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 Post subject: Single blue just inferior?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2011 5:34 pm 
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Favorite Fighting Styles: Single blue, until December
So I like to fight single blue. Occasionally Florentine, occasionally red, occasionally S&B. I *really* like single blue though. I feel most comfortable with it. I like it to be my go-to style. I often find, however, that I'm just outclassed by any shieldsman, even brand new fighters. It's not that I can't kill them, but I do often find myself falling to fighters I should be able to beat.

Granted, I've only been at this for 9 months, but I feel my skill is pretty on-par with my time in the sport. I know I have a few advantages over S&B; increased maneuverability, more shots available to me, ability to switch weapon hand quickly (ambidexterity ftw), but will I always be outmatched by a big chunk of wood and foam between myself and the enemy?

What's a good way to learn fighting against shieldsmen? Any help is appreciated. Cheers.

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 Post subject: Re: Single blue just inferior?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2011 5:46 pm 
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Pick up a shield long enough to realize it's not a chunk of wood with foam on it. Then go back to blue. You've been fighting 9 months and it's great that you like single blue, but you haven't had enough time to really see what you can do with a shield, single blue or anything. You should just have all your basics down by now. Make it to Chaos next year and as many events as you can and just keep fighting and having fun.

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 Post subject: Re: Single blue just inferior?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2011 8:41 pm 
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Ignatius wrote:
Pick up a shield long enough to realize it's not a chunk of wood with foam on it.


A shield is a weapon that does no damage. It's not something to just sit there and look pretty. Bash people with it, block attacks with it, shield punch people with it, lock up their shoulder with it so they can't swing with that arm, etc. It's a lot of different things. As long as you are just thinking of it as a chunk of wood with foam on it, you're going to be out-classed by it.

Single blue is nice, but adding something to your other hand will put you on par with many other people on the field.
Another blue sword = twice the opportunities to do damage to your opponent.
A shield = way to block shots as well as an offensive tool when in the right hands (and also an arrow blocker)
Replace the single blue w/ a red (min or glaive either one) = power over armor and shields.
Replace the single blue w/ a spear = way to move shields out of the way while being safe behind your line
Grab a jav and use it as a short spear and also to throw at people that are not paying attention

Looking at it your way - archery is just a shaft and a flexible piece of wood/fiberglass.

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 Post subject: Re: Single blue just inferior?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2011 11:53 pm 
Mercenary
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Single blue is a *. Really. However single blue is in my opinion (and others, though not all) a really good, if not the best, way to fight. The problem is the learning curve. You can beat others single blue. It just they have an equipment advantage you dont. So that leaves you two choices:

A)Pick up different equipment. With your grounding in SB you'll be schooling people in no time. You'll have learned footwork, feints, dodging; all the jazz most people compensate with equipment for.

B)Tough it out. Keep fighting those guys that beat you. In the end there's nobody you're racing against but yourself. Get good, great at footwork, feints, range control, dodging, timing, all the **** that makes effective fighters effective. Then when you want to pick up different equipment you can.


The deadliest fighters on the field are those who when losing an arm or shield can still kill a good shieldman or two.


I dont know if you've looked at the fighter resource page or not, but here are some links I'd recommend:

http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p ... 9D918945C8

viewtopic.php?f=135&t=28808

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 4gLp2I3nCQ

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 2516&hl=en

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 3641&hl=en

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBE7l0ylN60

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFMQBVgks2k

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WpdjRN_sQ24&feature=user

viewtopic.php?f=135&t=24557


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 Post subject: Re: Single blue just inferior?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2011 7:39 am 
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Forcing yourself to really work at single blue will teach you fighting fundamentals in a way no other style will. Sword-blocking, footwork, shot selection, body mechanics, all of it. You need to have it all down to be a credible threat single blue. If you ever go to any big eastern event, and look at who's just walking through the field and owning folks, it's the guys who've spent lots of hours grinding away on single sword. Stick with it, learn it right from day one, and you'll be a monster someday.

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 Post subject: Re: Single blue just inferior?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2011 5:00 pm 
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To answer your question, hand matching is the way to beat a sword and board person. If you're really ambidextrous (as you claim in the original post) you should be able to go lefty against a right handed shield man. the shield can't do damage to you, so ignore it. post a good mid height guard and bait your opponent into a swing that you can easily block and riposte, such as your upper arm. when they go to swing at it, block their sword, then hit them in their arm/shoulder. hit them again to follow up immediately, and you win. Be sure to use your guard to make them swing outside on you, and then go inside on them.

Other than that, just go for really safe shots. don't leg anyone unless its an easy, safe shot. get good with your off hand wrap shot, and use that as well. swinging just for their arm (arm hunting) can work as well, but it becomes predictable. bait them into moving their shield really far out of position, and popping their shield side shoulder.

