need to consciously consider where are shield goes when we throw a shot. We don't need to think on hand and off hand, where each goes. It is just in its right place. In order to progress as fighters, everyone needs to have a sense of where they and their gear is in relation to their opponent. The only way I can think of this being taught is through drill and practice.
2) Stances
And correct me if others think of this differently, where we put our feet, where we leave our hands. Where the start position is of shield and sword. Everyone does this differently. Everyone has a different center of gravity. In the end, this comes down to comfort, practicality, and balance, in my opinion. Can I stand a few minutes in this position comfortably? Can I throw all the shots I like from this position? Am I balanced? Balance leads to good shot control.
3) Grips
I think that this isn't as much a fundamental as a finer point. As long as they have a good grip without strangling the weapon, and have their fingers placed so they are less likely to break one, meh... Choked up, pommel, saber etc... All of these are thinks we do so that we can best throw our shots. Easier to wrap, for me, at the pommel then choked up. I have a better time blocking choked up than at the pommel.
4) Attacks (chops, wraps, stabs, etc.)
5) Defense (blocks, parries, ripostes, etc.)
6) Footwork
This is huge. Being able to move in a way that promotes balance, control means controlled shots, fewer head shots, and comfort. Whoever has the better footing and lower center of gravity wins when getting bowled over. I try to teach this as much as I can. Anyone who has done martial arts, self defense, etc... knows the importance of how to move. When you are on your heels you are reactive and only prolonging the inevitable against a competent adversary. This covers angles and positioning. The 45 degree approach to a larger opponent so their momentum is divided? Soo Ma Tai, how many vets do you know who don't consciously think about the drag step but do it anyway because that is the best way to maintain control and balance? I know a guy who hadn't heard the concept, but he was doing it every fight. Why? He has been doing this a minute...
7) Power generation
Body mechanics, yes? And also, not that I have a problem with this at all, power control? Absolutely. How to get a solid hit and not break someone in half, totally fundamental... And one that I constantly need to renew.
8 ) Attitude & mentality
This is absolutely a fundamental. So many people stagger and pause because they need to stop, think. Or they get nervous because they fight someone better. Or they are not confident in the abilities that they know they have so they need to fool themselves into thinking that they need to do something that they don't need to do. This can be taught just by talking it through. After that, it comes through practice. Even just getting the point across that you fight like they are trying to kill you. Fight to live. This goes along with, don't be afraid of getting hit, you aren't made of glass. No one is unkillable. I would just rather fight some people when they are sleeping.

If there was an order that made sense to me...

1. Stance
2. Attack
Focus on shot placement.
3. Defend
Focus on blocking.
4. Footwork
5. Power generation, body mechanics
6. Body Awareness
7. Grips
8. Attitude (Really this should be sprinkled into each segment. The attitude on the attack. The attitude on defense. Never turn your back. Don't run you'll die tired...Also this would punctuate lecture with practice and drill and keep people's attention.)

Whew... That was a lot of words...
I am going to go lie down for a bit...

If we are going to keep talking about this we need to talk about whether or not these are the fundamentals a fighting needs to hold there own and how best to teach it. Not just the semantics of the language.

[Torry]

After re-reading some of this, I noticed we didn't really say much about shield work. Soo Ma Tai mentioned it a little bit.

One of the hurdles I see newer fighters struggling with is getting around a defensive opponent's shield, especially true of tower shields. This usually results in the newer fighters resorting to sloppy high crosses and goofy leg sweeps. While those can be refined upon, it can be very advantageous to teach them simple shield work with the rip->cross, punch->wrap, or bash->leg chop.

In line with Durzo's post, this could easily be considered part of attacking.

Using aggresive shield work on the defense is a little more difficult to call a fundamental, since newer fighters should be focused more on good defensive posture and blocking/footwork.