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 Post subject: Advanced fighting
PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 2:02 am 
Grunt
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Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2008 9:24 pm
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Location: Hell
Started Fighting: 06 Mar 1982
Realm: For Hire
Unit: Apollyons
Favorite Fighting Styles: S/B
So without turning this into some sort of flame war, let me tell you what I have had to learn over the last 5 years to stay competitive. It is well known that I prefer a 42oz blue, solid wood cored strap shield, and little to no armor. Most in this sport would consider this a significant disadvantage. In order to cope with much faster fighters, I have had to develop an ability to predict my opponents moves, a keen sense my opponents attacks, and a heightened sense of range. I use a baiting technique to draw my opponents to attack what I want, when I want. This gives me an edge, as I have designed reactions to those attacks that net me kills. It does not always work, but I have found the benefits of this style of fighting cancel out the inherent speed deficit to my (as some would say) sub optimal gear. I have also used the weight of my gear to unbalance my opponents.

I don't feel as though I am unusually skillful, but there are simply not enough heavy gear fighters out there with these (rudimentary) skills to challenge the uberlight gear fighters. In the end, it helps me that Dag/Bel weaponry tends to be light weight, and the competition is thin at the heavy levels. It means that the lions share of my opponents are ill equipped to handle a skilled heavy weapons fighter.

I would like to help those of you who desire to be different than the crowd, to unleash your inner warrior. To leave the field knowing that had this been real, you would be the hero, you would have killed many, and no one can take that truth from you.

This is a sport that you get out what you put in. Our rules favor the lighter gear, but that should not dissuade you from learning to actually fight, to use realistically weighted gear, to admit that you will lose to more game optimal gear (for a while), but to savor the victories over this handicap. Our rules also allow for the use of realistic gear, if this your path, own it, but don't shove it down the throats of your peers. Enjoy the fact that you can do it, and that your competition has the advantage. Embrace this truth with whatever you need to, I do it by assuming my opponents are not human, but some other humanoid blessed with super strength and speed.

The simple truth is, if you become moderately proficient at fighting with heavy gear (not a small task) you will be in the minority and your opponents wont know how to fight you. Eventually, you will be the superior fighter.

Here is what I don't want you to do:
Don't use heavy gear as an excuse, it is not!
Don't try to change the rules to meet your expectations of opponents.
Don't call light on shots that are unrealistic yet land with a thump.
Don't get discouraged.

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Speed does not equal intense. Realistic, brutal, savage, simulated dark age combat is intense. You want speed, go run track!!

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 Post subject: Re: Advanced fighting
PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 8:19 am 
Hero
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Started Fighting: 01 Sep 2001
Favorite Fighting Styles: Sword and board, Red, Red +back shield,
I would have a legit response to your trolling if you fought, but alas you've been a non-com for the last couple years so everything you say is irrelevant.

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 Post subject: Re: Advanced fighting
PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 10:22 am 
Grizzled Veteran
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Realm: Dunharrow
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Favorite Fighting Styles: Sword Board, Two-stick
Heavy gear isn't a handicap or disadvantage. Spindly arms and a lack of understanding of body mechanics are however.

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 Post subject: Re: Advanced fighting
PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 10:38 am 
Grunt
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Posts: 246
Location: Hell
Started Fighting: 06 Mar 1982
Realm: For Hire
Unit: Apollyons
Favorite Fighting Styles: S/B
Solusar wrote:
I would have a legit response to your trolling if you fought, but alas you've been a non-com for the last couple years so everything you say is irrelevant.

I wonder if it is your refusal to listen to people with decades of experience that caused you to allow me to chump you like a 1st year noob last time we fought. But wait, that was at Rag, so that means, it happened a few months ago, while I was a non com. But hey, ignorance is bliss.

Or if it makes you feel better, good trolling Sol.

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 Post subject: Re: Advanced fighting
PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 11:52 am 
Hero
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Joined: Wed Nov 08, 2006 8:10 pm
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Location: Philly, PA
Started Fighting: 01 Sep 2001
Favorite Fighting Styles: Sword and board, Red, Red +back shield,
We didn't fight this Rag BH. You were too drunk the whole time. Stop lying ;p
Maybe spend more then an two hours in seven days on the field brah.