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 Post subject: Re: Single blue just inferior?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2011 6:00 pm 
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i have a blue sword and my friends have red i only use one blue as well and i prefer it because if YOU get close to the enemy with a red they cant touch you so blues arent inferior. but i guess they may be on a actual field but i have never fought in one....

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 Post subject: Re: Single blue just inferior?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2011 6:26 pm 
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I have seen the really great fighters with one sword easily take down quite a few people. If single blue is the style you want to fight, keep practicing don't get discouraged.

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 Post subject: Re: Single blue just inferior?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 9:03 pm 
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Second Cyric, Jay, and Slagar.

Remember:

You can grab their shield and turn their * around.
You can push their shield with your hand.
You can shoulder check their shield.
You can punch their shield (just don't miss).
You can sword-block their shot and grab their weapon-arm wrist.

In addition to all of that physicality that a lot of boardmen just aren't ready for, you can, as has been said, hand-match to cut off most shots from a boardman. That forces them to die or close and, when they close, you can manipulate their shield and use your superior grasp of footwork to work around their shield (they can't; it's attached to them).


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 Post subject: Re: Single blue just inferior?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 9:44 pm 
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Arrakis wrote:
Remember:
You can grab their shield and turn their * around.
You can push their shield with your hand.
You can shoulder check their shield.
You can punch their shield (just don't miss).
You can sword-block their shot and grab their weapon-arm wrist.



Pretty sure you can't punch a shield.

Also these don't work.

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 Post subject: Re: Single blue just inferior?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 9:56 pm 
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Todo wrote:
Arrakis wrote:
Remember:
You can grab their shield and turn their * around.
You can push their shield with your hand.
You can shoulder check their shield.
You can punch their shield (just don't miss).
You can sword-block their shot and grab their weapon-arm wrist.



Pretty sure you can't punch a shield.

Also these don't work.



Get the **** out of here, Tardo. Adults are talking.


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 Post subject: Re: Single blue just inferior?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 9:58 pm 
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Arrakis wrote:
Todo wrote:
Arrakis wrote:
Remember:
You can grab their shield and turn their * around.
You can push their shield with your hand.
You can shoulder check their shield.
You can punch their shield (just don't miss).
You can sword-block their shot and grab their weapon-arm wrist.



Pretty sure you can't punch a shield.

Also these don't work.



Get the **** out of here, Tardo. Adults are talking.


Really though, if you can do any of that **** to a shield man they suck **** hard. Try that on anyone with any aggression and your * is going to get pounded.

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 Post subject: Re: Single blue just inferior?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 10:06 pm 
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Ignatius wrote:
Arrakis wrote:
Remember:
You can grab their shield and turn their * around.
You can push their shield with your hand.
You can shoulder check their shield.
You can punch their shield (just don't miss).
You can sword-block their shot and grab their weapon-arm wrist.


Really though, if you can do any of that **** to a shield man they suck **** hard. Try that on anyone with any aggression and your * is going to get pounded.


Sure man. Whatever you say.


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 Post subject: Re: Single blue just inferior?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 10:10 pm 
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Have to go 50/50 on this one. Arrakis tells truth, to can hand match a shield man and then manipulate their shield. Part of it is that most shieldmen dont expect it. But a shieldman thats has had it happen a few times will be ready.


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 Post subject: Re: Single blue just inferior?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 10:13 pm 
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Sure, it's physically possible. And it may work the first time if they're not expecting anything. But it's just not going to be a solid tactic against a decent fighter.

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 Post subject: Re: Single blue just inferior?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 10:57 pm 
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Do you fight in Kung Fu Movie realm where people just stand there and take your ****, or what? I am 100% certain that you cannot grab the edge of my shield and 'spin me around'. I'm not normally one to keyboard cowboy over here, but **** me, that is dumb.

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 Post subject: Re: Single blue just inferior?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2011 6:45 am 
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I mean, I've absolutely grabbed shields and hauled them into the way of the folks holding them. And I've done it to some of the best in Eastern Bel on occasion. Hand-matched single blue fought in close range means that they can't cross without trading your arm for their body, and that leaves your off hand free to grab their shield and feed it to them. It takes their footwork to go off for a minute, or they misjudge range, or some other similar mistake. Everyone will make that mistake eventually. It's not an opportunity you'll get every round, but there's a reason I wear heavy padded gloves on my off hand too.

Also, re: punching shields - if we allow shield kicks, why in the hell would punching a shield be illegal? Come on, man. Unarmed strikes to shields are 100% legal, regardless of appendage used.

Finally - Arrakis, this isn't GM. Chill, dude. You're **** in my sandbox.

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 Post subject: Re: Single blue just inferior?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2011 11:21 am 
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3.5.4. Shield Bashing, Checking, and Kicking is allowed.

