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 Post subject: The 12 Shots....
PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 12:28 am 
Underling
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So I have been doing this a minute and I know that there is always room to learn. So whenever someone teaches a clinic, I try to be there to both support them, and also to see what all I can learn off it. Plus, drills are for the win, and I am a good stand in for a pell.

A lot of people use the 12 shots. The 6 round the clock, 3 wraps, 3 stabs, and a partridge in a pair tree. What I am curious about, has anyone not been able to communicate control and shot placement with this method? Is this the best way to teach how to fight? Pros? Cons? Success? Failures?
Is this really just an effective way to discuss, at a distance, different shots and combos?

What do you think?


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 Post subject: Re: The 12 Shots....
PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 12:30 am 
Berserker
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Sounds pretty similar to what Kyrian taught at CW. I enjoyed it. Helps teach the new guys the basics.

Edit: As for successes, I've taught a few of our newer members along these lines on how to properly throw a shot but I leave it to them to find what combos work best for them and how those shots are applicable in an actual fight. I think its a good place to start.

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 Post subject: Re: The 12 Shots....
PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 8:24 am 
Skull Crusher
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I like the idea of twelve shots described thus -- but which hours of the clock do you use? 12:00 is usually illegal, and 6:00 is for jerks.

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 Post subject: Re: The 12 Shots....
PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 9:16 am 
Warning: Knows Math
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I like the basic ten taught by Sirs Peter and Spyn: http://www.swordknight.com/2010/notes/B ... 202010.pdf


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 Post subject: Re: The 12 Shots....
PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 10:51 am 
Warrior
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For those playing at home, the "Flat High Cross" in the .pdf is what we've been calling the short cross to better separate it from the elbow-in-the-air, please-please-punch-me-in-the-armpit high cross.

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 Post subject: Re: The 12 Shots....
PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 1:54 pm 
Mercenary
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For good pell work I tend to separate out the shots from the targeting area. I use the six targets: same side shoulder, same side ribs, same side hip, far shoulder, far ribs, far hip. I then target those with each of the 4 different shots: hack, snap, wrap and stab. I also do both hands. I then do the one through six drill that a lot of SCA guys favor. It's alright and teaches you to respond quickly but some of it will get you an elbow to the ribs.

These are my recommended videos (series):

Duke Gaston talking about shot mechanics
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDCdHvaPtZc

Duke Uther and the 1-6 drill
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ee_iLBao2bw

Oh, and Brennon's ****. All of it.
http://www.youtube.com/user/BrennonEH


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 Post subject: Re: The 12 Shots....
PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 2:00 pm 
Hero
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All those are legit videos Peanut. Thanks man.

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 Post subject: Re: The 12 Shots....
PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 2:46 pm 
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Peanut of Loderia wrote:
For good pell work I tend to separate out the shots from the targeting area. I use the six targets: same side shoulder, same side ribs, same side hip, far shoulder, far ribs, far hip. I then target those with each of the 4 different shots: hack, snap, wrap and stab. I also do both hands.


This is basically what I teach. There are 6 gates or strike zones, split to the left and right sides, the upper, middle, and lower gates. Then I explain the methods of throwing those shots. I add one more, and I think I call one something different. I use Hack, whip (snap), wrap, stab, and bounce (using reciprocal force from blocked strikes to initiate a direction change and strike again)

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 Post subject: Re: The 12 Shots....
PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 9:55 am 
Mercenary
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Soo Ma Tai wrote:

This is basically what I teach. There are 6 gates or strike zones, split to the left and right sides, the upper, middle, and lower gates. Then I explain the methods of throwing those shots. I add one more, and I think I call one something different. I use Hack, whip (snap), wrap, stab, and bounce (using reciprocal force from blocked strikes to initiate a direction change and strike again)


At first I was going to say I'd put that into a combination category since you are using the bounce to go into another shot. Then thinking about it sounds like a torq. It's the shot they use to throw the moulinet in SCA. I dont usually categorize into bel fighting since most torqs are head shots or very very close shoulder shots.


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 Post subject: Re: The 12 Shots....
PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 11:46 am 
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I have heard that before, the Molinet part anyhow. I actually use it in many shots and combos. For example...single blue v. single blue, I swing to your non-sword side, you push across to block, I immediately turn my weapon in pace around your sword and strike the opposite side. Or swing to the shield leg, and as that is blocked rortate into a flat cross. It's very hard to explain OL, I think I am going to do some vids that explain the concepts and stuff I am talking about.

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 Post subject: Re: The 12 Shots....
PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 4:11 pm 
Mercenary
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It sounds a lot like something that would come from the 1-6 drill. The reason I wouldn't (personally) put it under types of shots is because of the previously stated reasons of the change of direction (using the bounce or, more difficultly, without hitting anything) from one type of shot into another.

Also shots are (generally) not perfect ratios. A snap isnt always a perfect snap; it is sometimes 70% snap and 30% hack or whatever is needed.


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 Post subject: Re: The 12 Shots....
PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 4:53 pm 
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Right, I got cha. What I am referring to in each of my shot types is how the shot is thrown. A whiping shot is generally relaxed, it's power comes from speed. A hack is stiffer, and the power comes more from strength. A stabs force comes from body mechanics and angle of incident, and wraps get their power from the whip and rotational force. The bounce shot also gets it's power from rotational force, not speed or strength, but is not a wrap, which is why I consider it a different type of shot.

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 Post subject: Re: The 12 Shots....
PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 11:39 pm 
Mercenary
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I see. Yeah, I'd classify more towards a torq.


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 Post subject: Re: The 12 Shots....
PostPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 10:26 am 
Underling
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This is all good stuff. Thanks for all the well thought out replies.


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 Post subject: Re: The 12 Shots....
PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 6:41 am 
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In the link below it talks about a bunch of different shots, but only by name, and I'm not down with the lingo, can anyone tell me what these sots are?

http://www.swordknight.com/2010/notes/B ... 202010.pdf

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 Post subject: Re: The 12 Shots....
PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 9:17 am 
Slayer
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This is the syllabus for the class that the Rogues teach at many events. I'll be teaching a class at Geddon covering this material and more for anyone who's interested.

The basic five flat wraps are the only ones not described, so I'll assume you mean those.

A flat wrap is thrown from 'flat grip', which is a shifting of Rogue grip so that the flat of the weapon is facing the opponent. From there, you use good body mechanics to generate force while pronating your wrist for a flat wrap, or supinating your wrist for a reverse wrap. The difference between scoop, flat, and high wraps is simply the angle of your shoulders relative to the ground while throwing. To throw a scoop wrap, you keep your back straight, angle at your waist to point your sword-side shoulder towards the ground to achieve the right angle, and throw a normal flat wrap. To throw a reverse scoop wrap you angle your waist/shoulders the other way, and throw a normal reverse wrap.

Hope this helps!

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 Post subject: Re: The 12 Shots....
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 1:44 pm 
Grunt
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Wraps Video


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 Post subject: Re: The 12 Shots....
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 3:15 pm 
Slayer
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 Post subject: Re: The 12 Shots....
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 3:25 pm 
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