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 Post subject: Re: Advanced fighting
PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 12:57 pm 
Slayer
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Location: Champaign, IL
Started Fighting: 18 Oct 2006
Realm: Numenor
Unit: The Amyr
Favorite Fighting Styles: Sword and Board
You comin' to Okfest, Blackhawk? I want to see how your theory/ideology holds up where the wild things are. I'm not necessarily saying it can't, mind you, just that I want to see it in action.

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 Post subject: Re: Advanced fighting
PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 2:35 pm 
Grunt
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Location: Hell
Started Fighting: 06 Mar 1982
Realm: For Hire
Unit: Apollyons
Favorite Fighting Styles: S/B
I had planned to go but unfortunately, I am seeing the eye Dr. then. A had retina surgery a few weeks ago and now they have to do lens surgery to remove the scarring from the first surgery. Not sure when I will be back in the fight. I will be able to do some sparring at Badon Hill in a couple of weeks, I'll look for someone there who can report back to you here.

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Speed does not equal intense. Realistic, brutal, savage, simulated dark age combat is intense. You want speed, go run track!!

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 Post subject: Re: Advanced fighting
PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 2:45 pm 
Slayer
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Started Fighting: 18 Oct 2006
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Favorite Fighting Styles: Sword and Board
That's legit, dude. Good luck with the surgery. Don't flinch. :-p

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 Post subject: Re: Advanced fighting
PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 2:49 pm 
Grunt
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Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2008 9:24 pm
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Location: Hell
Started Fighting: 06 Mar 1982
Realm: For Hire
Unit: Apollyons
Favorite Fighting Styles: S/B
While most will agree that range is not an advanced fighting skill, however, there is more to it than the basics. Range is much more about knowing all the aspects of range, not just the range for a quick shoulder pop or super high cross

Range is a function of how long your opponents weapon, arms, legs, lunge, flexibility, ect...is. Assume their fist strike (easily blocked) is 8" shorter than their true range. Inch in till they strike, do it often, till you are sure of their true range (not the one they pretend to have). When you are able to gauge it, you will know. When you are close to "true range" your opponent will feint more rather than throw a full range shot. The best opponents, don't throw full range unless they know it will land!

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Speed does not equal intense. Realistic, brutal, savage, simulated dark age combat is intense. You want speed, go run track!!

Making stick jocks look good since 1982
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 Post subject: Re: Advanced fighting
PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 3:46 pm 
Scout
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Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2009 5:02 am
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Location: Eugene, OR
Started Fighting: 09 Sep 2001
Realm: Tir na nOg
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Favorite Fighting Styles: Set trippin', Rippin', Dippin'.
Slagar wrote:
You comin' to Okfest, Blackhawk? I want to see how your theory/ideology holds up where the wild things are. I'm not necessarily saying it can't, mind you, just that I want to see it in action.

I'm coming to 'fest, Slagar. Let's you and me wreck some ****, righty-lefty style, yah?

p.s. Decades of experience or not, the fighting level at Rag was laughable.

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 Post subject: Re: Advanced fighting
PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 4:09 pm 
Recruit
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Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2011 9:13 pm
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Started Fighting: 18 Jun 2011
Realm: Hellholt
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Favorite Fighting Styles: Dirty lefty S&B
I am seriously considering making a good heavy axe. I have always fought with sch80 pvc cores, and am used to my weapons having more heft then your average bel weapons. its not a disadvantage if you have your weapons properly weighted to their purpose and fully understand what and how they should work; my axe is going to be at least 2 lbs, probably 3 (hand and a half blue) and is going to be topweighted for easier fights with glaives. although longer than my gladius, its going to be my offhand weapon. we have too many 8ft poles in my realm and my current setup is too light to effectively block the heavier ones.


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 Post subject: Re: Advanced fighting
PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 6:59 pm 
Boo Radley
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Dangus wrote:
I'm coming to 'fest

I feel a compulsive need to get my * kicked by you. Learning must be done!