Because it doesn't say punching, would be my best guess. It also seems a lot more liable to miss and a lot less telegraphed than a kick, giving a shieldman much more opportunity to accidentally move the shield out of the way and get socked in the jaw.

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 Post subject: Re: Single blue just inferior?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2011 2:36 pm 
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Try to manipulate my shield and you're getting edged with it...hard. That or just flat out bashed. If you torque your arm because of me moving the shield, you're going to get laughed at.

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 Post subject: Re: Single blue just inferior?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2011 3:23 pm 
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Look at all the posturing.

You aren't invulnerable. You aren't perfect. If you're hitting me with your shield, I have the opportunity to hit you with my sword. If you are blocking my sword with your shield, I can manipulate your shield.


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 Post subject: Re: Single blue just inferior?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2011 3:30 pm 
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Look, lets back away from all the I can do this I can do that BS. It's really not productive and we all know our e-peens are freaking huge, we don't need to prove **** to anybody.

To the OP, practice lots with lots of different styles. If you like single blue, keep at it and be patient. Try everything and don't discount any ideas. Don't get stuck in one way of thinking and most of all have fun. If you get sick of dieing and can't stand it, do something else that seems fun. Fight with anybody who you feel is better than you and try to figure out what they're doing.

Feel free to ask more questions on specifics or styles and we'll try to get our **** together enough to give you some kind of answer.

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 Post subject: Re: Single blue just inferior?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2011 6:03 pm 
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Arrakis wrote:
Look at all the posturing.

You aren't invulnerable. You aren't perfect. If you're hitting me with your shield, I have the opportunity to hit you with my sword. If you are blocking my sword with your shield, I can manipulate your shield.


Unless I'm blocking your sword with my sword. You better be good at lefty fighting or that's what's going to be happening.

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 Post subject: Re: Single blue just inferior?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2011 6:38 pm 
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I agree with everything Slagar said.

I'm not as veteran a fighter as some, but I've fought single blue enough to agree with the original poster that it's a lot of fun, if a bit of a challenge. You should absolutely use your empty hand for grappling.

I prefer to fight without a shield when I can help it. If you're in a situation where you need to square off as a line against another line, and you intend to be standing in the front, then yes, you'll do well to have a shield. But I like to use single blue for almost every other situation. Use your enemy's teammates for cover against their archers. You don't need a shield to fight a sword & board fighter one-on-one. No, the shield isn't a useless lump of wood, but neither is your hand. Stuffing the weapon and grabbing the non-striking surface is more effective than you might think. Even if they know you're likely to try it. It's not just a surprise tactic. Just like you can fake your shots, you can change up between going for the weapon and going for the shield.


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 Post subject: Re: Single blue just inferior?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2011 8:03 am 
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Ignatius wrote:
Look, lets back away from all the I can do this I can do that BS. It's really not productive and we all know our e-peens are freaking huge, we don't need to prove **** to anybody.

To the OP, practice lots with lots of different styles. If you like single blue, keep at it and be patient. Try everything and don't discount any ideas. Don't get stuck in one way of thinking and most of all have fun. If you get sick of dieing and can't stand it, do something else that seems fun. Fight with anybody who you feel is better than you and try to figure out what they're doing.

Feel free to ask more questions on specifics or styles and we'll try to get our **** together enough to give you some kind of answer.


I mean, if you call that huge...

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 Post subject: Re: Single blue just inferior?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:02 am 
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Slagar wrote:
Ignatius wrote:
Look, lets back away from all the I can do this I can do that BS. It's really not productive and we all know our e-peens are freaking huge, we don't need to prove **** to anybody.

To the OP, practice lots with lots of different styles. If you like single blue, keep at it and be patient. Try everything and don't discount any ideas. Don't get stuck in one way of thinking and most of all have fun. If you get sick of dieing and can't stand it, do something else that seems fun. Fight with anybody who you feel is better than you and try to figure out what they're doing.

Feel free to ask more questions on specifics or styles and we'll try to get our **** together enough to give you some kind of answer.


I mean, if you call that huge...


Oh, they're huge. They're huge.

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 Post subject: Re: Single blue just inferior?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2011 12:57 pm 
Only .3% Short Of Perfect
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Inferior for what? One of the traps a lot of new people fall into is thinking there is one ultimate style that is ---{{{[[[!!! B E S T !!!]]]}}}}---

If there were one style that outclassed all others in all situations, you'd see everyone using it in all situations. Everyone would have the same shield, the same sword, etc. You don't see that because everyone has different abilities and one style might match one persons' abilities but might be death for another.

You also have to ask yourself what your goal is. Are you trying to be the biggest badass that the world has ever seen in a given battle? Or are you fighting this specific battle to learn something? If your goal is learning you should fight with every style. Learn to arch so you can better dodge arrows. Fight with a spear so you know how to kill them. Learn to use red weapons so you can keep your shield from getting destroyed. You'll probably find during the process that each of these styles has its advantages, and then you'll be able to pick the one that is most useful for the given situation.