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 Post subject: Re: Advanced fighting
PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 7:10 pm 
Hero
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Started Fighting: 20 May 2009
Realm: An Tir Dearg - Realm Leader
Unit: War Wolves of An Tir Dearg
Favorite Fighting Styles: S&B, spear, longsword
Marrow wrote:
I am seriously considering making a good heavy axe. I have always fought with sch80 pvc cores, and am used to my weapons having more heft then your average bel weapons. its not a disadvantage if you have your weapons properly weighted to their purpose and fully understand what and how they should work; my axe is going to be at least 2 lbs, probably 3 (hand and a half blue) and is going to be topweighted for easier fights with glaives. although longer than my gladius, its going to be my offhand weapon. we have too many 8ft poles in my realm and my current setup is too light to effectively block the heavier ones.


Take down pole fighters with javs, flanking, and other poles. If you're using a gladius, use your scutum and separate them and close the distance 'til you're in their face. Stab, hack, and shield bash until they die. Don't use PVC....you can build plenty heavy weapons on 1/2" round fiberglass and some counter weighting. A pvc axe is going to snap if you try blocking a heavy glaive with it.

OP: heavy fighting can be fun, but it does take a ton of work on this field when everyone's using uber light gear. I admire your desire to be hard core, but the object of games is to win, and, sadly, one wins more with the modern stuff.

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 Post subject: Re: Advanced fighting
PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 7:43 pm 
Slayer
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Location: Champaign, IL
Started Fighting: 18 Oct 2006
Realm: Numenor
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Favorite Fighting Styles: Sword and Board
Dangus wrote:
I'm coming to 'fest, Slagar. Let's you and me wreck some ****, righty-lefty style, yah?


Dude, I absolutely need to get some rounds in with you. I owe you a better showing than what you got last time. Plus, I want my * lunch money back. Glad to hear you're making the trip.

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 Post subject: Re: Advanced fighting
PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 8:02 pm 
Slayer
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wish i could show but im a broke *......rip it up duddddes

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 Post subject: Re: Advanced fighting
PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 8:19 pm 
Grunt
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Started Fighting: 06 Mar 1982
Realm: For Hire
Unit: Apollyons
Favorite Fighting Styles: S/B
Tiberius Claudius wrote:
OP: heavy fighting can be fun, but it does take a ton of work on this field when everyone's using uber light gear. I admire your desire to be hard core, but the object of games is to win, and, sadly, one wins more with the modern stuff.

I am going to agree wholeheartedly with you here.
But for me:
After fighting for a very long time, my desire to win was replaced with a desire to go out on the field and test my ability to fight with realistic gear.
It's like creating a character in Diablo, playing the game, leveling up and beating the game. It's not as much fun to take that level 30 character back to the first level and do it all over again, there is no challenge to it. The game gets progressively more monotonous. So you make a new character and start with a level 1 character on level 1.

Admittedly, I am not the best fighter by any stretch of the imagination, but I have found switching gear to heavy, has rekindled my joy of the fighting. It makes it easier for me to imagine I am a warrior and people are trying to kill me. The sport has changed for me in that way. I enjoy winning, but only when I can imagine that I am killing my opponents.
At first I thought that it would be cool if everyone did the same, but it occurred to me that these are people doing this the way they want, what gives me the right to ruin their fun for my own desires. It's much better for us all to be able to do this the way we want, helps with recruiting and retention.
Not everyone plays this sport to win every exchange, some want to immerse themselves in simulated combat with realistic gear. Sure winning is fun, but killing is more fun, at least for me. As long as the rules allow me to do what I want, and for you to do what you want, why not let each other have our fun?

If I can facilitate the improvement of fighters skill level who want to fight heavy, to the point of being competitive with the lighter gear fighters, I think a great untapped market will open up. Maybe pie in the sky, but whatevs, it's fun, and that's kind of the point to this sport.

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 Post subject: Re: Advanced fighting
PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 8:22 pm 
Scout
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Quote:
I feel a compulsive need to get my * kicked by you. Learning must be done!

That's my whole gig! Come find me at some point and we can work on whatever suits your fancy.

Quote:
Dude, I absolutely need to get some rounds in with you. I owe you a better showing than what you got last time. Plus, I want my * lunch money back. Glad to hear you're making the trip.

Deal! Lunch is on me, this time. <3

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 Post subject: Re: Advanced fighting
PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 9:08 pm 
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Tiberius Claudius wrote:
Take down pole fighters with javs, flanking, and other poles. If you're using a gladius, use your scutum and separate them and close the distance 'til you're in their face. Stab, hack, and shield bash until they die. Don't use PVC....you can build plenty heavy weapons on 1/2" round fiberglass and some counter weighting. A pvc axe is going to snap if you try blocking a heavy glaive with it.



actually I was going to build it off of a wooden axe handle. I am only worried about 2 of the polearms on our field, both wielded by 6'6" giants, and the shield just isnt cutting it to get in on them. any of the shorter polearms are no big deal with sword and board or even single blue, but those two have too much GD weight in the tip to block with a light weapon, and they move me too much when they swing for shields. they are truly ridiculous weapons, and until they get broken or rebuilt the axe should be an excellent defensive too against them. that and axes are rad. :axes:



the polearms are [==]---------=======EEEEEEEEEEE) <-- this, but 8' and they are not bladed. stupid 8' beaters with stabbies. they make no sense...


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 Post subject: Re: Advanced fighting
PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 11:38 pm 
Mercenary
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Favorite Fighting Styles: Sword and board
Heavy fighting is fun and interesting. Blocks are easier, and the speed of your shot doesnt necessarily need to be fast. I've found with my 24oz sword people take shots from a much slower shot than a lighter sword shot of the same speed. Must be because of the more mass.


Alas while I was hoping to get to fight you Blackhawk at Rag I never did get the chance to introduce myself. You challenge of heavier weapons got me thinking and ive recently commisioned myself a sword of realistic weight and build myself a shield of the same.


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 Post subject: Re: Advanced fighting
PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 9:33 am 
Grunt
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Started Fighting: 06 Mar 1982
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Favorite Fighting Styles: S/B
Range and fight tempo can cancel out (somewhat) the inherent speed loss of heavier weaponry. With heavies, I have not been able to fight well at mid range. At mid range, the faster lighter gear negates the blunt force trauma, of the heavy, and is able to throw a barrage of attacks that will eventually get through your defense. A good mid range fighter is the bane of the heavy weapon fighter and MUST be kept at the edge of range with retreats, side movements, shield kicks, overly forceful shield/blade strikes, ect... Your only other option is going in to close range.
At close range the weapon weight is not a factor, or at least not as big a factor as it is in mid range.

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Speed does not equal intense. Realistic, brutal, savage, simulated dark age combat is intense. You want speed, go run track!!

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 Post subject: Re: Advanced fighting
PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 9:58 am 
Veteran
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Dangus wrote:
p.s. Decades of experience or not, the fighting level at Rag was laughable.


I was kinda * you had to take off early. Was hoping to get some sparring in with you since i missed you at geddon, but i showed up on late wednsday and then heard you took off for some family ****. Put me on the list for okfest man ill make sure i find you.


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 Post subject: Re: Advanced fighting
PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 5:44 pm 
Hero
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Started Fighting: 01 Sep 2001
Favorite Fighting Styles: Sword and board, Red, Red +back shield,
Did you do day battles Dangus or just night fights?

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 Post subject: Re: Advanced fighting
PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 5:59 pm 
Scout
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Favorite Fighting Styles: Set trippin', Rippin', Dippin'.
Solusar wrote:
Did you do day battles Dangus or just night fights?

Both.

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 Post subject: Re: Advanced fighting
PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 6:54 pm 
Hero
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Favorite Fighting Styles: Sword and board, Red, Red +back shield,
Cool, I only remembered you in night fights. Bummer we didn't get to fight, but I had a sweet time fighting Moses.