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 Post subject: Re: Single blue just inferior?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 10, 2011 10:34 pm 
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Single Blue is an AWESOME STYLE. If you're having fun, good; if you're having trouble be sure to change up your grip. Honestly * sword work is my personal favorite style to use. Just know that you're only ever going to be average with the style because of it's limitations but therein lies half the fun; the challenge.
If you've plateaued I highly suggest switching to hand-match your opponent. Be aggressive but don't go berserk and lay off the head shots. lol
I've actually gotten pretty excited about this style in my personal fighting:D
But like I said, you're not gonna be The Bride versus the Crazy 88 or anything when you're just starting out.

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 Post subject: Re: Single blue just inferior?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 10:14 am 
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Really? No obligatory suggestion of excessive amounts of blockstrike yet?

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 Post subject: Re: Single blue just inferior?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 1:26 pm 
Mercenary
Mercenary

Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2007 3:01 pm
Posts: 630
Started Fighting: 0- 2-2007
Realm: Loderia
Unit: Clan of the Hydra
Favorite Fighting Styles: Sword and board
I'm pretty sure I linked that.


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 Post subject: Re: Single blue just inferior?
PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 1:16 pm 
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Joined: Mon Nov 25, 2013 12:23 pm
Posts: 7
Started Fighting: 21 Oct 2010
Realm: Sunspear
Unit: Witherwood
Favorite Fighting Styles: Sword, Archery, Sword and dagger
I've fought almost exclusively single blue since I started, and while I agree that shields can seem impenetrable at times (especially with a skilled wielder), they aren't. Just keep trying, and keep footwork in your mind. If you really feel the need to augment your style specifically for fighting shields, I highly recommend carrying a dagger with you. Daggers are my favorite way to get around shields, just keep their wepon busy with your sword, and give 'em a hug if you can, or just be quick with your stab.

If you're considering the use of a shield, but still want to feel single blue in style, try getting a small strapped buckler. it adds defense without robbing you of maneuverability or a free hand.

Like most others have said, just keep at it. Mastering a single blue sword is the best training you can get in my opinion, even wnen you may end up changing styles.

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 Post subject: Re: Single blue just inferior?
PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 3:08 pm 
Forum Gordon Ramsay
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Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2003 5:10 pm
Posts: 3261
Location: Portlandia
Started Fighting: 20 Apr 2006
Realm: Pyke and O.G. Babylonian
Unit: Catalyst
Favorite Fighting Styles: Acerbic wit and sassy one-liners
Hey Hermes, what's up big guy? I'd suggest checking the date before reposting topics, some people around here get uppity when you necro threads two years dead.

But as long as we're talking about it...

Two years ago I had just come out of a two year break, where the only fighting I could get was at the local University club. It hardly counted as fighting. I'd force myself to fight single, off-hand, or go flo. Around that time I started travelling a lot more, cross-gaming and stuff. I think this was right around when I approached Soth, Kaegan and Arioch on how to fight min red/* sword.
Couple of interesting points; Arioch swore by his having an open hand to manipulate people while fighting * sword. I've used it to some small degree but nothing really worthwhile.

I committed a LOT of time to single sword, and at our last practice, with 20 people, I went the whole day single sword, off-hand. I did pretty ok, even against glaives, flo and a LOT of S&B. I actually sewed up a sash that keeps my right-hand at my side so I don't decide to resort to that hand.

Single sword has translated into me doing quite well with * sword (pretty much everything translates) not to mention flo. I placed 2nd in the flo tourney at CW this year, with Bhakdar telling me I was only a half second too slow. :L
I'm committing more and more time to single sword and seeing huge improvements in my over-all style. One of our vets fought exclusively single sword for YEARS at amtgard parks against Sword Knights and Warlords. He's actually teaching himself how to fight S&B so I have a great teacher in how to fight dynamic single sword.

Anyway, sorry to help necro this thread, **** is boring around here and I'm making huge improvements in my fighting and want to brag about it.

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Overall I believe the article was positive for our image, loosely defining us as a sadomasochist anti-larp. I'm ok with that. http://www.vice.com/en_ca/read/LARP-harder

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But, his sensei passed that style down to him! Literal hours of tradition!


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 Post subject: Re: Single blue just inferior?
PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 3:16 pm 
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Joined: Mon Nov 25, 2013 12:23 pm
Posts: 7
Started Fighting: 21 Oct 2010
Realm: Sunspear
Unit: Witherwood
Favorite Fighting Styles: Sword, Archery, Sword and dagger
aha... I wasn't paying attention, and being on a ds browser doesn't help. I usually have better forum etiquette than that ^^;

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