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 Post subject: Re: Advanced fighting
PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 5:49 pm 
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Sword and board
[/quote]

actually I was going to build it off of a wooden axe handle. I am only worried about 2 of the polearms on our field, both wielded by 6'6" giants, and the shield just isnt cutting it to get in on them. any of the shorter polearms are no big deal with sword and board or even single blue, but those two have too much GD weight in the tip to block with a light weapon, and they move me too much when they swing for shields. they are truly ridiculous weapons, and until they get broken or rebuilt the axe should be an excellent defensive too against them. that and axes are rad. :axes:



the polearms are [==]---------=======EEEEEEEEEEE) <-- this, but 8' and they are not bladed. stupid 8' beaters with stabbies. they make no sense...[/quote]

Hahaha I love being talked about :D anyhow I just wanted to add my two sense in. I am only 6'2" but I also happen to be a 300 lbs d-lineman as well so yes I can hit like a truck and my pole is an 8' beater. But the fact is there are sword and boards that can fight me very well and my pole is very well padded, (part of the reason it weight so much) I had to roll it 4 layers to pass hit test. Bottom line is my weapon is a little outlandish but if a guy my size was fighting in a real middle age battle back in the day, he would have a huge insane weapon too. We all play and weild to our advanatage and one of mine is strenght. It is very beatable and you along with others have beat me one on one as much as I have beat you one on one. The fact that I have a pole I can beat sword and board one on one with is not a crime or outside the rules. I'm just don't fight like a typical pole and cannot be fought against like a typical pole. No hate btw you know you're my bro :D

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 Post subject: Re: Advanced fighting
PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 6:35 pm 
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* Dangus, you all famous and ****.

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 Post subject: Re: Advanced fighting
PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 12:17 pm 
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Phesic wrote:
Hahaha I love being talked about :D anyhow I just wanted to add my two sense in. I am only 6'2" but I also happen to be a 300 lbs d-lineman as well so yes I can hit like a truck and my pole is an 8' beater. But the fact is there are sword and boards that can fight me very well and my pole is very well padded, (part of the reason it weight so much) I had to roll it 4 layers to pass hit test. Bottom line is my weapon is a little outlandish but if a guy my size was fighting in a real middle age battle back in the day, he would have a huge insane weapon too. We all play and weild to our advanatage and one of mine is strenght. It is very beatable and you along with others have beat me one on one as much as I have beat you one on one. The fact that I have a pole I can beat sword and board one on one with is not a crime or outside the rules. I'm just don't fight like a typical pole and cannot be fought against like a typical pole. No hate btw you know you're my bro :D


I loled.

Advice for the day: Wait till you fight outside your backyard before getting sized for that bigger hat.

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 Post subject: Re: Advanced fighting
PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 1:17 pm 
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C.G. while imitation is truly the highest level of flattery there is, I must humbly request that you consider both a new name and title. The name you'll find has a most unsavory reputation attached to it that a fine upstanding gentleman like yourself is too refined for, where as the title you will come to appreciate when you have truly earned it within your respective group. I look forward to your swift reply.
Yours truly,
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 Post subject: Re: Advanced fighting
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 3:19 am 
Underling
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Posts: 58
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I dont know if any body mentioned this or not, but one of the problems you don't think about with heavy wepons is it's a lot harder on your joints. if you use them a lot you will probley need a rist brace and a elbo brace.

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 Post subject: Re: Advanced fighting
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 10:08 am 
Underling
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Started Fighting: 13 Feb 2008
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Ikis I can agree with that. but you can avoid such painful injuries by giving yourself a good stretching before you walk out onto the feild.

Commander guts- are you going to WPO? if so I'd love to see what you can bring to the field as far as a Red/Glaive fighter, and ya you should prolly change your name to something new just to save yourself a head ache.

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 Post subject: Re: Advanced fighting
PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 3:29 pm 
Warning: Knows Math
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This thread is old.

Also, Ikis, tell that to 30 year SCA knights who swing 2.5# sticks around all day.

Good mechanics means not stressing your joints in ways they were never intended to experience stress. Heavy weapon slow work on a pell is the answer.


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